Supersize corn

[princess]

My friend is in Florida near Miami on a course right now and stumbled across a wild cornsnake that he estimated at around 2 meters (6½') long and 5cms (2") wide. -and he's not the kind to exaggerate on these things!! This must be a real freak. From what I've heard, if they hit 180cms they're exceptional and in Florida they're generally smaller. -can't wait to see the photos when he gets back! I don't get a chance to go field hunting her in Sweden so I'm insanely jealous of his find!
Adèle

[jzal8]

post those when u get them. those are photos im psyched to see

[Marshall_P]

Yeah, that sounds like a huge one, see if you could scan those & post pics of it, we'd all love to see them I'm sure! Marshall P..

[mbdorfer]

Wow, that's big
I'm in Pinellas Co. Florida on the west central coast and we have some big corns here, but a six footer is uncommon.
Can't wait to see it

[InSaNe_penguin]

holy !!!!!!!!!! i wonder what it eats... sheap? small dogs possems.. small children...

[Marshall_P]

Just thought I'd show this one off...

[reptile_addict]

Nice corn, Whats the length. I also noticed the guns in the back, do you hunt? I do a little bit of hunting my self

[CrazyCorn]

I road collected a 5 1/2ft Gravid corn recently. I still have her waiting for her to drop eggs.

[magick-bears]

I road collected a 5 1/2ft Gravid corn recently. I still have her waiting for her to drop eggs.
Do you have a photo of her? I would be interested in hatchlings if you are willing to ship.

~Jeff C.

[CrazyCorn]

Don't have a photo, but I will get one with in a few weeks, we will see on shipping.

[CrazyCorn]

Big mama dropped 17 eggs yesterday morning. I am slow cooking them at 82F so it will be about 65-75 days before they come out.

[KRIZ]

Princess,
any luck with those pictures from your friend?

[princess]

Nah, I think we forgot about it!
He's been back from Florida for months now and we still haven't seen photos at all!

I'll see if I can get onto it next time I see him but that won't be for quite a few weeks

[colinmcc]

Must be something about amels. Got the wife to take a quick pic of Cyril when he was out for his dinner tonight. He's not quite straight, but as straight as I could get him without having to pull at each end!

Reckon fully stretched out, nose to tip of tail, he's just nudging 5 1/2 foot. He's about 14 and a dad MANY time over. :)

http://tinypic.com/66hl76

[CAV]

Bless ya, it is because Guinness is in that house. The nectar of the Gods I tell you! :cheers:

[Jynx]

hey we give it to pregnant mares with their grain. It works :)

[OCFinfan]

I road collected a 5 1/2ft Gravid corn recently. I still have her waiting for her to drop eggs.

I have been reading the posts in this forum for a few months now, and I have a question. Doesn't anyone out there have a problem with capturing and keeping wild snakes, rather than just taking a picture of them and then letting them go about their lives so maybe others can share in their beauty? To say nothing of the fact of completely decimating a species from their habitat. So many in here will bash someone for not using the "correct" substrate, or getting pissy with someone for not having the humidity perfect, etc., yet noone seems to care about a kid collecting a gravid snake. I have reread this thread numerous times, and I finally have to say something. Snakes are a wonderful animal, I have had them for pets all my life, but always snakes that have been bred in captivity. I have encountered numerous snakes in the wild that I yearned to take home, but the thought of what i was doing to the species, along with the thought of denying others a chance to see these gorgeous creatures quickly brought me back to reality.
I have a few more issues that irk me but this was the most offensive. So go ahead and bash away at me now. I will be quiet again as I sit back and watch people that have had a snake for a week giving advice, watching posts of people getting excited about a hatchling eating out of their hand without any negative posts, etc.

One more thing...a freakin GRAVID FEMALE!!!!!!!!! And the response to this post was an inquiry into the purchase of one of the hatchlings!!!!! Thank god I have my 2 corns in a tank on 1 side of me, my 2 sinaloan milk snakes across from me, and my calif king poking his head out from under his log looking my way to relax me, cuz my blood is starting to boil.

[Serpwidgets]

Yes, the corn population is being decimated by field collectors.

Bahhhahahahaha!!!!! :laugh01:

[Joejr14]

I have been reading the posts in this forum for a few months now, and I have a question. Doesn't anyone out there have a problem with capturing and keeping wild snakes, rather than just taking a picture of them and then letting them go about their lives so maybe others can share in their beauty?

Why yes, I believe some do. If you'd use the search feature you would see that this topic has been debated quite readily, and has been heated at times.

To say nothing of the fact of completely decimating a species from their habitat.

Wut? The wild caught adult you're flipping out about was captured in Florida----there are PLENTY of cornsnakes in Florida. Rest assured, you do not need to worry about them being decimated because a few people keep a few wild caught specimins.

So many in here will bash someone for not using the "correct" substrate, or getting pissy with someone for not having the humidity perfect, etc., yet noone seems to care about a kid collecting a gravid snake.

Why would we?

I have reread this thread numerous times, and I finally have to say something. Snakes are a wonderful animal, I have had them for pets all my life, but always snakes that have been bred in captivity. I have encountered numerous snakes in the wild that I yearned to take home, but the thought of what i was doing to the species, along with the thought of denying others a chance to see these gorgeous creatures quickly brought me back to reality.

So do tell me, just how do you think you have that captive bred snake as a pet. Do you think that many years ago some snake just appeared in captivity? I guess you think it's a terrible idea to take some wild caught snakes and strengthen the gene pool, right?


I have a few more issues that irk me but this was the most offensive. So go ahead and bash away at me now. I will be quiet again as I sit back and watch people that have had a snake for a week giving advice, watching posts of people getting excited about a hatchling eating out of their hand without any negative posts, etc.

Okay!!!

One more thing...a freakin GRAVID FEMALE!!!!!!!!! And the response to this post was an inquiry into the purchase of one of the hatchlings!!!!! Thank god I have my 2 corns in a tank on 1 side of me, my 2 sinaloan milk snakes across from me, and my calif king poking his head out from under his log looking my way to relax me, cuz my blood is starting to boil.

You do that, but grab some ice first. Again, what's the big deal about a gravid female? Those eggs have a much better chance of hatching and surviving with him than they do in the wild.

[OCFinfan]

1.wut? The wild caught adult you're flipping out about was captured in Florida----there are PLENTY of cornsnakes in Florida. Rest assured, you do not need to worry about them being decimated because a few people keep a few wild caught specimins.

Thats EXACTLY what people used to say about many species here in Calif. Case in point is the rosy boa; one of the prettiest snakes there are but because of so many people capturing them, they are next to impossible to find. California Mountain king is another..the list goes on and on. How about everybody go to Florida on a vacation, and grab us one of these plentiful corns...we will see how much longer they are there. But according to your mentality, I am sure if its not on the endangered species list, fair game.

2.So do tell me, just how do you think you have that captive bred snake as a pet. Do you think that many years ago some snake just appeared in captivity? I guess you think it's a terrible idea to take some wild caught snakes and strengthen the gene pool, right?

Yes, I do think its a terrible thing. Do you have any idea how many corns are in captivity??? There is no need to add wild specimens. Just take a count of how many corns are owned by the people that read this forum.


3.You do that, but grab some ice first. Again, what's the big deal about a gravid female? Those eggs have a much better chance of hatching and surviving with him than they do in the wild


Why do you think a snake lays so many eggs? So maybe 1 will reach sexual maturity.

Keep thinking the way you do and make sure you collect all the snakes you can, because thats the only way your children or your childrens children will see one live. Ignorance must be bliss

[Susan]

How about everybody go to Florida on a vacation, and grab us one of these plentiful corns...we will see how much longer they are there.
Easier said than done. I live in Florida and corns are plentiful, but just try to find one! I got lucky and found a wayward hatchling 10 years ago that would probably not had survived considering when and where she was found. She produced over 135 babies for me. Now go ahead and sue me for endangering the species!

[Serpwidgets]

How about everybody go to Florida on a vacation, and grab us one of these plentiful corns...we will see how much longer they are there.And if any of your post had any basis in reality, that would mean something.

[OCFinfan]

I think there is a HUGE difference between catching a "wayward" hatchling that probably wouldnt have survived compared to a gravid female. And I am glad it has produced for you. Maybe having bred and sold over 100 will save that many in the wild. But I did look at your website, and it seems you like the "wild caught" corns as well; you mention 1 wayward hatchling, but I see quite a few more of your breeders that are wild caught. Maybe you would have been happier with a gravid female rather than a hatchling, but just dont want to admit it. Hypocrisy rules in here.

[Susan]

Excuse me? Where are you finding all these wild-caught snakes on my site? I only have the one. Two of my other breeders were bred and born in captivity from a pair of wild-caughts owned by someone else. Every other snake on my website is captive bred and born. I believe an apology is in order here!

[OCFinfan]

And if any of your post had any basis in reality, that would mean something.

Serp, I gave you reality in my examples. If you have anything insightful to say other than a chance to bash, feel free. If not, then I just consider the source.

[Joejr14]

Geez Susan, you DECIMATED the wild population of over 130 cornsnakes! How selfish of you!!!!

[jazzgeek]

Maybe you would have been happier with a gravid female rather than a hatchling, but just dont want to admit it. Hypocrisy rules in here.And perhaps you'd have been happier if she said what you WISHED she would "admit". But you'd rather imply instead of dealing with what she DID say.

Thus, it begs the question. Just whose hypocrisy are you referring to?

Ignorance must be blissThen you must be happier than a crackhead in the Columbian hills.

regards,
jazz

[OCFinfan]

Excuse me? Where are you finding all these wild-caught snakes on my site? I only have the one. Two of my other breeders were bred and born in captivity from a pair of wild-caughts owned by someone else. Every other snake on my website is captive bred and born. I believe an apology is in order here!

look at your first couple of breeders and look at the parents......all wild caught. There are at least 3 right off the top. I dont feel I need to apologize when my proof is there. If I am wrong, I will be the 1st to apologize

[Susan]

Hey...it says "PARENTS are wild-caught" NOT the snakes I own! "Norma" is the only wild-caught...the hatchling I found 10 years ago. "Blotchy Half Stripe" was bred and born in captivity. There are NO OTHER from even wild-caught parents on the first page...seems like you can't even count. The only other one I own from wild-caught PARENTS, but BRED AND BORN in CAPTIVITY is "Broken Stripe 8"...in Gallery #3.

Now I'm waiting...

[OCFinfan]

And perhaps you'd have been happier if she said what you WISHED she would "admit". But you'd rather imply instead of dealing with what she DID say.

Thus, it begs the question. Just whose hypocrisy are you referring to?

Then you must be happier than a crackhead in the Columbian hills.

regards,
jazz

I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild. And do you always jump in and compare someone to a crackhead when you havent presented your beliefs on the subject? Put out your beliefs for our judjment before you judge, unlike children

[OCFinfan]

Hey...it says "PARENTS are wild-caught" NOT the snakes I own! "Norma" is the only wild-caught...the hatchling I found 10 years ago. "Blotchy Half Stripe" was bred and born in captivity. There are NO OTHER from even wild-caught parents on the first page...seems like you can't even count. The only other one I own from wild-caught PARENTS, but BRED AND BORN in CAPTIVITY is "Broken Stripe 8"...in Gallery #3.

Now I'm waiting...

No need to wait, I apologize.

[Serpwidgets]

If 300 million people all jumped into the ocean at the same time, it would cause a tidal wave that could kill tens of thousands of people. Therefore, anyone who swims is a mass murderer.

Whatever. Keep reaching, dude.

[Susan]

Accepted...

[OCFinfan]

If 300 million people all jumped into the ocean at the same time, it would cause a tidal wave that could kill tens of thousands of people. Therefore, anyone who swims is a mass murderer.

Whatever. Keep reaching, dude.

I am stating my opinion on capturing wild snakes, and you have this as a reply?????? dude, keep sitting there thinking what a clever response that was and hope for everyones confirmation that "you da man!!!!"

[Serpwidgets]

No, you are not just stating your opinion on catching wild snakes. You are stating your opinion that everyone who has any kind of involvement with any snakes that are wild caught is evil. You are also stating your opinion that anyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant.

If field collecting is decimating the population, then why is it that corns are not on the endangered list? Why is it that corns are still plentiful? I guess the people who are currently decimating the population aren't doing a very good job of it.

[OCFinfan]

No, you are not just stating your opinion on catching wild snakes. You are stating your opinion that everyone who has any kind of involvement with any snakes that are wild caught is evil. You are also stating your opinion that anyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant.

If field collecting is decimating the population, then why is it that corns are not on the endangered list? Why is it that corns are still plentiful? I guess the people who are currently decimating the population aren't doing a very good job of it.

I never said anyone was evil. And I never said people that disagree with my opinion are ignorant. And FYI, EVERY animal that is either extinct or endangered was at one time plentiful. And just to reiterate what I have previously said, I think there is a HUGE difference in capturing a snake that obviously doesnt have a chance, like Susan;s wayward hatchling, compared to a gravid female. Now please dont put words in my mouth again

[DdotSpot]

I never said anyone was evil. And I never said people that disagree with my opinion are ignorant. And FYI, EVERY animal that is either extinct or endangered was at one time plentiful. And just to reiterate what I have previously said, I think there is a HUGE difference in capturing a snake that obviously doesnt have a chance, like Susan;s wayward hatchling, compared to a gravid female. Now please dont put words in my mouth again

Wow, you've made QUITE a first impression with your first 11 posts...

That statement proved absolutely nothing except that all animals that have gone extinct, USED to be alive...uhh yeah...

So, just a question for you. Do you feel that the population of corn snakes has DECREASED since "we" started "catching" them? Or increased?

[OCFinfan]

1. Pituophis melanoleucus mugitus Florida pine snake
2. Nerodia fasciata taeniata Atlantic salt marsh snake
3. Stilosoma extenuatum Short-tailed snake
4. Storeria dekayi victa Florida brown snake
5. Tantilla oolitica Miami black-headed snake; rimrock
crowned snake
6. Thamnophis sauritus sackeni Florida ribbon snake

True, there are presently no corn snakes on the list, but I wonder how many of these might be caught and kept by people "herpin" for corns, or have their habitat destroyed by these same people, possibly without them realizing it. This is the point I am trying to make. There are many other reasons for not keeping wild snakes, for instance parasites, diseases that might be passed onto captive bred snakes, to name a few. I try and make my opinions and beliefs based on facts that I am willing to present. If anyone out there can make a valid argument for keeping a gravid snake I am willing to listen. You slam me but present nothing other than rhetoric.

[jazzgeek]

I believe that you are, at base level, a troll. You use phrases like "unlike children", "ignorance must be bliss", "Then I just consider the source", et al, as the final lines of your (for lack of a better word) arguments in order to give them, or yourself, validity.
I believe that you don't know the difference between a discussion and a "meta-discussion". I have every legitimate right to comment on faulty logic, conclusions based on emotion, and unsound reasoning without even mentioning the subject at hand. Most Philosophy departments at any reputable university will offer a course in this analytical process. It's known as "Logic".
I believe that you're a master - no, make that a journeyman - of diversion in argumentation. I respond as to what you've implied instead of what was said, and your response is:I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild.Be that as it may, it did not address my point - that being, your assertion of:Maybe you would have been happier with a gravid female rather than a hatchling...being an implication instead of dealing with what Susan did say: I live in Florida and corns are plentiful, but just try to find one! I got lucky and found a wayward hatchling 10 years ago that would probably not had survived considering when and where she was found. This technique does not directly respond to the point(s) originally made. I concluded by posing a question to you: Thus, it begs the question. Just whose hypocrisy are you referring to?That's diversion. As of this post, the question, albeit hypothetical, remains unanswered.
I believe that you can't discern the difference between a simile and a veiled insult. To wit:Ignorance must be bliss would be the insult, not directly to the person, but certainly extraneous to the argumentative process. My response: Then you must be happier than a crackhead in the Columbian hills. refers to the state of happiness ("bliss"). Thus you weren't being compared to a crackhead. A simile was drawn comparing your blissful ignorance to that of a crackhead in Columbia.
These statements of belief above have nothing to do with the issue at hand. However, they remain statements of belief. Now, onto the issue concerning w/c cornsnakes:

To say nothing of the fact of completely decimating a species from their habitat.You've got it "bass-ackwards". The primary, and most comprehensive threat to the wild corn population (and the population of ANY species, imho) is not one of "increase of harvest" but rather, LOSS OF HABITAT. Rich Z recently started a thread of how other field herpers he has seen can devistate an area by simply not "putting it back the way you found it". Adding to that, a huge amount of habitat of Florida corns has been paved over for decades; yet the species continues to thrive. Look at it this way - here in Wisconsin, the "collection" of whitetail deer during hunting season has "decimated" the population to such a degree that a) you've been able to shoot a doe for decades now (with a antlerless permit, of course - and the number of those permits issued increases yearly); b)the length of some hunting seasons has been extended because of the numbers of available deer has continued to increase; and c) the whitetail population continues to not just survive, but thrive. The state DNR estimates the population to be at record levels. This is all because of the relative stability of habitat here.
What it boils down to is this: loss of habitat is a greater threat, by an exponential degree, to the corn snake population than field collection EVER will be.

Now, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION. This post is about to end without any type of passive/aggressive inflammatory comment. :)

regards,
jazz

[Serpwidgets]

If anyone out there can make a valid argument for keeping a gravid snake I am willing to listen. You slam me but present nothing other than rhetoric.Why? Because I might want to.

There is no need to present a valid argument, because you have the burden of proof here. It is YOU who is going around telling people that the way they enjoy their hobby is wrong. It is YOU who is running around telling everyone else how to live their lives, as if it is any of your business. It is YOUR responsibility to first establish that it in fact IS harmful in some way. You have not presented anything other than fallacious reasoning and personal attacks.

[OCFinfan]

Wow, you've made QUITE a first impression with your first 11 posts...

That statement proved absolutely nothing except that all animals that have gone extinct, USED to be alive...uhh yeah...

So, just a question for you. Do you feel that the population of corn snakes has DECREASED since "we" started "catching" them? Or increased?

I dont have any facts to support this, but I will offer this; I believe the population of captive corn snakes has dramatically increased. And I think you could imply that if we are catching wild snakes, especially gravid ones, then the wild population would be decreasing.

[jazzgeek]

First:
Keep thinking the way you do and make sure you collect all the snakes you can, because thats the only way your children or your childrens children will see one live. Ignorance must be blissThen:
And I never said people that disagree with my opinion are ignorant.Busted.

regards,
jazz

[OCFinfan]

You dont finish your post with a derogatory comment, you start with it. I do appreciate the obvious thought that went into your post, jazz. However, all I was trying to do was state my opinion on a topic, and it quickly branched into hypotheticals, and in your instance, philosophical thoughts. I found your comparison to the deer in your area a valid point. And I thank you for stating your opinions, even though you still felt the need for name calling (troll). Yes, the corns are exponentially threatened by our destruction of their habitat, but I honestly believe that capturing wild snakes is ultimately harmful to the species in addition to the obvious perils they face every day. So, think of me how you want...I am holding true to my beliefs. I just cant figure out how a whole group of people that obviously share the same love for snakes wouldnt want to try and do what could only be beneficial to them in the long run, and that is let them be and prosper. Is there really a need to capture a wild snake when you can go to the pet store and see a hundred of them stored and racked on a shelf in tiny cages?

[Serpwidgets]

I dont have any facts to support thisThat's exactly the problem here. You are telling people how they should or should not practice or enjoy their hobby, and that they are bad for doing so outside of the parameters you have arbitrarily chosen for them, without presenting any reasoning behind how it is any of your business to begin with.

[Hurley]

First off - a statement of what I personally believe regarding wild caughts:

I don't oppose the collection of wild caught specimens in moderation. I don't personally own a wild caught, but if there was something to be gained by adding a wild caught to my collection (after proper quarantine and treatment for any parasites, of course) then I wouldn't be against it.

Potential pro's of wild caughts (if you will):
- New blood for the breeding program
- The wild caught has some characteristic or potential color/pattern morph that can be explored to bring something new to the captive population (size, color, pattern, head shape, etc.) that is considered beneficial by the person taking the wild caught
- Locality buffs
- Sentimental value such as having a corn originating from the area you are in, or as a reminder of a successful herping tour, and others.

Are all of these pro's to ME? Not really, but they all are things that are important to other people in the hobby at some point. I believe they are all valid reasons to keep a wild collected specimen in a species that is plentiful in nature.

Con's of wild collecting:
- "The decimation of nature."

The problem with this thought is that it is not a fact, it's a hypothesis.

It's been brought up that habitat distruction plays a huge roll in limiting the corn's range. I agree that this is most likely the biggest contributor to any potential decline in corn snake numbers in the wild. I would like to see some studies on corn populations to know if they have indeed declined, stayed the same, or increased.

Believe it or not, corns can do very well on the edges of human population. Humans make tons of edible garbage. Edible garbage breeds tons of rodents and birds and bugs (which feed anoles, too). More feeder animals means more nutrition and potentially an increase in survivability of corns in the area. You might think there would be less habitat for egg laying, but then again, corns are pretty resourceful. Who was it that had a gravid female escape in their house and a few months later had a sudden invasion of hatchling corns? Predator influence near civilization...I don't know. Probably less predatory birds near civilization, but more feral cats. It would be an interesting study. OK, sorry for the rambling tangent, I'll get back to the topic.

What we don't know is the impact of wild collecting on the wild populations of corns. The simplest view would be Herper A takes out X number of corns from the wild. Those animals and their niche and the babies they would have produced are gone forever and the corn population will never be the same. I have a real problem with this view because nature just isn't that black and white. When you remove something from nature, a niche is left and will be rapidly filled. If I take out a gravid snake and her hatchlings, does that really decrease the number of yearlings next year? I very much doubt it. If the area is in homeostasis and you remove one member, that leaves an area of more resources for other hatchlings that may now survive when they would have starved before...or it may mean faster growing hatchlings where they would have barely maintained before.

I don't know if corns resemble the white tailed deer in that they need population control to decrease competition for limited resources. I don't know if field collecting is making any impact in the wild numbers of corn snakes out there, but I'm very skeptical. I will say that I would encourage anyone who field herps to leave the area as you found it, meaning put the overturned piece of tin back where it was, replace the rock you moved, pick up your garbage...but I can't condemn people for field collecting, especially in the face of no evidence that it is harmful to the wild population as a whole and in fact potentially could be beneficial. If I personally don't believe in bringing in wild caughts because there are plenty in captivity, I still have no right to condemn someone who wishes to.

One could mention the sideline to this of people pulling wild caughts, raising up a couple clutches, selecting some stock and releasing the parents and most of the other hatchlings back where they came from...but this brings up a whole nother debatable issue, what with potential introduction of disease to wild populations, over populating an area that can't support the increased numbers, etc. I'll leave that for another thread. :)

Lots of food to chew on in this debate. There is no black and white here, it's opinion, hypothesis, and view at this point. We can argue views all we want, but until the studies are brought to light, we're not dealing with any fact here.

[PssdffJay]

I dont check the site for one day and look at what i miss!!!

Oh man, where to start...I make stupid comments a lot and I am usually on the wrong side of debates, but dude... what can I say...

Well OCfinfan... if you are so against capturing wild snakes to breed for captivity and in a sence almost insurring their survival, even if it is only in captivity, then you yourself are a hypocritical. YOu have no right to insinuate that someone else is a hypocritite!!

If you are so against it then I say let free your 2 corns, your 2 sinaloan milk snakes, and your calif king out into the wild. See how long they survive the elements of birds, oh, wait, they eat snakes right... cars, they can run over snakes too if I am not mistaken and countless other elements that, oh wait, thats right... with probably F_ING kill them too!! MORON!!!!

And for the whole endangered species list... come on, your 39, you should have at least a little common sence and intelligence!! Whales are on the endangered species list, wanna know why... CAUSE PEOPLE FREAKING HUNTED THEM!!!!!!!! Apes are on the list too, wanna know why they are... CAUSE PEOPLE FREAKING HUNTED THEM TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not to emntion tigers, rhinos, pandas, marine turtles, elephants... can you guess why they are all on the list too... yup! CAUSE PEOPLE FREAKING HUNTED THEM TOO!!!!! Why do you think they are protected now!!! Or bread in captivity, to ensure they survive!!

Now, I am new to snakes myself and I couldnt tell you why or how there are so many snakes on the endangered species list but i can take a guess... CAUSE THEY WERE FREAKING HUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boots, belts, other overpriced accessories... But when was the last time you heard about people going out and hunting corns... still waiting... yeah, thats what I thought!!! If anything, we are saving the species by breeding them and keeping them and stopping the harsh elements of our cruel world from killing them. Sure we play a part with construction and desecration, but I dont hear you b*tching about that now. Are you going to go on a construction forum and yell at them for building because amazingly enough, us humans like to live in buildings and have homes and drive cars on paved roads...

Oh, and about the gravid female and you saying that they lay so many eggs so that one may survive to breed on its own... lets say only 10 eggs hatched after being captured and cared for... umm, 1 survivor or 10... lets do the math... lets say that in one year, each snake again only laid 10 eggs for simplicity... the only one in the wild that survived laid 10 and lets keep your optimism and only 1 survives... hmmm, now you have 2 snakes... But lets say the 10 in captivity each have 10 offspring on their own that survive... hmm, i don't need a calculator to see that we now have 100 snakes... so in review, lets compare, 2 snakes, 100 snakes... but of course, your're right, lets just keep the 2 and see how fast they dissappear...

Oh yeah, and if the california king snake is so scarce because of people capturing them... where do you think yours came from? Hmm? I guarantee that at one point in time, your snake had relatives that were captured from the wild... still waiting for you to free yours though... let me know when you do so I can grab a tissue cause it will be a sad moment! :cry:

Lets see, what other contradictory and not intelligent things did you say... Quote: "I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild." Still waiting to hear about your release party for your snakes...

Quote: "And FYI, EVERY animal that is either extinct or endangered was at one time plentiful." Yeah, CAUSE THEY WERE FREAKING HUNTED!!!! NOT CAPTURED TO BE BREAD IN CAPTIVITY IN THE PROBABLY HUNDRES OF THOUSANDS EACH YEAR!!!!!!!!!!! HUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seeing a pattern yet?

Quote: "And just to reiterate what I have previously said, I think there is a HUGE difference in capturing a snake that obviously doesnt have a chance..." So what about the other hatchlings that dont survive to adault hood that we were talking about earlier? Are they not worth saving cause according to you they dont have a chance??

Quote: "I dont have any facts to support this, but I will offer this; I believe the population of captive corn snakes has dramatically increased. And I think you could imply that if we are catching wild snakes, especially gravid ones, then the wild population would be decreasing."

No facts you say, but you are certain enough to imply that the wild population are decreasing b/c of catching wild snakes, "especially gravid ones". So what about all the other gravid snakes out there that are better at hiding from humans and are able to lay their eggs. Granted, we will never be able to give an accurate number to how many corns are left in the wild but still if captive corns are increasing we better be careful that corns dont go extinct, its not like we could just take some of the captive corns we have and rerelease them back into the wild if that does happen cause you know, that just would be dumb... :bang:

Well, that is enough out of me, I am going to bed to go to work in a few hours again so, OCFinfan, please feel free to bash me with whatever unrelated comments you like like hypocracy, of childish, or ignorant, cause really I dont care what you think about me. Im 19, your 39... grow up!

[PssdffJay]

Hurley you beat me by a few minutes!! ;)

[mrweaw]

OCFinfan,

I am a biologist and am not a huge supporter of wildcaught specimens myself, but frankly I find you horribly rude. You have insulted several people here that I consider friends and are good people. You also seem to have a serious problem telling the difference between what is written or said...and what you want to believe was written or said. A word of advice...Think Twice, Speak once (or type once in this case) This is a place where you can learn and make friends if you wish, but it seems that you have simply joined to bash people and force your own beliefs onto others. If this is your goal, please do it somewhere else.

Sincerely,
Erin Williams

[OCFinfan]

Great post Hurley, you stated your opinion very well, and I concur with virtually all of what you said.
As far as mrweaw goes, I was only rude when someone was rude to me. I stated my point, how I felt, but the people that replied felt it was necesssary to resort to name calling way before they even tried to offer up a valid argument, if at all. You say I have a hard time telling the difference; however most people were trying to bash me for what was implied, trying to put words in my mouth, getting philosophical or hypothetical, rather than what was said. I do give you credit though for stating your opinion before you hopped on the bash bandwagon.
Now jay, very enlightening post!
1. Now, I am new to snakes myself and I couldnt tell you why or how there are so many snakes on the endangered species list but i can take a guess... CAUSE THEY WERE FREAKING HUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boots, belts, other overpriced accessories... But when was the last time you heard about people going out and hunting corns... still waiting... yeah, thats what I thought!!! If anything, we are saving the species by breeding them and keeping them and stopping the harsh elements of our cruel world from killing them. Sure we play a part with construction and desecration, but I dont hear you b*tching about that now. Are you going to go on a construction forum and yell at them for building because amazingly enough, us humans like to live in buildings and have homes and drive cars on paved roads...

Is there a difference between hunting and taking a snake out of the wild for your personal collection? No. There is no difference between capturing a snake and making a belt out of it and keeping a wild caught snake in your personal collection. Either way, they are now out of nature. Then you say we are doing them a favor by catching them before we kill them. All righty then.
I am against construction in snake habitat, and yes, I have voiced my objections here in Southern California about some proposed buildings. Did it have any impact? Probably not. The houses were still built, but at least the topic was raised. However, at least the local fish and game has halted some projects when it was realized that there was an endangered species in the area about to be razed. At least its a start to try and raise public awareness.

2. Oh, and about the gravid female and you saying that they lay so many eggs so that one may survive to breed on its own... lets say only 10 eggs hatched after being captured and cared for... umm, 1 survivor or 10... lets do the math... lets say that in one year, each snake again only laid 10 eggs for simplicity... the only one in the wild that survived laid 10 and lets keep your optimism and only 1 survives... hmmm, now you have 2 snakes... But lets say the 10 in captivity each have 10 offspring on their own that survive... hmm, i don't need a calculator to see that we now have 100 snakes... so in review, lets compare, 2 snakes, 100 snakes... but of course, your're right, lets just keep the 2 and see how fast they dissappear...

In review, lets compare..100 snakes IN captivity, -2 in the wild. I feel there are more than enough corn snakes in captivity for every snake enthusiast out there.

3. Oh yeah, and if the california king snake is so scarce because of people capturing them... where do you think yours came from? Hmm? I guarantee that at one point in time, your snake had relatives that were captured from the wild... still waiting for you to free yours though... let me know when you do so I can grab a tissue cause it will be a sad moment!

Mine came from captive breeders, and of course at 1 point their ancestors were wild. I have no problem with the capturing and breeding of different kinds of snakes, but I feel we have accomplished that goal many times over, and there is no longer a need, nor has there been for quite some time to keep capturing wild caught snakes.

4. Lets see, what other contradictory and not intelligent things did you say... Quote: "I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild." Still waiting to hear about your release party for your snakes...

Did I say captive bred snakes? No. I said wild snakes. You read it, copied it, and still got it wrong. I would prefer wild snakes remaining wild. period.

5. Quote: "And FYI, EVERY animal that is either extinct or endangered was at one time plentiful." Yeah, CAUSE THEY WERE FREAKING HUNTED!!!! NOT CAPTURED TO BE BREAD IN CAPTIVITY IN THE PROBABLY HUNDRES OF THOUSANDS EACH YEAR!!!!!!!!!!! HUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seeing a pattern yet?


You are stating my point for me. Capturing, hunted, its still the same result. A snake is removed from its natural environment.

6. Quote: "And just to reiterate what I have previously said, I think there is a HUGE difference in capturing a snake that obviously doesnt have a chance..." So what about the other hatchlings that dont survive to adault hood that we were talking about earlier? Are they not worth saving cause according to you they dont have a chance??

That is called nature. Most wont survive to maturity, but they still have a chance. When we take them out of the wild all chances are negated.

7. No facts you say, but you are certain enough to imply that the wild population are decreasing b/c of catching wild snakes, "especially gravid ones". So what about all the other gravid snakes out there that are better at hiding from humans and are able to lay their eggs. Granted, we will never be able to give an accurate number to how many corns are left in the wild but still if captive corns are increasing we better be careful that corns dont go extinct, its not like we could just take some of the captive corns we have and rerelease them back into the wild if that does happen cause you know, that just would be dumb...

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


People, my whole point is I feel there is a gluttony of corns in the market, and there is no need to capture snakes. Yes, corns are abundant and plentiful in some areas, especially FL where some of the people that replied live. But how much longer will they stay abundant? I am jealous that some of you live in areas that afford you the privilege of seeing some of these magnificent creatures in the their native habitat. When I was a child growing up, you could take a walk and find many different species of snakes; rosy boas, a few diffferent kings, a few different rattlesnakes, gopher snakes, racers, whiptails, garters, etc. Unfortunatley those days are gone. I hope that 1 day your children or their children will still be able to find the joy of taking a walk and coming across a plethora of animals that used to be taken for granted.
It is obvious that those of you that go out "herpin" and catching will continue to do so. But maybe instead of grabbing that gravid female, why dont you keep on searching for awhile till you find an older snake, preferably male, to add to your collection. I live near the ocean and there are strict regulations now in place about the size and amount of what you can keep. Unfortunately for most species that once thrived here, those rules have come too late. I dont want that to happen to corns or any other species.

[DdotSpot]

Of course you know that we are not ALL in agreeance with the way that some people respond. Hope you don't get the wrong impression. I'm with Hurley on this one. Also a good post OC. I think this topic is ongoing and we can discuss it till we are blue in the face and not get anywhere. I don't own any WC, nor am I in the area to find them. But if I was, and ran across a unique specimin, I think that I would not feel any remorse about it. However, I am NOT going to go collect bags full of them.

[Serpwidgets]

As far as mrweaw goes, I was only rude when someone was rude to me. I stated my point, how I felt, but the people that replied felt it was necesssary to resort to name calling way before they even tried to offer up a valid argument, if at all. You say I have a hard time telling the difference; however most people were trying to bash me for what was implied, trying to put words in my mouth, getting philosophical or hypothetical, rather than what was said.Let's not play Clintonian word games. What you said and what you implied were very clear. And that is that people are destroying the wild populations by collecting. It's right there in black and white.

You have still offered no proof, nor even a scrap of evidence to show this to be true. You can't just call someone an axe murderer and then act like it's their job to prove they are not. When you are making accusations (which you very clearly did) then it is upon you to prove them before anyone should have to make any arguments to the contrary.

And you can't just say, "you have no need to own an axe because I think you might use it to murder someone" and expect that people need to justify to you why they own an axe. Again, it is upon you to show that it is in some way "bad" before you can in any way justify telling other people what they can or cannot do or that they are "bad" for doing so.

You claim that this has happened with other species. That's true, but there are plenty of other species that are widely hunted, collected--whatever term you want to use--and are not destroyed by it. So your statement does not prove that anything WILL happen, just that it's possible. As I pointed out, it's also possible for "everyone" to do any number of normal everyday harmless things that would suddenly make it very destructive. That doesn't make said activity bad in itself, unless or until people actually start doing so in significant numbers to justify a belief that it's a realistic concern.

I could see if people were burning down fields and wiping out entire populations to collect a bunch of snakes and throw them in shipping containers to starve, dehydrate, and be eaten alive by parasites so that they could sell a few of them at rock-bottom prices to unsuspecting buyers. But that simply is not the case with cornsnakes.

Yes, if everyone went and collected a bag full of wild corns, there would be a problem. But that is not what is happening, and again you have not shown a single shred of evidence that anything of the sort is happening. Nor have you shown that the wild populations have even declined. The best you have offered is that the captive population has increased. They reproduce in great numbers in captivity, so of course they have increased. This says nothing of the wild population.

But, despite a total lack of evidence or even any kind of logical argument at your side, you still went ahead with your clearly accusatory tone. In order to make accusations that people are doing wrong by collecting, you first need to show that 1- there is a decline in the population, and 2- that said decline is a result of overcollecting. Well, where's the beef?

Meanwhile, here are some numbers. The ACR currently has 1606 snakes registered. Of these, 4, (yes, four) cornsnakes, are reported as wild-caught. That's one fourth of one percent. Two of those four wild caught snakes are the founders of the entire lava line. How many hundreds of lavas (or is it thousands now) have been produced in captivity? So far it's around 15% of the registered population that are carrying the lava gene.

One of those other wild-caught snakes is Susan's snake which she has said produced 135 or so hatchlings.

Meanwhile, 60% of the ACR's population is carrying the amel gene, which means that they are all in some way descended from Dr Bechtel's original albino. That's just the albino gene. Yes, those numbers will continue to change as more corns enter the registry, but it's not very likely that there will be massive changes to the makeup of the general population. You can check out the gene frequencies of the rest of them at this URL: http://cornguide.com/ACR/GeneFrequencies.php

[Duff]

I might regret chimming in on this one, but from what I can see, OC is one of those types that just likes to start crap and get everyone all worked up. They get off on arguments, and feed off the attention. So if you ask me, when someone makes a post that is so obviously an attempt to piss people off, the best thing to do is not respond and that person will go look for somewhere else to get the attention they're looking for. So not really anything to add, as it's all been said, but sometimes it's better to just let things go rather than get all worked up, cause it's just gonna keep going as long as the originator is getting what he/she wants out of it... attention.

[OCFinfan]

No worries there, I have said what I think and believe on this subject. If my posts will have an impact on 1 person contemplating taking that beautiful animal they were so fortunate enough to see in nature, then my expressing myself and opening up my beliefs to everyone for them to judge and criticize will have been worth it.

Peace,

Tom Walker

[mbdorfer]

No worries there, I have said what I think and believe on this subject. If my posts will have an impact on 1 person contemplating taking that beautiful animal they were so fortunate enough to see in nature, then my expressing myself and opening up my beliefs to everyone for them to judge and criticize will have been worth it.

Peace,

Tom Walker
Excellent, perhaps you can work on those who fish next :rolleyes:

[PssdffJay]

It is obvious that you cant see sarcasm when it blatantly slaps you in the face. Give me a reason or two on why we couldn't release captive corns back into the wild instead of just writing exactly. That was sarcasm when I wrote: "its not like we could just take some of the captive corns we have and re release them back into the wild if that does happen cause you know, that just would be dumb..." Actually give me an answer not just lame @ss bull sh*t!

And capturing and hunting is not the same! Sure they maybe taken out of the wild but we are not killing them! We are giving them a exponentially greater chance of survival. Exponentially means greater for lack of a better lamans word... just for your reference! And in fact I would say we are ensuring the survival of the species with breeding in captivity.

Quote: 4. Lets see, what other contradictory and not intelligent things did you say... Quote: "I would be happier if wild snakes remained that way...wild." Still waiting to hear about your release party for your snakes...
Did I say captive bred snakes? No. I said wild snakes. You read it, copied it, and still got it wrong. I would prefer wild snakes remaining wild. period.

I didnt get it wrong, you are just a hypocritic!

Hey look! Another hypocritical statement: "I have no problem with the capturing and breeding of different kinds of snakes,"

You know what man, you arnt even worth my time and effort. If oyu want to bitch and complain, start your own thread somehwere else, dont jack someone elses. Better yet, bitch and complaine somewhere else completely.

[Serpwidgets]

Jay, you might want to tone it down a notch, or two or three. It's nice that you're so passionate about the issue, but the vulgarity doesn't make your point for you, it only makes it harder to find.

[Gronk]

Sigh...my head hurts from just skimming this thread. Smells like PETA rhetoric to me.

[bentleycorn]

Having an opinion is one thing, but going onto a site where we all are snake lovers and enjoy our beautiful reptiles and bashing those who have taken one out of the wild is another. If you have an opinion, that is great... keep it to yourself, obviously this is not a site where controversy is something people come on here for. We all care for our snakes, and feel equally protective over them as you do, but that does not give you a right to barge in and force your opinion on us. If that is your opinion, you may want to find a website with people who share your same feelings, and rant and rave there along with them. We all feel the same here, and i don't think that aggravating everyone is going to make you feel any better about the topic. If you feel that taking snakes out of the wild is "terrible", then don't do it, it's a choice for people, not against the law... So I suggest you try not to force your beliefs upon us so that the members of this website can go back to enjoying ourselves.

[Roy Munson]

I'm mostly a lurker here, but I don't like the idea that a discussion topic has to be non-controversial to have a place on this forum. The discussion would have been better if it had been in its own thread, and conducted with more civility, but I don't think this interesting topic should be taboo. I don't agree with OCFinfan's opinion on taking snakes from the wild (I've done it myself a few times), but I was interested in his opinions and those of other posters. I'm not so sensitive that I can't handle reading an opposing opinion, even if it is presented in a somewhat belligerent manner (and targets ME).

My $.02

[JenC]

Dont mean to bring this back up but...

Like jay stated, alot of animals are being hunted wich is why they are endanged, and people are now breeding them in captivity to try and get the population back up.

With all the people that live in florida, and moving to florida and hotter places (i should know, my family wants to move down their) There is a ton of construction and destroying of the corns habitat.

Its not like every single day people are going out there with the intentions of snaggin handfulls of wild corns. But yes, some people do it, but not to ruin the species...to better it, to get new blood, ETC. If i visited Florida (which we oftedn do) and I found/captured a wild corn snake...me being me, i would want to keep it (once checked over for parasites etc) as a piece of Florida since I can't live there.

Anywho, Instead of waiting until there is only about 100 corn snakes left in the wild, making it harder to bring the population back up, why can't we start now? To guarantee the survival of this species for YEARS to come.

EVERY snake came from the wild, generations..even the snakes you have..have wild genes.

Anyway, thats just me..

[~slither~]

OCfinfan, I can't beleive you consider hunting and herping the same thing. Hunting is either done for food (OK), or for 'sport' because some people like to kill things (NOT OK, IMHO).
Herping is done for the pleasure of it, whether it be to keep or release the snake after, and IMO if someone wants to have WC in their collection, then good luck herping to them. I only wish we had corns over here in the UK, I'd be out all the time trying to find wild specimens.
'you say we may be doing them a favour before we kill them'
I strongly doubt that anyone who goes herping would have any harsh feelings for corns, and would never hurt them. People who kill animals are the above mentioned hunters. Just my opinion.

[Shaky]

Individual collecting, whether for research or hobby has virtually no affect on populations, which replenish themselves every few years.
Road kills alone far outnumber collected animals.
The only exception is wholsale commercial collecting.
Ethically, its an individual thing. No one can tell you what your ethics SHOULD be, since ethics are formed by years of growth and development.
Anyone who tells me that its wrong to do something is, in effect, wrong himself. There is no intrinsic right and wrong, it simply depends on point of view.

[moonshadow]

umm, I don't know about anyone else, but I still want to see those pictures of that monster wild corn... :shrugs:

[Lennycorn]

Me too,
If you can talk to that guy, remind him.
Thanks.

[MentallyTwisted]

Hallelujah! Someone else noticed the thread went into Neverland!

I would love to see those pics too.

Woke up early and started reading. This thread holds an uncanny resemblance to the last twelve years of my life. Kinda made me think it was old home week! :bang:

I'm glad to know we all have our opinions and I know I will regret this, but there are a lot worse things going on this world right now that could use the time, energy and attention spent on most of this thread. Does anyone feel better after all of those days trying to prove what seem to be crucial points on both sides of the debate? Did I miss the making up part? :eek1:

I love all life whether human, reptilian, amphibian, birds, bugs, insects and yes even the hundreds of deer who are eating the country's crops and causing automobile insurance to skyrocket in our area. But the thought of seeing a Corn that size makes my day! How on earth did left field jump up there and grab the conversation like that?


Bring on the Supersize Corn!!!

[~slither~]

I'll 3rd that, lets see this supersize monster.

[Furian]

there you go

http://epoch-larp.ca/beastiary/bea_giant_snake.jpg

ps : those peoples are destroying the specie

[Furian]

I meant the people on the picture of course
I mean it was a joke...
I mean...
oh hell, nevermind :'D

there are a lot worse things going on this world right now that could use the time, energy and attention spent on

I bow to you madam

[dionythicus]

St. Georg and the dragon!

[Tegucentric]

I read all the way through this to see a huge 6.5 foot cornsnake but instead all I get is a huge headache. Where is that picture?

Rick

[Gintha]

Likewise... my brain hurts from reading this.. and no pictures ~,~

[Preita]

lol but we all check back because we are all curious to see if a picture will materialize.

it probably wont and I still think that Miami is the beafiest snake I have seen ;D

[ecreipeoj]

If anybody finds a HUGH melanistic Corn in the wild, send it my way.

[CrazyCorn]

I don't know if anyone remembers this big girl? She was a solid 5-5.5ft.
http://flherper.com/picture_library/Corn.jpg

[Taceas]

As much as he was being an egotistical person...I do have to agree with him.

I have issues about collecting adult specimens. I don't think its fair to the animal. I've caught wild black rats and kept them for a couple of weeks, but their longing to get back out broke me.

I don't care if you collect the few stray hatchlings. But to collect a gravid female and let her lay eggs, but I'd much rather see her released back in the wild where she belongs afterwards. Making more natural beauties. I just don't think it's ethical, at least in my code of ethics. My ethics also extend to people who collect an area dry and then sell off their finds. There's just something inherently wrong with that picture.

Look at how well cornsnakes have evolved with their different colors to meet their different habitat needs. Pretty soon, everyone collecting all the "pretty" snakes are going to find the species has made itself ugly to avoid collection. ;)

[ecreipeoj]

My ethics also extend to people who collect an area dry and then sell off their finds. There's just something inherently wrong with that picture.
There is some validity to this statement. There are some isolated localities that have a specific micro-climate specific to a species of snakes that could be harvested into extinction by commercial collectors. Good examples of this are some of the Mountain King Snakes and islander localities. I have found some of these micro-climate areas of California and Baja Mountain King Snakes and it could be possible to destroy a locality population due to the isolated areas of good habitat, but it would most likely take dynamite. Heavy collecting in these areas would have a serious impact on the population in any event. The San Francisco Garter Snakes is another good example. They only have one small area left near the airport to live. Appropriate measures have been taken to ensure their survival.

The above circumstances do not apply to Corn Snakes in Florida. I have been to Florida many times and it is more like a jungle than a micro-climate. I do not believe that any amount of commercial collecting of Corn Snakes in Florida, even if we enlisted the entire efforts of our armed forces, would cause any long term effect on the Corn Snakes survival. It is legal to collect Corn Snakes in Florida and it is legal to commercially collect Corn Snakes in Florida with the proper permits. The authorities have studied this issue and found that commercial collecting of Corn Snakes in Florida does not have a significant impact on wild populations. It is literally like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

Look at how well cornsnakes have evolved with their different colors to meet their different habitat needs. Pretty soon, everyone collecting all the "pretty" snakes are going to find the species has made itself ugly to avoid collection. ;)
I believe this is a joke. It would take many life times of our armed forces commercially collecting Corn Snakes to cause this type of "evolution".

I don’t believe that most people who think it is unethical to collect a wild caught snake has actually field collected. It is extremely difficult to find one single snake while field collecting on foot. Field collectors can destroy habitat, which I have seen, but sometimes they are creating more habitat in some cases. Collecting snakes by road hunting is much more productive, but even then, there are many more dry nights than successful ones. If these snakes are living by the road, and cross them to “sun bath“ (thermo regulate), then they will soon be eliminated from the population in a very short time anyway.

[RyanR]

I also want to see the pics of that monster snake!!!

no more arguing.... make a new thread for ytour thots.. not here

[ecreipeoj]

This thread was high jacked long ago and taken off topic. I did start a new thread for the original topic of this thread in my personal forum which I can control and keep on topic. I invite all of you that have posted photos of Super Sized Corns here to post them in this new thread. I would also like to see photos of other species that are extra large and stories of large snakes are also welcome. The photos of the Corns do not have to be Super Sized, but if they are one of the largest Corns or Snakes that you have, then please post them for all of us to see.
XXXL Corn Snakes (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=211968#post211968)

[Baba-Lou]

OK now I seriously Do not Want to continue this arguement in anyway. But arn't all corns and all captive bred snakes originated from Wildcaught? Why are we all argueing about catching a w/c corn, or stubbling upon a wild corn only to strengthen our breeding lines. I know for fact yes there are people like OCfinfan that are totally against or just don't want to see certain species decimated due to having w/c. But why can't we all see that all animals that are domesticated were once wild themselves? And on another note. Isn't that why we breed them? To maintain that number or keep it increasing, to make sure that that species does not go exstint or endangerd?

OK well thats done. Just needed to let that out. but then again thats only MHO.

OK so where is this illusive Monster of a snake picture? :P

[princess]

I've bugged Martin for the photo and he told me it was taken on someone elses camera and they were meant to send him the photo by e-mail and never did and he's lost touch since...so I guess we won't see this one as it turns out I would have loved to have seen it too...in real life would have been even better.

[Lennycorn]

I've bugged Martin for the photo and he told me it was taken on someone elses camera and they were meant to send him the photo by e-mail and never did and he's lost touch since...so I guess we won't see this one as it turns out I would have loved to have seen it too...in real life would have been even better.


Bug him some more. You need to end this thread. bug him for the pic

ha! ha! ha!

[Plums]

my youngest is touching 5 ft ! ( nearly as tall as little old me now !

[CaptBogart]

Dang, we're neighbors. I've seen lots of bandeds and the black racers (one 4 footer loves looking in the window from the bushes.) but haven't seen a corn or rattler yet for my photography collection. Checked out Honeymoon Island but only got gopher tortoise, armadillos, and osprey, no snakes...

[RyanR]

yea im very exited to see pics :)

[PssdffJay]

If you want to see pictures of supersize corns, a new thread was started here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27553&highlight=xxxl+corns