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regurgitation

penny
03-01-2005, 02:22 PM
my yearling amel regurgitated two small mice last week. this was the first time she had had mice, previously she was on 3 fuzzies a week. She did seem to take an age swallowing the mice, but she is not the best feeder anyway.

This week I have put her back on fuzzies, which so far she has kept down, but the chap at the petstore said she was big enough for small mice. should i try her with one mouse at her next feed (rather than two) or stick with fuzzies for a few months?

jazzgeek
03-01-2005, 02:39 PM
Regurges can happen for a number of reasons, "too large/too many" being just one of them. The idea is to go with a "process of elimination" (figuratively AND literally!) to determine the cause.

FWIW, whenever I move up the ladder in prey size, their first feeding is one. Once I'm sure they're digesting the new size properly, I'll continue with one until I see them "searching for more"; for some snakes, that's the very next feeding, for others, three or four feedings down the road.

Whatever my opinion is worth, I'd go with fuzzies for two feedings after the regurge, then move to one adult.

regards,
jazz

princess
03-01-2005, 03:22 PM
Make sure you let her go 10 full days with NO FOOD and MINIMAL HANDLING to let her rest and recover from the ordeal of the regurgitation. Then feed her only 1 fuzzy after 10 days have passed along with some nutribac if you can get it. If all goes well there, wait 5 days and feed her one fuzzy only again...if that goes well, go to 2 fuzzies for the 3rd feed again 5 days later, if all is going well at that point, post on the forum agian and we'll tell you where to go from there. Please don't be in a rush to get your snake back onto full size mice..patience is better in this kind of situation.

Good luck, Adèle

thelyonsking
03-01-2005, 08:00 PM
Slightly :-offtopic

Not that I've had one, but I was wondering...

When is a regurge an official regurge versus a spit out? Like, is half a mouse down but then out a regurge?

Also, do regurges usually happen fairly soon after eating, or does it vary? I assume, the longer its been (and the farther down the mouse has gone) the harsher it is on the snake.

I'm trying to imagine the mechanics of it, as they certainly don't have projectile vomiting like my kids do :-puke01: I can't believe how painful and exhausting it must be. :eek1:

gardenmum
03-02-2005, 12:14 AM
Penny, I agree with Jazz. I think your problem was jumping too much too fast. It is fine to jump up the size of the prey if they are eating two or more of the smaller size for a while, but it should always be ONE of the next size and stay on one for a while till the snake looks like that prey size is "not enough" in the belly (i.e. hardly shows as a lump in the belly once swallowed). That would be the time to add another. By jumping to two larger items, I believe you taxed the stomach with too much to digest at once that the stomach wasn't ready for and it had to "come up."

Definitely stick to one fuzzy for a few feedings, you need to build the digestive system back up again. You really want to avoid repeated regurges at all costs. Too many regurges in a row could spell death. After a few feedings of the fuzzy, slowly add back up to the three the snake was used to getting before, making sure that the snake keeps down each jump back up in quantity before adding more. Then when things look like the snake is handling all three again without a problem, jump up to ONE larger prey.

Good luck. Things should be fine as long as you don't push the build back up.

Drizzt80
03-02-2005, 12:31 AM
A final note on gardenmums information (great BTW), I notice you went from fuzzies to small mice. How about Hoppers? I think that would be a much better choice for you than small mice. Of course, it could be just my perceptions of what a fuzzy, hopper, and small mouse are considered!

D80

gardenmum
03-02-2005, 12:33 AM
When is a regurge an official regurge versus a spit out? Like, is half a mouse down but then out a regurge?

There is a difference between a regurge and "spitting out." If the snake starts to eat the mouse and gets startled by anything and they quickly "back up" and spit out the mouse, that is not a regurge, it is simply spitting it out to make a quick get away from the "trouble."

A regurge is when the prey is swallowed into the stomach and is expelled sometime later, either as a basically whole mouse still or as a partially/mostly digested one.

Also, do regurges usually happen fairly soon after eating, or does it vary? I assume, the longer its been (and the farther down the mouse has gone) the harsher it is on the snake.

I have seen regurges take place shortly after a feeding up to a couple days after a feeding. I have even saw a regurge take place three days later, but this and the ones that usually happen the same day, have all been with snakes that were non feeders that were being force fed and were not in "top" health due to their reluctance to eat. I have only had one adult snake regurge on me, and that was way back when I first got into corns and got an adult female that wasn't in the best of shape and she regurged. Otherwise all of my regurges have been basically babies that were non feeders that I was working with. But others may have noticed other time limits and such.

As far as time spent in the stomach before the regurge, I, personally, haven't noticed any difference between one that regurged the same day and one that did so after two days. Except, of course, that the regurged item was much more digested on the second day. Either way/time, the snake not only regurges the food item but also bacteria from the stomach. It is the important fluids from the stomach that is lost with the regurge that causes a lot of the trouble.

I'm trying to imagine the mechanics of it, as they certainly don't have projectile vomiting like my kids do

Can't say as I have ever heard of projectile vomiting in snakes. You can just imagine how long and all it takes for the snake to work that up from its stomach. Definitley doesn't sound like fun.

thelyonsking
03-02-2005, 07:10 AM
Thanks, Dianne . Very informative!

gardenmum
03-02-2005, 04:18 PM
You're welcome, thelyonsking.


Dritzz, yes you are right in that it is best to jump one size at a time. But, in a mild defense to the jump of a few fuzzies to a small adult, I have hoppers and small adults and have decided to do away with the small adults as, often after I thaw them, there is little enough difference in the size of many of them. Not enough to make any significant difference to me anyway. In fact, I have noticed that the small adults do have more hair and a little bit more size but are leaner compared to the hoppers which are normally "plumper." This is just my view of this.