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Coccidia

DollysMom
11-06-2017, 01:03 PM
As some of you remember, my older corn snake Mandy tested positive for a high number of coccidia on a routine fecal last May. She had lost a small amount of weight, but was eating fine and had no diarrhea. Because she is older I also had routine bloodwork done and everything was normal. The vet recommended and I had her treated with ponazuril. I took her to the vet 3 days in a row and the medication was administered by gastric tube. The treatment was inexpensive and she tolerated it well. She had one loose feces from her first feeding after treatment which I attribute to the treatment. A follow up fecal about a month later was clear of coccidia. A follow up fecal at my request in September showed a few coccidia and since she was otherwise asymptomatic it was agreed that my observation for any symptoms, but no treatment, was warranted.

In October, my two year old Cleo was due for her annual check up. I had a complete physical with bloodwork done because, as some of you may remember, she has what I have dubbed “mystery bumps” that are fluid filled, sub cutaneous, all centered on the same row of scales on either side and only show up when her tail hangs down. They are much less prominent as she grows so that’s the good news. My vet and the vets he has consulted to date have not been able to diagnose them. Every thing else checks out fine. Her bloodwork was excellent. The vet went over it with me in detail, though I can’t remember the details. I just remember it was all good. Sadly, but not shockingly, her fecal showed high levels of coccidia. My reaction was, okay, it’s the prey.

Cleo shows no symptoms of coccidia and is growing well. Since this fecal had been sent to an outside lab and they still had it, my vet requested an ID. It came back as Eimeria. It would take PCR amplification to positively ID the species of Eimeria, and neither my vet nor I feel it’s presently warranted. I could also have the prey mice feces tested, but again not needed at this time. Eimeria is common in mice and less common in snakes. One of the vets that my vet consulted with provided an article about Eimeria in Lampropeltis, so there are Eimeria species in related snakes, but the evidence points to the culprit being mouse specific Eimeria in the prey

In the meantime, in consultation with my vet, I’ve practiced normal husbandry and cleanliness, but have not taken extreme measures. I do practice some basic measures of keeping equipment separate for each snake and definitely practice careful hand washing. I’m fanatic about cleaning up feces. I use the sanitize cycle on my washer and dryer for snake bags, etc. Coccidia oocysts are persistent and difficult to kill in the environment. They take a fecal oral route to infection. I also bought and use a small Bissell steam shot so I can clean surfaces and cage furniture and water dishes more effectively. Steam kills coccidia oocysts. It was pretty cheap and I can use it on a lot of stuff.

Only Mandy and Cleo eat out of the same bag of what started out as 50, 15 to 20 gram frozen mice that I bought in February and started to feed Mandy from in late March and Cleo from in August (they are kept vacuum sealed) . I still have some but am discarding them on the theory that the mice that are infected indicate less than optimal quality prey. Only a few may be infected, but I’m so done with this. Of course folks feeding from this same supplier that don’t do routine fecals would never know. You definitely can’t tell by looking at the mice and there are no symptoms in the snakes. Mouse Eimeria infects mice and passes right on through snakes. Freezing does not kill it.

Of course it is remotely possible that it is not the prey and the coccidia only show up in Mandy and Cleo because they are both corn snakes. Shadow (eastern indigo) had his routine fecal last week and there was no coccidia present. Clyde (cape house snake) had his fecal in May and there was no coccidia present.

I’m sharing this just as a point of interest and education, though input and comments are welcome.

I recommend and encourage vet care even if this may be a case of a “false positive “. Fortunately, with only four snakes it’s pretty easy for me to provide them with routine check ups with a herp specialist. I also understand this is not always possible and appreciate only taking an animal when vet care appears warranted. It’s not like there are routine vaccines like there are for dogs and cats, either.

While I’ve mentioned the mouse supplier in the past I’m purposefully not naming them because I can’t prove it and the mice have not harmed my snakes. Also, only the small adult mice and not the hoppers and fuzzies are suspect. So please don’t ask. This is not about vilifying a supplier with conjecture, even if it is educated conjecture. However, I will say the suspect mice were NOT from Layne Labs which is my go to supplier. I just ordered more prey from Layne this morning.

One last thought. I’m ever so thankful that this was coccidia and not crypto.

jet_set_willy
11-06-2017, 02:55 PM
Glad your snakes are fine and really appreciate the information, thank you :)

DollysMom
11-06-2017, 03:26 PM
Very kind of you jet set willy. It is a long read and I hope it is worth it.

Karl_Mcknight
11-06-2017, 05:21 PM
about the mystery bumps (fluid filled sacs you stated) that Cleo has. Can the vet not draw off some fluid, have it analyzed and tell you what it is?

Nanci
11-06-2017, 06:41 PM
Very interesting.

DollysMom
11-06-2017, 06:50 PM
Thanks for asking, Karl. We could do that. Last year my vet did a fine needle aspiration of one of the bumps and upon microscopic examination found “non specific fluid” and one inflammatory cell. Because the bumps are transitory and were better this year, I didn’t ask for another fine needle aspiration and my vet didn’t suggest it.

If things change for the worse, the kind of analysis that you suggest is certainly something I’ll ask the vet about. Fortunately it’s not super invasive to her but getting enough fluid at this time might be problematic.

DollysMom
11-06-2017, 06:52 PM
Very interesting.

It is. Learned more than I ever wanted to about coccidia, that’s for sure!

Nanci
11-06-2017, 07:02 PM
It is. Learned more than I ever wanted to about coccidia, that’s for sure!

I know a bit about it from my dragon. It's why I quit feeding crickets...

DollysMom
11-06-2017, 07:40 PM
Nanci, I’m so sorry you had to deal with it.

Twolunger
11-06-2017, 10:33 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience with coccidia. I have stressed the importance of a routine fecal exam many times. Still, many of my friends have never had their snakes tested. My own snakes were tested negative for internal parasites until about 3 years ago, when a couple adults were found to have pinworms. I mentioned the name of my rodent supplier to a friend and he advised me that my supplier buys rodents from other breeders to fill some of his orders. I didn't know that, and suspect it is a more common practice than we realize. I raised my own rodents for years, and may have to start again.

DollysMom
11-07-2017, 05:13 AM
Thanks, Twolunger. I appreciate your sharing that. I never thought of a supplier buying from others, either.

As to getting regular fecals, I realize each person’s sitiation is different, as is the size of their collection; but it’s something I won’t stop doing. I have a limited income, and I make caring for my animals a budgetary priority.

I’m in no position to raise my own, and now with the need for a variety of prey for Shadow, I absolutely have to rely on suppliers. I don’t know how some people feed road kill that they “freeze for a few months to kill the parasites”. Coccidia, and crypto for that matter, are not killed by freezing prey.

Twolunger
11-07-2017, 10:42 PM
I dealt with coccidiosis when I raised chameleons and Bearded Dragons. My vet said bleach won't kill the coccidia, so she recommended using ammonia to clean all the cages. Some people use hydrogen peroxide with good results. Mice Direct found salmonella in their rodent colony some years back, and they replaced all the mice I had in the freezer. They told me they were irradiating their mice after the outbreak. I don't know if they still do that, but if so, will that kill the coccidia too? I know some people were afraid to feed irradiated mice to their snakes.

DollysMom
11-08-2017, 09:50 AM
I don’t know if irradiation will kill the oocysts. I can’t remember reading anything on irradiation one way or another in relation to coccidia.