raising feeder rats need info

[suthernsnail]

can anyone here answer some questions for me as far as breeding rats for feeders ? or lead me to an info source thank you suthernsnail

[madamwlf]

What questions do you need answered?? we have a small rat breeding colony.

[suthernsnail]

i'm trying to get started here just for my own supply of snake food though i have 20 some snakes. when breeding rats to feed 20 cornsnakes what is a good # of females to males as far as the rats go. ? i would like to get some stocked up in freezer. right now i have 3f to 1 m i'm thinking i should have at least 3 more f to rotate in the breeding process . meaning give the first 3 females a little break and let the 2nd 3 have the next 2 litters or so. is this a good idea . my daughter says no because even though i will be using the same male for all 6 females when i reintroduce him it will take them at least a month to acclimate before they even breed. that's time lost. is this true.? also at what age can pups be safely removed from mother meaning will her milk supply cause her problems if babies are pulled all at once as 1-2 day old pups? is it safe to remove pups once they start walking with eyes opened will they eat on their own. i did this with the last bunch because i had some real skinny pups in there and thought bigger ones were pushing them out. i just did this last night so i'm not sure if they are eating on their own yet. also can i interbreed like the daddy to a grown female offspring or will this cause deformed babies which means not such good snake food. what are good temps for adult rats and pups? sorry so many questions but this is all new to me and it's a slow and confusing go of it. what is a good indoor litter product because of smell and dust? i've retrieved to just shredded up newspaper after trying several different litters and not happy for the what they cost. rats are in aquariums is this ok ? if there is any other info you can give me please do because as you see i'm full of questions . thank you for replying, suthernsnail

[pcar]

Yes, you will have problems if you rotate females around. If you want to have 6 females, get 2 males, and just have two colonies...1.3 and 1.3. this way, the Males and females will know each other and you won't loose time while they get to know each other after every 2 kits.

Rats and mice don't seem to have problems when you take away their offspring. I have been told that rats lactate pretty much all the time...When you go to a pet store to buy feeders, pretty much all feeders that are still nursing are nursing on rat mothers. Also, Female rats will help eachother out with the nursing while there are babies around. Kind of funny. My mice do the same thing.

If I were you, and you want to stock your freezer, I would take all but 2 or 3 pups from the litter the day or day after they are born. This way, the mother will be more likely to produce again sooner.

I wouldn't interbreed rats or mice as I have heard of some problems with this. Do a search on it. I know that there is a thread in the feeders forum that talks about this.

Hope that there are more people that come around and help you out.

[lockshockbarrel]

I wouldn't put them on shredded newspaper. It's not absorbent. STINKY!
Also, rats don' take a month to get reintroduced. I have heard of people turning their back for a minute when their male and female are both out, or even them mating through cage bars and the female ending up pregnant.

I wouldn't reccomend keeping the males in all the time with the females. She would have back to back litters, and that wouldn't be healthy.

[DAND]

Q:what is a good # of females to males as far as the rats go ?

A: 1.3 You could go 1.5 if you have a large enough tank.


Q: i would like to get some stocked up in freezer. right now i have 3f to 1 m i'm thinking i should have at least 3 more f to rotate in the breeding process . meaning give the first 3 females a little break and let the 2nd 3 have the next 2 litters or so. is this a good idea . my daughter says no because even though i will be using the same male for all 6 females when i reintroduce him it will take them at least a month to acclimate before they even breed. that's time lost. is this true.?

A: You could switch the male but there is a greater chance that he will get his butt beat. The male will want to do his thing but females want to get to know him first. (no putting out on the first date) You'd be better off setting up two groups.


Q: also at what age can pups be safely removed from mother meaning will her milk supply cause her problems if babies are pulled all at once as 1-2 day old pups?

A: I usually wait until they get a rat looking face. When they are young their head/face looks more tapered.


Q: is it safe to remove pups once they start walking with eyes opened will they eat on their own.

A: Like I just said above. Walking with their eyes open is a little early.


Q: also can i interbreed like the daddy to a grown female offspring or will this cause deformed babies which means not such good snake food.

A: I wouldn't suggest it. If you have ever watched South Park, you could end up with a bunch of rats that you could call "Timmy". If you set up two groups you could breed non-related ones.


Q: what are good temps for adult rats and pups?

A: Unlike mice, rats don't seem to care much about the temps. They do "it" reguardless of the temps.


Q: what is a good indoor litter product because of smell and dust?

A: I use pine shavings. There are a number of other products that work well also. They have a processed paper product that looks like grey rabbit food, and there is a product that is cardboard squares that are treated that a friend of mine swears by. I just haven't had the chance to try it out.


Q: rats are in aquariums is this ok?

A: As long as there is enough room. 1.3 to 1.5 would work well in a 29 gallon or 20 gallon long.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[lockshockbarrel]

Pine is harmful to just about all animals' lungs. It usually results in early death from liver disease, when the mouse could have lived for a much longer time. But, it does keep away odor, however I've heard that vanilla extract in their water bottle does the same thing.

[TBurkeIII]

i keep my rat colonies in rack systems with a ratio of 1.2 or 1.3. these rats are kept in the same containers throughout their span of life. i use "woody pet" which is actually horse bedding, that the rats break up themselves. this contains the smell good and absorbs moisture as well, more than just wood shavings. i do add a little bit of wood shaving just for the females to use as nests for their young. i ween the rat pups when they are able to walk and see on their own. if they seem able to reach for food and drink then they are ready to be seperated. i find that if you want to stock your freezer than leave some of the rat pups with the mother. this seems to keep the cycle of her next litter of pups on target. if they are all taken away from the mother at once the mother will not reproduce as quickly. i dont think i answered all of the questions you had. so let me know if you would like me to answer some more. i keep a large amout of rat colonies, and have been for a long time, so i hope to help in any way i can.

Tom Burke :santa:

[suthernsnail]

thanks guys and gals now does all this pretty much go for mice too? and are there any oppinions as to what is healthier for the snakes? thank you gail

[TripleMoonsExotic]

My rat colony is a 2.5 group in a large ferret cage (I would guess 100 gallons of overall space on the 2 floors). They produce 75 - 100 babies every month. I do not remove females from males to give them "breaks" because their can be problems with reintroduction...Usually the females will become aggressive toward the new females or males (in my experience). Within 24 - 48 hours after giving birth, a female rat will become pregnant again (which is why they usually have litters every 4-5 weeks).

My mouse colony is housed in a 20 gallon long with 1.8 adults. They produce around 100 - 150 babies a month. It took a month for them to start producing and NOT eating their babies (I also had to remove my second male). Canabilism is fairly common in new mouse colonies (never had a problem with my rats).

With both of these colonies, all the mummies take care of the babies (unless you have an unusually aggressive, protective female - then she'll steal babies and attack the other rats/mice in the cage - I had this happen with only 1 of my female rats). I use aspen bedding and everything gets changed twice a week to reduce smell. They are all fed Authority brand dog food (available exclusively at PETsMART - all natural, no red dye) and lab block (with a weekly treat of cherrios and gram crackers).

Something you need to consider is that these rodents only have a 2-3 year life span...Every year you should replace the female breeders, if you want your production to stay high. Tumors in mice is very common (I usually find a case every few months), and they should be culled from breeding (and I don't recommend you feed them to your snakes).

[suthernsnail]

what about the baby mice that have already been fed to a snake that was the offspring of a mouse with a tumor but tumor was unseen? also my rats are also in a ferret cage but they are peeing all over the shelves . does a male spray like a male cat if so then my room will soon smell like rat urine. i'm thinking about switching over to mice just because of smaller living quarters for them =easier to clean. right now i have 1:3 with rats. does anyone know what is healthier for the snakes? rats or mice? thanks gail

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I wouldn't worry about the offspring of a tumor-mouse. Once a tumor becomes obvious, I do put that specific mouse down. I have no way of knowing if he/she is suffering, so I do what I think is best. I sometimes have problems with rat urine on the walls (they're pushed up against the wall in my basement), but it's pretty easy to scrub off with bleach. I don't think male rats spray like cats, but don't quote me on that. :) I believe I read that rats are more nutrious then mice.