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4 regurges in a row

dionythicus
02-09-2005, 05:36 PM
My baby spits up every time I feed it. It's in a critter keeper inside a 20 gal, with UTH. I've gone at least 10 days between feedings. No handling, no disturbing it in any way. Twice I've tried pinks, then just a head and then a day old pink with slits in the back to aid digestion. He attacks the pinks, eats great, then two days later it comes back up. Its always two days without fail. Does this sound like a problem with digestion since its the same amount of time? I'm thinking it was probably not a good feeder to begin with, since I got it from Petco and they wouldn't know about its history. Any other advice?

MegF.
02-09-2005, 05:42 PM
What temps are you running in your viv?

CAV
02-09-2005, 06:06 PM
Two days indicates that the food isn't being digesting in a timely manner. That also leads me to question temperature as well.

Are you feedin it in the Kritter Keeper or is it living in the Kritter Keeper??

dionythicus
02-09-2005, 09:22 PM
It lives in a critter keeper and is fed in a separate one. I have three other babies in the same type of set up and they are all fine, no problems with digesting and they only have top heat, no UTH. The temps are in the mid 80's to 70's.

CAV
02-09-2005, 09:26 PM
What type of thermometer are you using to measure the temps?

dionythicus
02-09-2005, 09:51 PM
One of the ones that normally sticks to the side of the tank. I use one and move it from tank to tank to get readings. I placed it on the substrate in this particular keeper and it came in about 85. Too hot?

cornsnake00
02-10-2005, 07:33 AM
The purpose of a UTH is to give your snake belly heat.This aids in digestion.You are asking alot by providing heat from above.Just because your other snakes are doing fine doesn't mean all snakes will do fine.Maybe there is another health issue with this snake.

Skye
02-10-2005, 09:31 AM
Everyone is focusing heavily on temperature here, and that is certainly one of the leading causes in regurgitation.
I would certainly recommend a digital thermometer with indoor/outdoor probe which you can use to better effect. The stick on ones are not really very accurate. It doesn't matter whether you provide heat from above or from beneath, but you need to ensure that you have the correct temperature range day and night. It wouldn't be so good to have 70-80s in the day, and then a drop to 60s at night.
As long as your temperatures are in the right range then you have another problem. Once you have checked out the temperature issue, I would be thinking of a parasitic problem as my next likely candidate, hence a vet trip would be required.

carol
02-10-2005, 11:33 AM
I'd also try placing a small edge of the UTH under the tank, give him about 14 days rest and try a head again. You may also want to purchase some nutri-bac to see how that works. I'd also strongly suggesting getting a fecal test done, they aren't very expensive but could save your whole collection if there is something lurking.

TripleMoonsExotic
02-10-2005, 11:47 AM
Does the baby have the opportunity to thermoregulate properly? I know you stated the temps, but can he get away to a cooler side? Is their anyone or anything that could be disturbing him? I have a tiny ruby-eyed ghost that likes to regurgitate any time she's the least bit disturbed. After feeding, I don't even open her viv until at least 4 days after her meal so she doesn't regurge.

I would consider taking the little guy to a vet...

Joejr14
02-10-2005, 02:36 PM
I hate to say this, but usually 3 regurges in a row means death for a little one. You need to be very careful with this.

I'd definitely get some NutriBac or GSE to help this guy out.

dionythicus
02-10-2005, 03:19 PM
I've seen posts from other people about more than three regurges means it won't make it. That's what I'm most afraid of.

It does have a cool and warm side to the keeper. I also have two others in similar set-ups with UTH and three with top heat. No problems. I haven't bothered this one at all (except refreshing water) for more than two weeks and certainly not after feeding.

Does anyone know the dosage for Nutribac in a neonate?

Thanks for the help.

Joejr14
02-10-2005, 03:20 PM
I've seen posts from other people about more than three regurges means it won't make it. That's what I'm most afraid of.

It does have a cool and warm side to the keeper. I also have two others in similar set-ups with UTH and three with top heat. No problems. I haven't bothered this one at all (except refreshing water) for more than two weeks and certainly not after feeding.

Does anyone know the dosage for Nutribac in a neonate?

Thanks for the help.

I have no idea about the dosage. I know Kathy sells it on her website, you might want to give her a call and see what she says. Worth a try, anyway.

dionythicus
02-10-2005, 03:39 PM
Will do. Thanks.

howiet4702
02-10-2005, 03:45 PM
I've seen posts from other people about more than three regurges means it won't make it. That's what I'm most afraid of.

It does have a cool and warm side to the keeper. I also have two others in similar set-ups with UTH and three with top heat. No problems. I haven't bothered this one at all (except refreshing water) for more than two weeks and certainly not after feeding.

Does anyone know the dosage for Nutribac in a neonate?

Thanks for the help.

My snow corn had a very bad case of the regurges. She regurged 3 times in 4 feedings. I brought the snake and the Nutri Bac off of Kathy Love. She helped me tremendously!!!


What I did with the Nutri Bac was sprinkled the f/t prey all over with the powder. She was regurging whole pinkys and even half pinkys. So what I did was feed her pinky heads every 4 days for about 1 month. I used the Nutri Bac everytime! You have to take it real slow with these problems especially after 4 regurges...Since then, she has eaten great for me. I still use the Nutri Bac at every feeding. She is now up to 2 pinkys per feeding..

Good Luck!

dionythicus
02-10-2005, 03:54 PM
Thank you. I'll be ordering the NutriBac today.

howiet4702
02-10-2005, 04:24 PM
Thank you. I'll be ordering the NutriBac today.

That's great..I swear by it..I think it kept her alive but I could be totally wrong. Kathy might have you put it in her drinking water too.

kathylove
02-11-2005, 02:12 AM
but just in case, I am going to post my reugurge FAQ here, since we are talking about 4 regurges. It can usually be solved IF CAUGHT EARLY and treated seriously. Hope it helps anyone who may have this problem.

Subject: regurge treatment


THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune system can take over. See my website for more details, or go here:
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Nutribac%20information.htm

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed, it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15 years or more.

Good luck!
Kathy Love

CONTACT INFO:

CORNUTOPIA / Kathy Love
Captive-Bred Cornsnakes

WEB: http://www.CornUtopia.com
TEL: (239) 728 2390
Backup tel. # 239-691-4414 (Cell)
EMAIL: kathy@CornUtopia.com
*** Please CALL anytime between 9:00 am and 9:00 pm, Eastern Standard Time> (same as for New York City), to further discuss any aspect of our business!

howiet4702
02-12-2005, 01:13 PM
Thank you. I'll be ordering the NutriBac today.

When do you plan on feeding her again?

dionythicus
02-12-2005, 01:18 PM
Well the regurge itself was this past Wednesday, so I was going to wait until at least next Sunday and give it ten days minimum.