Disinfected cage concern

I just recently bought a baby corn snake, but I only had one cage available that previously held a crypto gecko. I disinfected this cage and everything in it with bleach for over 4 hours and let it air dry over night, is there a possibility that my snake could have already gotten crypto?

I've taken precaution and I really want to do the best I can to keep it healthy. It just ate for me today. :awcrap:

I personally never would have used that tank or any of the supplies that were used with that sick animal.
Though I don't know much about crypto specifically, it isn't usually good to rely on bleach to kill 100% of bacteria.
I would personally purchase a new enclosure immediately. It isn't worth the risk for the cost of a tank or bin.
In any case, my comment should give this a bump so some smarter people will see it.
Hopefully someone smarter than me will have better advice!

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Great idea to bump this thread there Kayla, because MAYBE someone with a higher intelligence and knowledge of cornsnakes will see this. Unfortunately, I am NOT the sharpest tool in the shed; I actually thought that a Jolly Rancher was a gay cowboy at one time (until I was rudely corrected!! I didn't MEAN any harm and I was like, "Well calm down! I mean, WHO pissed in YOUR Cheerios dude?").

That being said (and the fact that I thought "crypto" was a type of hieroglyphics!), maybe Discoverlight can give us some more details about the snake, such as, How old is it? Has it been eating regularly and is it an appropriate weight for its size? What is its overall health status? Etc.

I don't know how serious this illness is, but if bleach - applied appropriately - can't kill it, then I am probably afraid of it, ESPECIALLY because I can't SEE it!!

BTW, congrats on your new cornsnake acquisition Discoverlight and here's to resolving this issue and hopefully getting to know you and your little sneaky one!!!!

Okay so I used this opportunity to educate myself a bit more on Crypto. I looked at a few sites, and it seems I was correct in saying that bleach was most likely not effective. Crypto is actually very resistant to most types of disinfectant, including bleach.
Here is a link to a website that was easy to understand and had a good amount of info.
http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-diseases/cryptosporidium/

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Here's an article that may shed some light:

http://www.goldengategeckos.com/crypto.htm

And another here:

http://azeah.com/lizards/cryptosporidiosis

From Light To Dark

DollysMom said:

Here's an article that may shed some light:

http://www.goldengategeckos.com/crypto.htm

And another here:

http://azeah.com/lizards/cryptosporidiosis

Click to expand...

Whoa! Thanx for the links Dollysmom, but the sad part about what I read not only shed some light but brought on the DARKNESS!!

Check out one little "fact:"

"Since there is no ‘cure’ for crypto in reptiles at this time, the inevitable suffering and death of an infected lizard can be expected. Humane euthanasia is often the best course of action." - http://www.goldengategeckos.com/crypto.htm

Your efforts are nonetheless appreciated, regardless of discovery. Especially because, without actually reading this bit of particular information, not to mention all of the stuff I DIDN'T KNOW AND NOW DO, my own mind would have REMAINED IN THE DARK!!

Thanx again!!!!! :crazy02:

BTW - AN OBSERVATION!

Just wanted to acknowledge the fact that if I never took the time to chime in to a thread that I had little or no info to realistically contribute to, I never would have discovered this info on a disease that I thought was a code word or a slang nickname for some type of hieroglyphic! So when you see something that you know NOTHING about, it doesn't mean you should just say quiet or always lurking! After all, this IS a forum!!

Just sayin'. (Ya NEVER know what you're gonna get unless ya look for it!!!) - No, that wasn't Yogi Berra, but something I just thought of. See, even I can make up sayings that really don't have any concrete information in t hem!!)

Best bet for cleaning the tank that's come into contact with crypto is hydrogen peroxide used to neat and allowed to air dry before cleaning off residue.

Personally I'd do it at least 3 three times before giving it another clean to get rid of residue from the tank before reusing it. But even then i'd probably let the tank sit unused for at least 6 months before bringing it out to reuse.

I do have a 10 or 15 gallon outside that never held a crypto infected gecko, although im not sure if it'll stress the snake out being moved to a different location. It's really tiny, bought from a pet store.

It's been in the cage for only a week and there is a pretty good amount of substrate (about 2 1/2 inches) from the bottom of the cage that was cleaned. I'll move the snake tomorrow.

It has eaten its first meal eagerly

My concern is, has it been infected in that week it's been in there

There is really no way to know at this point as far as I am aware. Just move the snake and make sure if you have any other reptiles it is as far away from them as you can get it until you do know.
You should probably take it to a reptile vet. They can test for crypto but I don't know how long it takes after infection to show up in tests.

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Discoverlight said:

My concern is, has it been infected in that week it's been in there

Click to expand...

At this point your baby snake is eating and healthy and I'd be happy about that if I were you! (Congrats!).

However, Kayla does have a point and you should just ensure you keep it away from other reptiles and make sure you wash your hands before handling anything else or as soon as you're done handling your little sneaky one. You should also read those articles that Dollysmom so thoughtfully provided links to, as they will otherwise inform you on the myths and fats of this creepy-crypto! For example, I believe that the only way it can get transmitted is through eating an animal that already has it or through its waste (defecation) though to read those articles would be your best bet. Besides, if your snake has it, a vet can't DO anything except euthanize it humanely and you aren't at that point yet and hopefully won't get there. Inform yourself of the symptoms and be aware that sometimes there just aren't any.

Most of all, if I were you, I'd transfer my snake to a different, cleaned-out & disinfected viv and enjoy it while being aware and practicing optimal infection control! Can't go through life worrying about "what if" all the time, no? (My dad, in times like this, would say, "What IF? Yeah, what if birds had pianos up their asses, there would be music in the air!" Think I inherited anything from him?)

One thing I caution people on is reading and then posting opinions without clearly labeling them as opinions. I recommend sticking to scholarly articles written by scientists, vets and other reptile professionals. That's why I posted links.

In my opinion, I would agree that removing the animal from that caging and practicing quarantine is called for. I would read up on disinfection protocols for crypto and use those to keep decor and other things in the new housing as clean from any presumed oocysts as possible. From what I've read exposing decor to heat and sunlight to thorougly dry it could be useful. The UV in strong sunlight wouldn't hurt this effort as my research leads me to believe that UV is useful in combating crypto oocysts.

From what I've read, and in my opinion, dessication can kill crypto oocysts, but it needs to be total dessication (drying). I'm not that sure overnight qualifies. There seems to be differing information as to the efficacy of cholorine. Without knowing how strong a solution of bleach was used from what I read 4 hours was definately on the very short side. In some cases with some methods, crypto oocysts can be rendered non-infective without actually killing them.

Let's hope for the best. In my opinion, reusing housing and decor that has not been disinfected using a known effective method and then drying thoroughly for a much, much longer time than this equipment was is like playing Russian roulette. Many do recommend discarding everything to be on the safe side.

From my reading and in my opinion, Oocysts can be killed or at least rendered non-infective on inanimate objects. They are not impossible to kill. It is just that they are not normally killed quickly or easily wth the normal disinfection methods we as keepers commonly use.

Edited to add: from my reading, especially the CDC recommendation for controlling human crypto in daycare settings I would agree with the 3% hydrogen peroxide.

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/crypto/resources/childcare_outbreak.pdf

Update, the snake threw up the mouse, but It might have been a temperature issue. I'll amp up the heat and try to make it warmer, and try feeding it again in the next few days. :headbang:

There are multiple factors to this regurg, 1. possible crypto already(?) which would break my heart. 2. I had to take this snake from one city to another in 30+ celcius weather and the mouse may have thawed out and when i refroze it it just had bad bacteria or wasn't good, so a bad mouse maybe

and 3. possibly heat. The heat pad gets to about 80F but it seems weaker in the cage because of the substrate and I live in Canada, so adding a heat lamp may increase the temperature to something more ideal.

Oh no. I'm so sorry that happened. Here is the sticky with the regurge protocol:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best. Personally, I wouldn't assume crypto at this point. The observation, moving to a known clean enclosure, and quarantine are precautionary. It is even possible that if the cage had sat dry for a while like several weeks, before you used it, any crypto oocysts were already dead. In this case you know a gecko with crypto had lived there, but how many people buy used tanks and have no idea what was in them before? The thing that keeps them from getting crypto is dessication.

This was the cage that was 'disinfected'


And this is the new quarantine tank.


I'm scared such a small tank will stress it out being moved from something so large, so hopefully it eats for me in the next few days after the regurg. The heat lamp will be on and off to ensure the proper temperatures since it fluxuates in my house and i have to adjust accordingly.

Do not feed the snake for 10 days, and then offer it a much smaller than normal meal otherwise it's just going to regurge again most likely.

Also, yeah... always ALWAYS handle this snake last. NEVER wash its water bowls or tank with a sponge that you plan on using for any other animal. NEVER put anything from its cage into the cage of another reptile.

I fed my snake again, the smallest pinkie I could get my hands on at the store, and it looks like it went down without coming back up. I haven't checked the whole cage yet so I have yet to find any avidence for vomiting which i will probably do tomorrow, but I also amped the heat up on one side and added a lamp for ambient temperature.

She seems to like it when I lightly mist the cage, which i only do about once a week right now, she likes to come out and explore and pop her head out when the droplets come down, anybody else have this happen? It's rather cute.