A lesson in numbers...

Purchased - 6 adult corn snakes - cost $700 including shipping

Arrival - 3 sick

Progression - 5 sick

Vet and drug costs - $549.50
Testing - $177

Time elapsed - 2 months; daily care (7 days a week)

Results - one never got sick - very rigid quarantine procedure
saved two, three had to be euthanized

Necropsy costs - $412

Total cost (excluding price of snakes) - $ 1138.50

Lesson - buy carefully

That sucks more than words can say. Sorry for all the problems you had.

Oh wow. I'm so sorry, Skye.

Skye, i am really sorry to hear that happen to you. i guess there was not that great of a guarantee on those snakes.

Who did you get them from?

What did the necropsy tell you?

WOW...that is terrible, Skye! I am SO sorry to hear that you had such a horrible experience!

I'd also like to know where you got them from. I want to steer clear of that breeder!

And what did the necropsy show? And where did you get the necropsies done? We can send them to our state lab for like $15.00 each.

Please tell me where you got them from so I can avoid them in the future. What did they get sick/die from?

Skye,

I think that what just happened to you warrants a post on th B.O.I to warn others about the person you got them from...Were the snakes packaged properly???Have you contacted the seller to see what he/she says about the snakes...

Also if you don't mind, who was the seller???

Gregg

I'm sorry for the loss and the cost skye. That's a tradagy, it makes me feel like ticking with what i've got just in case.

Again sorry mate for the loss.

OUCH! Sorry to hear about that Skye! Sounds like the seller needs a huge lesson in snake husbandry. I hope you found out what the cause was and no one buys any more snakes from this person.

I would like to answer a few questions that have arisen in this thread:

The seller did offer to take the snakes back and refund my money...I don't believe in shipping sick animals. I would rather lose the money than put the animals through more stress.

For this reason I did not go to the BOI, as the offer of attempting to resolve the problem was forthcoming from the seller.

I believe that the snakes could have been shipped in a better manner for their health. On the good side they were shipped overnight with a reliable company; they did arrive on-time; the box was undamaged; the box was a typical shipping box with an insulating liner inside a sturdy cardboard box. On the poor side the box was the size I would use for 6 hatchlings, not 6 adults. 5 of the 6 were in one bag inside the box. I think each snake should be in individual bags. There were two poops inside the bag and so these 5 had been crawling through fecal matter for the journey. No heat or cool packs were used which was appropriate for the time of year.

Necropsy Services: My usual choice of place is Northwest ZooPath ( http://www.zoopath.com ), who specialize in pathology of exotics. I have used them for a number of years now, and am very happy with them.
These cases had been such a challenge that I actually sent tissues off to another place as well as ZooPath to get the comparison. The second place I used was Antech diagnostics. In both places the cases were reviewed by pathologists who were diplomats of the American College of Veterinary Pathologists. For those interested, the cost comparison was $50.50 per case from NorthWest Zoopath, and about $200 per case from Antech - depending on the number of tissues involved. I will continue to use ZooPath as I am very happy with their services, but I believe the other place to be good too.

Necropsy Results: Severe hepatic lipidosis; mild nodular acinar cell hyperplasia; mild heterophilic interstitial pneumonia; suspicion that the primary cause was undetected

Breeder: I will not be releasing the breeders name.

Skye said:

Necropsy Results: Severe hepatic lipidosis; mild nodular acinar cell hyperplasia; mild heterophilic interstitial pneumonia; suspicion that the primary cause was undetected

Click to expand...

So what does this mean in laymen's terms?

I am interested in knowing in laymans terms as well...


I respect your decision not to disclose the breeder...but, if the breeder shipped sick animals in the first place, in an inappropriate manner, regardless of their offer to accept the snakes if returned, they should be mentioned.

I would hate to order snakes from this person, and go through what you did, because this wasn't posted on the BOI.

Because I am not a doctor, and unfamiliar with the necropsy diagnosis, I cannot say whether they were at fault of not.

Hepatic lipidosis literally means "fatty liver". It's usually caused by the liver getting flooded with fat from either poor diet (too high in fat) or by starvation/emaciation (too much fat mobilized for energy, overwhelming the liver).

Nodular acinar cell hyperplasia is an increase/regeneration of cells in the pancreas. The acinar cells are the ones that produce digestive enzymes for the intestine to break down proteins, fats, and sugars. May be related to the condition causing the hepatic lipidosis. Nonspecific finding.

Heterophilic interstitial pneumonia means that there are white blood cells invading the area around the airsaccules (alveoli) in the lungs. The snake had pneumonia. Causes include bacterial, viral, inhalation of substances, etc. Being shipped in one bag with 2 defecations smeared about did not help the situation, but it could have also been an underlying low-grade virus in the colony or bacteria...fungus...parasite...etc.

Were these necropsy results from a snake that died shortly after arriving? Reason I ask is that they can develop hepatic lipidosis after starvation due to refusal to eat with an RI. Kind of a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario.

Snakes certainly can develop shipping stress induced RI's in transit. My experience has been that adults are more prone to it. I have had a couple cases of snakes breaking with severe pneumonia right after being shipped. They were shipped appropriate to the season and in good flesh when I got them, but died within days to months despite treatment. Two cases were from the best in the business. It had nothing to do with being sick prior, I know they weren't. But those particular snakes did not handle the stress of shipping well and succumbed to it. It is also possible to have a low-grade non-clinical condition that is exacerbated by stress of shipping.

I agree, the shipping method was questionable. If they were not in good flesh when they arrived, it makes you worry that they were chronically ill, but if they were fat...I'd suspect shipping induced an RI.

This isn't to clear the seller entirely of blame in this situation, but to add a modicum of perspective. The fault may not lie entirely with the breeder, the situation must be taken into account as well. We've all had shipments arrive perfectly fine and the snakes do fine and all is roses. But there are instances where bad results happen. You just try to minimize the risk as much as possible when buying and accept that some things aren't entirely under our control.

Thank you for the explanation...
I appreciate it.

I agree that the breeder may not be entirely to blame, or not at all.

I just wonder if anyone else has had this problem with this breeder, or if this truly is an incidental issue.

I implore you, Skye, to at least CHECK the BOI (if you haven't already done so) and see if anyone else has had problems with the breeder in the past.
If this is an isolated incident, then a post is almost surely not warranted, especially with the offer to make good on the deal. But if this is reoccuring, the person should be reported so others do not make the same mistake.

Hurley - great explanation - thanks for saving me a lot of typing.

I would like to echo all of what Hurley said. Sometimes it is purely the shipping, sometimes there is an unknown underlying infection, and sometimes it is the result of prior poor husbandry.

Derek - checking the BOI after making a purchase is like locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. I can assure you that I do check the BOI regularly, partly to keep an eye on what is going on in the reptile world, and always to check out new sellers. The breeder in this situation has only a little said about them, and all the comments are very positive.

The aim of starting this thread was not to bring the breeder into the equation - I would deal with the breeder personally - but to highlight to people just how much things can go wrong, and how quickly the bills can mount up. Even buying from someone with a good reputation doesn't guarantee a trouble-free transaction. All too often, people are only concerned as to whether they have enough money to buy the animal in question. I uphold that there must always be enough money to pay for the animal, the housing, the food, and potential treatments should the situation not be as one would always like it to be.

Skye- I did not mean to check this person out now for any indiscretion...just, if you hadn't done it previous, you may want to check now to see what has been said...and then decide if you want to add your experience to it. Obviously you have already done your homework...and like I said earlier, I respect and applaud your decision to NOT disclose the breeder if you feel there has been no wrongdoing.

I am glad you shared your experience with us...some people do not understand the level of commitment and responsibility that is incorporated into owning reptiles.