salmonella

[Razorblade Jinx]

I keep hearing about salmonella, but do people actually get it? I hear you have to wash your hands after you handle your snake. Well I have never washed my hands after I handled Circe, she has, on occasion, peeked inside my mouth, she is usually present at the dinner table and crawls around all our food. So I am guessing if I haven’t gotten it all these months I won’t now. But here’s the question. Do all snakes have it, is it something they may get later on. Is it something that could harm them? That sort of stuff. (yes I did look online, and no I didn’t find anything helpful)

[JTGoff69]

Oh my! I think, (and others will be glad to let you know the details) that salmonella is present in reptiles and amphibians, but doesn't always show itself. It is a zoonose, which means a disease which can be transfered from animal to human. I have turtles and snakes and always wash my hands after handling them, and in between different specimens. Turtles under 4" have been banned from sale because some children were putting them in their mouths and contracting salmonella. I would definitely keep Circe away from your mouth and the dinner table, and wash your hands every time you handle him/her. Salmonella as I understand it, is not a fun thing to have. Not worth taking the chance IMO. I hope this helps, others will have more info for you. Post a pic, we'd love to see Circe! :wavey:

[Missy]

now i always wash my hands before handling them, but not always after handling them, from what i know salmonella is very rare for a human to contract it, however it is possible i also have heard that the disease itself in humans is untreatable, please correct me if im wrong, im not completely sure about that.
one more thing is i always kiss my snakes, lol, (yeah i know its weird) but is that a way to catch it as well?

[cornman1979]

It depends on the bacteria levels and if the snake is unwell it may well pass salmonelosis through its poop, and if you don't know the snake isnt well (sometines it's just an upset stomac or diarrea) and you don't wash your hands, it could contaminate any meats that you eat, cooked or not.

Missy i don't kiss my snakes but my mum does and she's never had it that i know of.

[Spirit]

one more thing is i always kiss my snakes, lol, (yeah i know its weird) but is that a way to catch it as well?

lol! I have a friend who kisses her python ALL the time. She would answer this thread by saying "Salmonwhat? PFFFFFFFFT". :laugh:

It's always a good idea to wash your hands before you eat, but in my opinion, you're much more likely to get sick from touching a public doorknob than you are your snake.

[norbert03]

to wash your hands and i'd avoid letting your snake roam around your meat loaf and string beans...and keep her out of your mouth! salmonella poisoining is wicked! you do not want it...don't even risk it. imho.

[norbert03]

missy, you're funny!!!! are we friends? you're actually a pretty cool cat, sorry i was mean, let's hang out! i'll take you to the cinema or the local pub...mwah. continue kissing your serpents :)

[Spirit]

I'm sure you all already know this, but the more we protect ourselves from bacterias, the higher our risks of getting sick.

My roommate is a cook, for example. I've seen him eat large bites of raw chicken, beef, and fish and not get a hint of a stomach ache. Now if I tried that... Well I doubt I'd be posting here now! :laugh:

Edit: Same reasoning with why you can't catch the same strain of cold/flu twice. :cheers:

[norbert03]

precaution one should make on a consistent basis is hand washing, i'm not gonna get sick from washing my hands, i'd get sick from taking a bite out of raw meat, for sure...would i get sick from letting my snake go into my mouth or slither over my tofu turkey and raspberry jello...who knows, but it is not something i am willing to find out.

[Spirit]

would i get sick from letting my snake go into my mouth or slither over my tofu turkey and raspberry jello...who knows, but it is not something i am willing to find out.

Well that wasn't the question, now was it. If I were to scoop poop with my bare hands, I certainly won't eat finger food without washing them first. But I don't eat finger foods without washing my hands first PERIOD. Forget the snake. I do the same thing after sticking my hand in the fish tank. Or taking out the garbage. Or when I come home from a mall. Etc.

And for the record, I do the same as Missy. I always wash them before (well, most of the time), but never after unless I'm about to (for example) prepare a meal , but that has nothing to do with handling a snake or the possibility of salmonella... I always wash my hands before I stick them in food.

There was a study done on bacteria in public places. One I remember clearly was feces. You would NOT BELIEVE where they found traces of the stuff.

As for contracting the illness from a snake, I "poopoo" on that theory. *giggle* There's a risk I'm sure, but unless your immune system is non functional, the risk is minimal. Not something to worry about AT ALL, imho.

It's common sense, really.

Actually... this reminds me of those tiny little turtles (red ear, is it? slider?). They've been banned from being kept in most places because of diseases, but I forget which ones exactly.

[norbert03]

question, i was alarmed by certain things the original poster said s/he does from time to time and responded as i felt necessary. all turtles are illegal in new jersey because of the risk of salmonella, it's a stupid law that i broke on more than one occasion.

[Alias47]

Straight from the Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians:



"ARAV Special Publications

Salmonella Bacteria and Reptiles:

CLIENT EDUCATIONAL HANDOUT

Most, if not all, reptiles carry Salmonella bacteria in their intestinal tract and intermittently or continuously shed these bacteria in their feces. Salmonella bacteria usually do not cause any illness in reptiles, but can cause serious illness in people.

Salmonella bacteria are easily spread from reptiles to humans. Humans may become infected when they place their hands on objects, including food items, that have been in contact with the stool of reptiles, in their mouths. For example, infants have become infected after drinking from bottles of infant formula that became contaminated during preparation. Individuals ho prepared the formula had not washed their hands after touching a reptile or because reptiles were allowed to walk on kitchen counters. For Salmonella bacteria to spread from reptiles to humans, the bacteria must be ingested. Therefore, simply touching or holding a reptiles will not result in spread of bacteria unless something contaminated with reptiles feces or the reptile itself is placed in the mouth.

Most Salmonella infections in humans result in a mild, self-limiting illness characterized by diarrhea, fever, and abdominal cramps. However, the infection can spread to the bloodstream, bone marrow or nervous system, leading to severe, and sometimes fatal, illness. Such severe infections are more likely to occurs in infants and in individuals whose immune system is compromised (for instance, bone marrow transplant recipients, persons with diabetes mellitus, persons infected with the human immunodeficiency virus, and chemotherapy patients).

Unfortunately, Salmonella bacteria cannot be eliminated from the intestinal tract of reptiles. Administration of antibiotics to eliminate these bacteria has been unsuccessful and may result in emergence of Salmonella bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. Attempt to raise or identify reptiles that do not carry Salmonella bacteria have also been unsuccessful; therefore, bacterial culture of stool samples in an attempt to identify reptiles that are not carrying Salmonella bacteria is not recommended.

Fortunately the spread of Salmonella bacteria from reptiles to humans can be easily prevented by using the following routine precautions:

Always wash your hands with hot, soapy water after handling reptiles, reptile cages and equipment, and the stool of reptiles.
Do not allow reptiles to have access to the kitchen, dining room, or any other area in which food is prepared. Also, do not allow reptiles to have access to bathroom sinks and tubs or to any area where infants are bathed. Consider keeping your reptiles caged or limiting the parts of the house where reptiles are allowed to roam free. Always wash your hands after coming into contact with any area where reptiles are allowed to roam free.
Do not eat, drink, or smoke while handling reptiles, reptiles cages, or reptile equipment. Do not kiss reptiles or share food or drink with them.
Do not use the kitchen sink, kitchen counters, bathroom sinks or bathtubs to bathe reptiles or to wash reptile cages, dishes or aquariums. Reptile owners may wish to purchase a plastic basin or tub in which to bathe or swim their reptiles. Waste water and fecal material should be disposed of in the toilet instead of the bathtub or household sink.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that children less than five years of age avoid contact with reptiles and that households with children less than one year of age not own reptiles. The Association of Reptilian and Amphibian Veterinarians encourages reptile owners with young children to discuss steps to minimize risks associated with owning reptiles with their reptiles' veterinarian and their physician. Children should be supervised when they are handling reptiles to ensure that they do not place their hands or objects that a reptile has contacted in their mouths. Reptiles should not be kept in child care centers.
Immunocompromised persons should avoid contact with reptiles.
Follow instructions from your reptile's veterinarian concerning proper diet and environment for your reptile. Healthy reptiles living in proper environments are less likely to shed Salmonella bacteria.
Information in this handout is not meant to discourage reptile ownership. With a few exceptions (for example, infants or immunocompromised individuals), most people have a low risk of acquiring salmonellosis from reptiles, but this risk can be reduced even further by following simple precautions. Reptiles can be safely kept as pets, but reptile owners should be aware of the methods for reducing their risk of acquiring Salmonella bacteria from their reptiles.

This handout was developed by the Association of Reptilian and Amphibian Veterinarians in collaboration with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and is intended for informational purposes only; please seek advice from your physician and your reptile's veterinarian if questions or problems occur."


This is a link to the page:
http://www.arav.org/SalmonellaOwner.htm

[Missy]

thank you for that alias, that was pretty interesting.
didnt know a lot of that, i do a lot of wrong things, i onyl sometimes wash my hands after ive handled them, i bath them in our bath tub, lol, and i kiss them. im the only one that does handle them, they are in my bedroom they do not go in the kitchen or dining room and i always wash my hands before i eat.

anyways cornman1979, spirit, there is nought wrong with giving your little snakies a kiss goodnight now is there? LOL

norbert03, you cracked me up at your 3rd post back, LOL, yeah were cool now, you werent being mean really i was just being emotional that day, it sucks being a girl when those days come round, you sit there crying to yourself and yet you always have no idea why. LOL. and dont worry i will continue to kiss my snakies.
:)

[Alias47]

I am really good at web searches (spend too much time here...LOL)...that is how I found that.

I don't follow the guidelines to a tee by ANY means. I always wash before handling...and rarely after...unless I am going to eat soon...
The chances of really CONTRACTING salmonella are pretty slim...
But not worth it...it is treatable...but it CAN kill you.

[Alias47]

Oh, yeah...

I want to apologize again, Missy.

I really did mean I was sorry.

[Razorblade Jinx]

Thank you Spirit! The only free spirited person on here. I am sorry, but I honestly think people worry too much. From what I read, Sallmonella is something that most people aren’t even likely to react to if they do get it. It’s mostly children and old people with week immune systems. Now to me, the idea of washing my hands after touching my snake is just ridiculous. If someone were to say “I need to go wash my hands now” after holding her I’d be personally insulted. But, then again, my friends always say I am an “accident waiting to happen” lol! But thanks. I was curious how seriously you guys took it!

[cornman1979]

Razorblade Jinx I am just washing my hands after handleing any snake out of habbit now.

[Razorblade Jinx]

i think the whole idea is really strange to me because i hardly ever wash my hands! lol for any reason!

[shane.N]

Unfortunately you can catch Salmonella from your reptile, but you can also catch it from various foods or kitchen surfaces and numerous other places. In this day and age I feel quite strongly that we have a good understanding of SAlmonella, the causes, risks, treatments etc. It really is important to take precautions for several reasons 1 you really dont want to get SAlmonella , its not nice, 2 it is easy to pass it on and if you passed it on to someone with a low immune system such as a young child, elderly person or someone who is immunocompromised because of illness or medication then it could be FATAL. I know what Im talking about, I am a nurse.
Here is a very basic article I have written on the subject, I hope it helps you to understand Salmonella better. If anyone has any questions then please do not hesitate to ask, I do not know it all, but if I cant answer your question I can point you in the direction of people who can.

"Salmonella in Herpetology.

The incidence of Salmonella is increasing in industrialised countries where the reptile trade is also soaring. It is estimated that there are around 2 - 4 million cases in the U.S. annually.
It is a topic that is highly debateable and often targeted by anti-reptile keeping groups in attempt to halt our hobby.
With reptiles being one of the sources of Salmonella, it is crucial that all involved in the field of herpetology have a good understanding of Salmonella, its consequences and prevention.


This article will provide a brief over view about Salmonella, guidelines for its prevention and a bit of common sense pulling the issues into perspective.




', 'About Salmonella



What is Salmonella?


Salmonella is a type of bacteria discovered by an american scientist called Salmon, and has been recognised as causing illness for over 100 years.

It is a zoonotic disease, meaning it can be passed from animal to animal, a wide range of animals carry zoonoses including cats, dogs, birds and reptiles. Other zoonoses include rabies, BSE and toxoplasmosis. It is spread by touching an infected animal, its faeces or equipment.



Reptiles are known to carry Salmonella in their intestines and can carry Salmonella without displaying any symptoms. People can also be carriers, void of symptoms, unknowingly passing it onto others. People can be carriers for up to a year following infection.There are numerous quotes stating the incidence of reptiles carrying the bacteria, these estimates vary from 30% to 90% of all reptiles.

In people, Salmonellosis causes inflammation of the lining of the intestines leading to diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting, stomach cramps, headaches and dehydration. Some people do experience complications such as septicaemia and it can lead to death. In the year 2000, two UK babies died from Salmonella, in both cases the source was traced back to reptiles. Symptoms ussually commence 8 - 72 hours following infection and generally last from 4 - 7 days, often not requiring treatment. Most people make a full recovery, but a few do go onto experiencepainful eye, joint and micturition problems.
Anyone can become infected with Salmonella, but people with compromised immune systems are at a higher risk. Children under the age of 5, elderly people and anyone recieving chemotherapy are all in this high risk category and in February 2000, the Chief medical officer issued a public warning on the dangers of catching Salmonella from reptiles, recommending that these people avoid contact with reptiles.

Salmonella is determined by laboratory tests to identify it in the faeces of the infected person. Further tests determine the specific type and which antibiotics it is sensitive to. Some Salmonella bacteria have become resistant to antibiotics, largely as a result of the use of antibiotics to promote the growth of feed animals. Attempts at eradicating Salmonella from reptiles have been unsuccessful.

Salmonella is also associated with many foods including raw meat, poultry, seafood, eggs, unprocessed milk and water as well as insects, soil, factory or work surfaces and animal faeces.


Prevention


The Center for Disease Control and Chief Medical Officer are amongst the many organisations that have issued guidelines to prevent the spread of Salmonella. Below is a summary of general recommended guidelines in relation to keeping reptiles.


Always thoroughly wash hands with soap and hot water for at least 30 seconds immediately following handling reptiles or their equipment.


Do not smoke, drink, eat or put youre hands in or near youre mouth whilst handling reptiles, their equipment or faeces. Do not kiss reptiles.

Do not keep reptiles or their vivariums near human food preparation or personal hygiene areas. It is recommended that reptiles are not bathed and their equipment is not cleansed in the kitchen or bathroom sink, if this unavoidable, then full disinfection of the area should follow. Waste material should be disposed of in the toilet.


Those with low immune systems such as children under the age of 5, the elderly, people recieving chemotherapy, people with Aids, Diabetes or other immuno-compromising illneses should either avoid contact with reptiles or use stricter hygiene measures. Children should be taught good handwashing practices. It is strongly recomended that infants under the age of 1 year should have no contact with reptiles.


Follow a regular thorough cleansing regime of youre reptiles housing.


Do not allow youre reptile to roam free around the house.


Always wash youre hands before eating and drinking.


Getting it into perspective.



The risk of contracting Salmonella from reptiles is a favourite reason cited by anti reptile keeping groups, for reptiles not to be kept as pets. These groups frequently misinform the public quoting biased figures, facts, reports and worse case scenarios in their attempts to distort public perception of reptiles and stop our hobby.
Whilst it is imperitive that we acknowledge the association between reptiles and Salmonella, we must keep it in perspective.

People contract Salmonella from many different sources, such as food ( eg, in 1985 16,000 people were infected by milk in the USA), far more frequently than from reptiles, yet we still eat and drink these associated items.
With the wide range of animals carrying zoonotic diseases, including pets and livestock, it would be absurd to expect all contact with these animals to stop.

Reptiles are only associated with 7 or 8 species of Salmonella where as you could find 12,500 in youre kitchen.

In herpetology we are striving to improve the standards in which reptiles are kept, it would be prudent to include this topic in education leaflets aimed at prospective reptile owners.

Hobbyists need to be aware of the wider picture aswell. Salmonella doesnt just infect the people in direct contact with reptiles, if hygiene is poor then it could be spread to many people. There have been cases where one person has unknowingly infected numerous people through there job, eg a hospital pharmacist keeping reptiles could infect hundreds of people.


Education is the key. It can be passed on via reptile shops, societies, publications, seminars, tv, schools, the options are endless. Reptile shops are usually a first contact and should take on this responsability seriously if they wish to promote the hobby, acting as role models and encouraging safe practices. Education will promote prevention. As a result, hopefully there will be fewer cases of reptile associated Salmonella, then we can relax and enjoy these wonderful creatures, content with the knowledge that we are promoting the health of our pets and ourselves.


Article written by A Nelson
Disclaimer. This article is only a brief over view of the topic in the title and the author suggests further reading on the topic

Angi

[zarozinia]

OOOOPs I forgot to log my husband out, lol. The above post was from me
Angi

[Missy]

Oh, yeah...

I want to apologize again, Missy.

I really did mean I was sorry.


its in the past now alias47, no worries and like i said to norbert03
you werent being mean really i was just being emotional that day, it sucks being a girl when those days come round, you sit there crying to yourself and yet you always have no idea why. LOL. and dont worry i will continue to kiss my snakies.

haha, copy and paste, im too lazy to re-write the post out. lol


back on topic here, thats a lot of information to take in angi, lol, thanx for that also.
now i am a very worried person and health is something im always worrying about, there are soo many things now that are fatal, without being funny but salmonella from my snakes is not at the top of my worry list. i hardly ever wash my hands after handling, always before though.
:)

[zarozinia]

Hi Missy
Im not wanting to scare people, hence my article coming from the angle of putting it all into perspective.
But washing your hands following touching any animal is always wise, but most people dont do it. Only unfortunately in our hobby we have an even better reason to do so, the animal activists work very hard to stop the keeping of reptiles as pets, and I understand in some states in the USA they have very sadly succeeded in one way or another. By doing our bit to prevent the speard of salmonella from reptiles we are giving them less amunition against us.
Let me tell you about one of those babies that died. The baby did not live in a household where reptiles were kept, in fact it was the grandparents that kept reptiles. I do not know if they washed their hands or not but we do know that they had a free roaming reptile. Hence the reptile touched many onbjects in the house that a baby would touch, including the clothes of the grandparents. The poor little soul suffered and died in hospital, tests proved that the strain of salmonella came directly from one of their reptiles. How devastating for them all. What a tradgedy.
If we can all start washing our hands afterwards then it will go some way towards preventing any further unnecessary deaths. The germs left on our hands will be transferred to anything we touch in and outside our houses ( one hospital lab worker even took his germs to work and was responsible for an outbreak in a hospital, it was proven). It has also be proven that the salmonella bacteria can remain on objects for many years ( a snakes shed skin hung on a wall was shown to harbour salmonella many years after being shed)
Some illnesses we do have some control over and others sadly we dont, we all have a responsability to ourselves, families, friends and the wider community in not taking unnecessary risks, it only takes minutes to wash hands - it could save a life!
Please excuse me for getting on my soap box, but the general public complain so much about the clealiness of hospitals, but if people only followed simple hygiene measures there would be so much less illness in the world. Gets down quietly of soap box.
Happy New Year everyone, make your new years resoloution be handwashing, lol.

[babbaloo99]

Hi everyone. I always wash my hands after handling or cleaning my snakes and their vivs. I always imagine there are germs on the snake from crawling around their viv and across possible poop in the substrate and I don't like the thought of my hands being contaminated with these germs. I'm of the theory that just cuz I don't see it doesn't mean its clean. :)

[WhiteLips]

Let me add my two cents..... yuk guys (and gals) :-puke01: who almost never wash their hands
The number one way to prevent ANY illness to reptile, human, or any animal is to wash your hands! before and after. If you haven't taken microbiology or history (thousands of people have DIED over time (and still do), because of non-hand washing)- just take a minute to think.... why do they put that sign in the public rest rooms....
Employee's must was their hands before returning to work....
Happy New Year (I hope everyone stays healthy) :)
Your resident registered nurse!