Breeding mice...worth the time, money and effort?

[Cody60]

How much $ will you spend preparing a breeder tank, that has say a 1:5 ratio (male:female) or similar?

Will it end up saving you money in pinkies?

How often do you need to clean the tank?

How much does it cost to maintain the tank (shavings + food)?

I really appreciate any input i can get, I'm thinking about starting to breed mice in about 6 months when my dad gets back from working overseas and we buy another corn.

Also, if I forgot to mention anything (if you think of any questions regarding this topic yourself) then please add them :)

Thanks in advance

[KEYNA]

i just started to breed my mice havent had any babies yet but expecting some hopefully next week i heve 3 females 1 male thay do stink i have been keeping them in a rubbermaid tote
I have to clean it out every other day thats the only bad part so far.
I dont no if i have to separate the mother from the others before she has the babies
because i dont know if the other mice will kill the babies.
but in the long run thay will save money

[Krenna]

I have 2 cages 1.2 and the other cage 1.1.

Its saved me alot of money for shipping and buying. I was buying 6 pinkies for 11 dollars. I invested in some dog food and cages and some mice.

I find it well worth the money spent!! So far 34 babies, in 2 months so you tell me:)

[Taceas]

I've got three colonies set up so far: a 1:7, a 1:7, and a 1:4. On any given month, I've got over 80 pinks being born and various numbers of other sizes as well.

Price of Required Things:

I house mine in aquariums. If you're going to use aquariums I would recommend what is commonly referred to as a "20 gallon long". It's a 20 gallon tank that is longer than the average 20 gallon used for fish, and is primarily a reptile/rodent tank. At my local Petsmart, a 20 gal long will run you around $30. I use ESU wire mesh lids, as I find they're a lot more secure and resist chewing. They're entirely metal and the wire is very sturdy to hold up to a 20lb cat sitting on it for over an hour (don't ask). =P The lid runs me around $15 for that size. Or if you can find the 20 long with the built-in sliding lid that locks with a pin, that would be good too.
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/t5/1590560010.jpg

For bedding I buy a large bag of Aspen shavings for around $9. It lasts my 3 colonies and my multiple snakes for over a month or so. Here recently I've been testing out Aspen Supreme Pellets, and so far I like them. It's been 2 weeks since I last cleaned them out and I smell nothing so far. It was around $7 for a 10lb bag. But it does come in larger bags as well, my Petsmart just doesn't stock it.
http://www.petsmart.com/media/ps/images/products/detail/standard/i/in50/in500741_11a65.jpg http://www.petsmart.com/media/ps/images/products/detail/standard/i/inp0/inP034839_1439b.jpg

Water bottle holder is around $2-4 depending on brandname and the bottles themselves can be bought at Walmart for $1 or the cheap SuperPet brand at Petsmart for $.80 (the ones I use).
http://www.petsmart.com/media/ps/images/products/detail/standard/i/inp0/inP032743_13f23.jpg

The food, I buy from a local feeder breeder who gets it from a feed mill that specially makes it for him. I buy a 50 lb bag for around $13. This lasts my 3 colonies for 6 months or more. Or you can buy the blocks from other makers in a pet store. If you choose to feed seeds, I would recommend one that doesn't have sunflower seeds. They're all fat and no nutrition and you end up with mice who laze around and don't breed. The last time I bought L & M brand blocks it was $10 for a 5lb bag. Mazuri is also a good brand I've heard.
http://www.petsmart.com/media/ps/images/products/detail/standard/July04/6707_39d79.jpg

The mice, their price depends on where you get them. If you buy them from a large chain store, expect to pay around $5 each. Pretty hefty if you ask me. If you have a pet store with good quality "pet" mice, they should run you $1 to $2 each. Just make sure you don't buy the feeder mice from the back room and expect them to do good. Most of mine ended up dying within a month and never had good quality babies. They're feeders for a reason, I've found out. Check the local papers for mice, even in my little ole hick town I've seen them for sale every now and then. Another good source is schools. Elementary schools breed rodents in the classrooms, just ask to buy any extras if they have them.
http://www.mainecoon.net/~rain/Snakes/Rodents/Cuddly.JPG

Now to break it down:

Cage: ~$30
Lid: ~$15
Bedding: ~$8 (price between Aspen Supreme Pellets and Kaytee Aspen Shavings)
Water-bottle: ~$1
Water-bottle Holder: ~$3
Food: ~$10-$13 (block diet)
1:5 mice: @ $2 each ~ $12
-----------------------------------------------------
Total ~ $79 for the initial start-up. That price may vary depending on where you get your stuff and mice.

Care and husbandry:

~ If you keep them on aspen shavings, expect to clean once to twice a week. The more humidity you have, the more often you have to clean as it keeps the urine fresher and potent. Dryer conditions allow the waste to dry out quickly.

~ Never ever ever use pine or cedar shavings. The oils in the wood is toxic to small animals.

~ Ventilation is key. Mice and rats are susceptible to their own waste fumes (ammonia). If you don't have good ventilation and fresh air, expect to see a lot of respiratory infections. Sick mice don't breed well.

~ Rubbermaid type containers work in a pinch. But they hold in the moisture and odor, so you increase the amount you have to clean them out and you also increase their exposure to ammonia which has a detrimental effect on the overall health of the mice. Not enough ventilation to be any long-term enclosure.

Other tidbits:

If you have just a handfull of snakes, it may or may not save you money. But when I got past the 10 snake mark, it helped me immensely. I always have a steady supply on hand of the size I want. If a snake decides not to eat one day, I don't have to throw it out, I just put it back to grow up to the next size and use it some other time.

If you can give me how many snakes you own and what they're currently eating it'll be easier to give you an answer as to whether a 1:5 would be too many. To me, I'd rather have to suppliment my supply with f/t than have too many and waste them. I started out with a 1:5 and as my snake population grew, I added colonies and mice as I needed.

When starting a colony, I've found it's best to get all of the same age group if possible. But if that's not feasible, I usually aim for an older male and younger females. When I add a new male to older females they have the potential to castrate him. When they get in fights, the place they inflict the most damage is the testicles. And of course those are kinda vital to breeding mice, wouldn't ya say?

I've not had any need to separate the females from the group when they give birth. Usually all of the other females share in the mothering responsibilities of feeding, cleaning, and keeping the babies warm. Initially you might want to watch the male, as new males not knowing if the babies are theirs, will kill the pinks. If you see that happening, just remove him till the babies are used up. But most of my males will share in the housekeeping of the babies. I even have one that tries to nurse the babies, and if one falls out of the nest, he'll pick it up and put it back. So it's all really individual on their part.

When you get babies, just remember to keep the water bottle filled at all times and food present at all times. Nursing takes a lot of energy and nutrition away from the mother. And if conditions aren't at their optimum, they'll cannibalize their own babies.

I hope that helps you a little bit. If I think of anything else I'll add it in later. Or if you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me. =)

[Cody60]

WOW, Taceas...thanks a lot dude...i havent even started reading the thing and im really grateful :) time to start reading

[Cody60]

i have one corn currently feeding on pinks, but at the time im thinking of starting to breed mice (6 months) i might have 2 corns by then (my dad is plannin on buying one as well)

lets say 10 pinks for each snake each month....so ill be needing 10-20 pinkies a month and i know that you can easily get that many in one "batch" of babies...is there a down-time where the female cant get pregnant? or does she keep goin with the males and poppin out babies like crazy?

[Taceas]

You're welcome for the wealth of info. I was really bored tonight and thought I'd just throw everything out there.

To answer your question...a female, once she's of breeding age (~6 weeks) if kept in the constant company of a male will pop a litter out every month. I've never really known them to take time off, I don't think that's in their programming. =P

[Cody60]

hmm so for 1-2 snakes im looking at about a 1.2, possibly 1.3 ratio of mice to be safe?

[Taceas]

I'd say 1:3.

Depending on the ages of the snakes that you end up getting...you're going to want some variability in the baby size. You don't want ALL pinks for 1 hatchling and 2 yearlings, as an example.

So 3 females should give you different birth-dates and thus various ages to choose from for feeders. Plus more than enough teats for various stages of babies. The bigger, older babies tend to hog all of the nozzles and the younger ones struggle. So 3 females = 30 teats between them. Should be more than enough. =)

[Cody60]

alright, thanks a lot :)

[magick-bears]

Wow Misty at that price even with shipping we would save money to buy our water bottles from you LOL. Those little 4oz Critter Canteen bottles cost us $2.15 and the 8oz ones are $2.68 of course that is with tax but still I would love to find them for $0.80.

By the way all the babies are doing great. I am going to be putting some photos up in the photo section tonight.

Jeff C.

[serafino]

Does breeding your own mice mean you have to feed live?

[Sanebedlam]

This is a very old thread but no you can kill them yourself if you like I hear people use C02 to do this as it is considered completly painless. I am sure someone can give you more info on the C02 chambers and everything.