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Too small for day old pinkie?

jet_set_willy
06-07-2016, 08:57 AM
Hi, I have recently purchased some new corn hatchlings and was also gifted this Gold Dust Tessera as a pet due to some kinks in her tail.

She hatched 24/05/16 and first shed 02/06/16 and so far is refusing day old pinkies.

Is she too small for day old pinkies and should I cut them up?

http://imageshack.com/a/img921/4992/Xw4ZAb.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/9120/KvlCH1.jpg

Thanks

DollysMom
06-07-2016, 10:14 AM
If she doesn't eat it whole within a short time, you can offer just the head. My housie ate heads his first month with me. Then we graduated to whole pinkies in two pieces for a while, etc. When I was feeding just heads, I kept back ends frozen to use later.

DollysMom
06-07-2016, 10:26 AM
I just found my favorite post from Nanci about getting snakes to feed:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131573&highlight=Feeding

Nanci
06-07-2016, 10:29 AM
She should be able to eat that. Do you know how much she weighs? Has she ever eaten? My first choice, if she hasn't eaten, would be the tiniest red you can find, boiled, served boiling hot.

jet_set_willy
06-07-2016, 01:02 PM
Thanks DollysMom and Nanci. She is 5 grams.

Will try the boiled and let you know how I get on.

axis1
06-07-2016, 01:26 PM
She should be able to eat that. Do you know how much she weighs? Has she ever eaten? My first choice, if she hasn't eaten, would be the tiniest red you can find, boiled, served boiling hot.

Hiya Nanci!!

Since I'm looking forward to the possibility of having some little pips myself soon, I was wondering why "boiling" pinkies works? I've heard of, and read about, soaking them in hot water with concentrated Dawn dishwashing liquid, amongst other tactics that I probably didn't do correctly last year as I had two (2) hatchlings that eventually died after almost 3 months of stubbornly refusing to eat! I HOPE I don't have to go through ANYTHING like THAT ever again! Talk about TESTING one's commitment and love for an animal, ANYONE who has had to force-feed a small hatchling to prevent it from starvation has crossed that invisible threshold which separates the true animal lovers from those who simply like to participate in the hobby of snake-keeping!

Please DO TELL! Is it just as simple as boiling a pinky and quickly offering it to a hatchling? Since microwaving any size of prey is discouraged in most feeding instructions and stickies, I never did recall seeing anything about "boiling" them. But then again, I do admit that I am NOT the SHARPEST knife in the DISHWASHER which is a result of too many things to list here, in addition to a long period of attempting Better Living Through Chemistry!!

Nanci
06-07-2016, 02:56 PM
5 grams is on the smaller side, but perfectly capable of eating a day old pink (a red) if it _wants_ to.

To prepare boiled pinks, which I REALLY like, now, for baby's first meal, you boil water, place the desired amount of pinks in a small container, pour boiling water on them, serve immediately.

In the past, before I got good at feeding tricks, I thought "boiled" was the same as "really hot." It is not. I used to heat pinks, mice, everything, in tap water as hot as it would go, which at my house is 120F or so- hot enough to heat to mouse body temp but not enough to flash cook. I _never_ had any luck feeding "boiled" pinks to a non-feeder.

Then I tried actually boiled cooked pinks and my stubborn feeders gobbled them down like they were the best thing ever. Another plus is they keep a lot better than uncooked pinks- you can leave one overnight and it doesn't rot.

Another good lesson I learned that season was that all dish soaps are not created equal, and that Ivory original liquid is the most-preferred brand (by discriminating hatchlings) but blue Dawn was also well-received, and yellow Joy might also work. If a snake doesn't like Ivory, that doesn't mean it won't like Dawn. You have to try at least the top three.

If you look at the link that DollysMom posted, it goes to a HUGE list of feeding tricks/advice.

Another thing you should perfect before you need it, if you have a bitey hatchling, is tease feeding/slap feeding. This is another thing I was doing COMPLETELY wrong. Everyone calls it "the pinky dance," and that is complete BS for getting a non-feeding baby to feed. What you actually want to do is jab the pink into the hatchling's neck, and it will almost always reflexively bite, at which point you freeze and pray for swallowing. There's a video, for sure in Susan's personal forum, but if you can't find it, hit me up and I'll find it for you. You do not need to use live pinks.

Thirdly, it's been pretty well-documented that some non-feeding hatchlings just aren't big enough, developed enough, something, to have the urge to feed, and if you offer one or two feeding tricks each meal, and the hatchling refuses, so you assist feed it- it will grow and gain weight and eventually go on to feed itself at some point when it matures enough. I've been feeding a hatchling who I took over when it weighed 3.8 grams or so. Just a few weeks ago she started willingly reaching out and biting a pink (with me holding her, and the pink). I'm hoping she's within a few weeks of making the connection to sit in a deli and pick the pink up herself. But it's been about 10 or 11 months of me assist feeding her, taking her on every vacation, just not giving up. If you wait too long to begin assist feeding (I only give them about 3 opportunities to refuse, 3-5 days apart, and I also don't even attempt to feed until a week after the first shed, and some people wait two weeks, to make sure the yolk is completely absorbed and the baby is REALLY hungry) the baby loses too much condition and is impossible to save once you do give in and start assist feeding.

But back to the original baby in this post- I would bet it hasn't been offered any meals at the breeder's, so can stand to have two or three tries with different "tricks" before the owner needs to think about assist feeding it.

To clarify: For the first meal, I offer boiled, in a deli, covered, don't peek for an hour. If the baby doesn't eat, I reheat, and leave it overnight. If the baby doesn't eat, I wait 3-5 days, and then try boiled again, possibly scented with Ivory. If the baby doesn't eat, I try slap feeding to see if I can get it to bite. If it bites, it eats. If it doesn't bite, I might try a different soap, or chicken juice, or something, and leave overnight. Same thing 3-5 days later. If it still hasn't eaten, on the 4th attempt, I'll assist feed. Once I start assist feeding, I still offer different tricks first. I don't feed when the baby is blue. Often, after the shed, it will have gone long enough without feeding and is hungry enough that that is your best shot at it actually beginning to feed. But- just keep at it, don't give up, they virtually all eat eventually, usually in just a few weeks.

axis1
06-08-2016, 07:46 AM
Wow!

Thanx for the detailed instructions Nanci!! I will be keeping them handy, though I HOPE I never get to the point of even "assist-feeding," as I don't intend on becoming a long-term breeder.

Thanx also for the info on the particular soaps, as I have only tried Dawn.

To add insult to injury, one of my hatchlings who perished actually struck out at a pinky after its first shed, but he dropped it and NEVER attempted to eat after that! In retrospect, and after reading extensively on this issue, I believe I offered it food WAY to fast, since I didn't know hatchlings have to absorb yolk for up to a week AFTER they shed! I was amazed that it lasted almost 3 months without EVER eating! Poor baby. I really don't wanna go through that again!

Thanx again!

jet_set_willy
06-08-2016, 07:55 AM
Nanci, many thanks that is superb information :) Iwill update once she feeds

jet_set_willy
07-01-2016, 12:12 PM
Tried everything except the Soap as in the UK don't have them soaps.

I resulted to force feeding after watching this youtube video https://youtu.be/0RWa5e4g0KQ

Only difference is I cut the pinkie into smaller pieces for the first 2 feeds and have only fed the smallest of the day old pinkies.

I have fed her every 5 days and am pleased to say she has increased weight to 7g and length has increased from 9.5" to 10.72"

I know it looks quite a gruesome way to feed the little one and I have to admit I was a bit choked up the first time I did it but I can honestly say she doesn't seem to mind at all and she loves being handled.

To me it's the difference between life and death and this little one is not gonna die.

jet_set_willy
07-01-2016, 12:15 PM
Oh here is an updated pic of the little girl

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/4458/bNm5sN.jpg