twentyeggs
05-30-2018, 08:49 PM
I have a baby corn snake that will not constrict. Her last shed was about 14.5 inches long.
I have a 2 foot Rosy Boa as well. The Rosy Boa is most likely a wild caught snake as it is indigenous to my area. It slithered up to some construction worker and hung out with him all day, causing him to worry the Rosy was a released captive snake, so he took it to PetCo where I then volunteered to take it. The people at PetCo said they tried for several days to feed it f/t but it was uninterested even though she was obviously malnourished. A PetCo worker stopped by a pet store to bring it a live fuzzy the same day I discovered the Boa, but the other workers were upset after passing it around in the bag and didn't want to feed it. So they tried again that day to feed f/t one more time and the story goes, they dangled the f/t around for 20 min and then left it in the cage for most of the day. Factions formed. The only male worker there (who bought the fuzzy) and one female worker said the snake needs to eat!! The rest of the staff said no. So the guy and the girl worker, snuck the fuzzy out of a tissue box in the back the other workers made for it under a heat lamp.. and then offered it to the Boa. They both said not even a second went by as the fuzzy landed about 4-5 inches from the Rosy, she struck and rolled around all over the cage throwing coils over coils. There was a big drama going on as I arrived to get some crickets, and decided I needed to take that snake away from there. They guy was happy to box the Rosy up and send it away for free.
So I've been feeding live very successfully for about a month when my girlfriend decided she wanted a baby snake of her own. She got a little tan ghost striped corn. However, this snake will not coil. I've been reading on the issue and there doesn't seem to be any consensus as to why. I keep coming to,
1) the snake knows the pinky is not a threat
2) It will start constricting when it gets older
3) it lost it's constricting instinct though generations of C/B and f/t and may never learn to constrict even when it's older,
and
4) why would you want to feed live anyways?!
The most frustrating answer is the last. One, it is not an answer at all. Two, for Gods sake people, we own snakes. They are predators that have killed their meals for over 60 million years as a requirement to survive. Just because you put them behind glass and you have an over inflated sense of anthropomorphism doesn't make live feeding cruel. You act like we own hamsters, and even they will rip apart an insect. I don't want to go there. Leave the live vs F/T argument alone or don't comment... seriously move on now if you are thinking about trolling this thread with it. I am sure there are 100,000 threads where you can express your opinions on that issue, it is not welcome here in my question.
I am interested in why my corn will not coil. I've tried pulling the feeder away from it immediately after the strike, wiggling it, tickling the corn with forceps while it's eating. I gave her a hell of a time last feeding, almost to the point where I though she might see ME as a threat. She didn't even attempt to coil. She also doesn't seem to strike very well either. She will just grab whatever she lands on and try to swallow the mouse tail first or even if it's dead center on the pinky's side.
As to some of the answers I've read, does she maybe think she isn't strong enough to coil? My boa holds onto my hands and fingers like an anchor and can extend it's entire body straight like a stick, while the corn feels like a feather, and if more than half her body is off my hand she can't lift herself up, she will try to go backup, give up, and then drop to whatever is lower. Is it strength?
I do tend to agree with the theory that changing wild animal behavior over several generations does affect permanent changes (positive or negative). If you feed a wild bear they get used to humans, why wouldn't feeding dead food over several generations affect it's feeding response?
Could the captive breeding and f/t food over time degrade it's natural instincts? It makes me worry when people say it will not constrict a pinky but will constrict a fuzzy, I don't want to find out they are wrong with a badass mouse and then have to do an emergency cervical dislocation while she is holding onto the side or butt of a nippy fuzzy. I'd rather switch to f/t than risk that situation. (again keep your f/t opinions to the topic of breeding/instincts)
There are already a few threads out there with this question and a whole bunch of guesses. I am hoping someone can confidently say with real factual information or long term experience in the matter what is going on here.
I'd prefer to feed both snakes live since my Boa will not touch f/t and I simply do not want to go through the steps of converting a stubborn snake. Since I've decided to feed live I plan to only go as high as fuzzies, and then fuzzy rats, maybe stunned pups when she is grown since they will have a hard/impossible time landing any kind of dangerous bite on her accomplished strike and coil. But the corn snake worries me, I am not against feeding f/t to the corn since she is, as of now, dysfunctional, but I would just really like to see both snakes acting like snakes and would prefer to feed them both the same way.
-------------------------------------------------------
Only for f/t trolls:
Forums are here for help and advice. If a subject is not wanted please leave it alone. It really is a shame people cannot expect direct answers to questions without someone injecting their unwanted personal opinions; forcing the thread into a moral debate. If you really cannot help yourself from trolling this thread with information I've asked you not to share. Maybe my complete perspective will dissuade your response. I will ignore anything further on the subject.
I have absolutely no reservation or remorse feeding live, it is nature for both snake and food, so please do not try to convert me. I already look down on, with extreme prejudice, those who think snakes exist upon the concept of deviant animal cruelty. We cannot take the life and experiences of animals and elevate it to a human level. Yes it is natural for us to feel bad when a lions rip out the stomach of a baby buffalo and eat it while it's still alive, alligators dragging around wildebeests by their broken legs, and spiders/scorpions consuming paralyzed lizards/prey. But this is essential for all life on this earth. Survival of the fittest is extremely important for both wild and captive animals (less so for captive but still important). Aside from most domesticated animals like house cats and dogs, humans are the only animals that no longer partake in this necessity due to technology. And there is an entire crate of worms to open in terms of disease and medicine we cause in our species for it. In the wild, weak snakes don't survive and they shouldn't in captivity if you plan to breed them. The creatures lower on the food chain are exactly that, food. Since I am never planning to breed this corn snake, I don't care what goes on in it's captivity. But I do think we should limit, as much as we can, what is changed by captivity, on breeding animals. This opinion, my opinion, forged with a biology degree, will never be changed, ever. Trying is fruitless. Hopefully that staves off any unwanted attempts. Apologies to all for the upfront defensiveness.
I have a 2 foot Rosy Boa as well. The Rosy Boa is most likely a wild caught snake as it is indigenous to my area. It slithered up to some construction worker and hung out with him all day, causing him to worry the Rosy was a released captive snake, so he took it to PetCo where I then volunteered to take it. The people at PetCo said they tried for several days to feed it f/t but it was uninterested even though she was obviously malnourished. A PetCo worker stopped by a pet store to bring it a live fuzzy the same day I discovered the Boa, but the other workers were upset after passing it around in the bag and didn't want to feed it. So they tried again that day to feed f/t one more time and the story goes, they dangled the f/t around for 20 min and then left it in the cage for most of the day. Factions formed. The only male worker there (who bought the fuzzy) and one female worker said the snake needs to eat!! The rest of the staff said no. So the guy and the girl worker, snuck the fuzzy out of a tissue box in the back the other workers made for it under a heat lamp.. and then offered it to the Boa. They both said not even a second went by as the fuzzy landed about 4-5 inches from the Rosy, she struck and rolled around all over the cage throwing coils over coils. There was a big drama going on as I arrived to get some crickets, and decided I needed to take that snake away from there. They guy was happy to box the Rosy up and send it away for free.
So I've been feeding live very successfully for about a month when my girlfriend decided she wanted a baby snake of her own. She got a little tan ghost striped corn. However, this snake will not coil. I've been reading on the issue and there doesn't seem to be any consensus as to why. I keep coming to,
1) the snake knows the pinky is not a threat
2) It will start constricting when it gets older
3) it lost it's constricting instinct though generations of C/B and f/t and may never learn to constrict even when it's older,
and
4) why would you want to feed live anyways?!
The most frustrating answer is the last. One, it is not an answer at all. Two, for Gods sake people, we own snakes. They are predators that have killed their meals for over 60 million years as a requirement to survive. Just because you put them behind glass and you have an over inflated sense of anthropomorphism doesn't make live feeding cruel. You act like we own hamsters, and even they will rip apart an insect. I don't want to go there. Leave the live vs F/T argument alone or don't comment... seriously move on now if you are thinking about trolling this thread with it. I am sure there are 100,000 threads where you can express your opinions on that issue, it is not welcome here in my question.
I am interested in why my corn will not coil. I've tried pulling the feeder away from it immediately after the strike, wiggling it, tickling the corn with forceps while it's eating. I gave her a hell of a time last feeding, almost to the point where I though she might see ME as a threat. She didn't even attempt to coil. She also doesn't seem to strike very well either. She will just grab whatever she lands on and try to swallow the mouse tail first or even if it's dead center on the pinky's side.
As to some of the answers I've read, does she maybe think she isn't strong enough to coil? My boa holds onto my hands and fingers like an anchor and can extend it's entire body straight like a stick, while the corn feels like a feather, and if more than half her body is off my hand she can't lift herself up, she will try to go backup, give up, and then drop to whatever is lower. Is it strength?
I do tend to agree with the theory that changing wild animal behavior over several generations does affect permanent changes (positive or negative). If you feed a wild bear they get used to humans, why wouldn't feeding dead food over several generations affect it's feeding response?
Could the captive breeding and f/t food over time degrade it's natural instincts? It makes me worry when people say it will not constrict a pinky but will constrict a fuzzy, I don't want to find out they are wrong with a badass mouse and then have to do an emergency cervical dislocation while she is holding onto the side or butt of a nippy fuzzy. I'd rather switch to f/t than risk that situation. (again keep your f/t opinions to the topic of breeding/instincts)
There are already a few threads out there with this question and a whole bunch of guesses. I am hoping someone can confidently say with real factual information or long term experience in the matter what is going on here.
I'd prefer to feed both snakes live since my Boa will not touch f/t and I simply do not want to go through the steps of converting a stubborn snake. Since I've decided to feed live I plan to only go as high as fuzzies, and then fuzzy rats, maybe stunned pups when she is grown since they will have a hard/impossible time landing any kind of dangerous bite on her accomplished strike and coil. But the corn snake worries me, I am not against feeding f/t to the corn since she is, as of now, dysfunctional, but I would just really like to see both snakes acting like snakes and would prefer to feed them both the same way.
-------------------------------------------------------
Only for f/t trolls:
Forums are here for help and advice. If a subject is not wanted please leave it alone. It really is a shame people cannot expect direct answers to questions without someone injecting their unwanted personal opinions; forcing the thread into a moral debate. If you really cannot help yourself from trolling this thread with information I've asked you not to share. Maybe my complete perspective will dissuade your response. I will ignore anything further on the subject.
I have absolutely no reservation or remorse feeding live, it is nature for both snake and food, so please do not try to convert me. I already look down on, with extreme prejudice, those who think snakes exist upon the concept of deviant animal cruelty. We cannot take the life and experiences of animals and elevate it to a human level. Yes it is natural for us to feel bad when a lions rip out the stomach of a baby buffalo and eat it while it's still alive, alligators dragging around wildebeests by their broken legs, and spiders/scorpions consuming paralyzed lizards/prey. But this is essential for all life on this earth. Survival of the fittest is extremely important for both wild and captive animals (less so for captive but still important). Aside from most domesticated animals like house cats and dogs, humans are the only animals that no longer partake in this necessity due to technology. And there is an entire crate of worms to open in terms of disease and medicine we cause in our species for it. In the wild, weak snakes don't survive and they shouldn't in captivity if you plan to breed them. The creatures lower on the food chain are exactly that, food. Since I am never planning to breed this corn snake, I don't care what goes on in it's captivity. But I do think we should limit, as much as we can, what is changed by captivity, on breeding animals. This opinion, my opinion, forged with a biology degree, will never be changed, ever. Trying is fruitless. Hopefully that staves off any unwanted attempts. Apologies to all for the upfront defensiveness.