Goldfish?

[Danny232]

Hey guys I haven't been here in a while but I was just wondering if feeding my adult cornsnake a feeder goldfish would be a bad idea. would he even eat it? lol i dont think it could hurt him and would it be good for him as far as nutrition goes?

[Sisuitl]

I occasionally feed my corns fish, and here is what I have learned about it.

1. Goldfish contain an enzyme called thiaminase. It destroys thiamine (vitamin B1) so even if you supplement them it will still be destroyed. Snakes can get a deficiency from being fed goldfish too much. Some symptoms are loss of co-ordination, head waving, balance disturbance, anorexia, weakness, and finally convulsions and death.

2. Most fish from pet stores have parasites or are very likely to have parasites.

3.Thiaminase can be destroyed by heating the fish in 180 degree F water for five minutes. This would probably also kill parasites, but I'm not 100% certain about that. It does make the fish very messy to feed though.

Why do I feed fish? Well, I raise tons of guppies. My culls go to my garter snakes, but occasionaly there are too many for the garters to handle. Since they have been in my possesion for several generations, and I was very careful to deparasitize the parent stock I feel that the risk of infection and parasite transmission to my snakes is minimal. Also, the guppies make up a very small portion of their diet. About once every 1 or 2 months. The rest of the time they eat mice. So far they have suffered no visible ill effects, and are growing at the same rate as the corns that refuse fish.

Some of my corns love the fish and have fun "stalking" them. There are a few that are like "what the heck is in my water bowl!?!" and some that totally ignore them.

Personally I would avoid goldfish, and avoid feeding them fish from pet stores.

[MichaelBoyko]

Wait, do you feed them LIVE goldfish in the water bowl?!

That must be hilarious to see them strike at!! In fact, I want pics now! 8-P

[Sisuitl]

Not live goldish, live guppies. And yes it is amusing. I have to say, the garter snakes are WAY better at fishing than the corns. :rolleyes:

[Indyshark]

I would love to see pictures. Can you take some please?

[MichaelBoyko]

pixalated documentation!

Hehe - I just wanna see it!

[Sisuitl]

I'll see if I can get my hands on a camera. It will be a little while though, since the current batch of guppy fry is way too small.

[MichaelBoyko]

Well I've suscribed to the thread so I'll wait...

/me Sits down and starts humming the stars wars theme

[cocoasumatran]

just a point... don't want to sound like a goody two shoes but if you live in england it is illegal to feed your snake live food. It's not like anyone would know and you probably don't even live in england but it's relevant and I thought maybe you would like to know... :shrugs:

[Sisuitl]

Ahh, good old USA. Thanks for the heads up though. I doubt I will ever move to England, but if I do I'll keep it in mind. :)

[cocoasumatran]

yeah it seems that one of this country's biggest animal welfare charities, the RSPCA (royal society for the prevention of cruelty to animals), doesn't like people keeping snales / "exotic" pets for some reason. They have managed to get laws passed to stop us feeding live food to our snakes (but like I said before, how would they ever know!?... unless they hide out on this message board looking for english ppl who feed live mice to their snakes :crazy02: ). They have also managed to get reptile fairs at which livestock is for sale banned :eek1:

[cocoasumatran]

hahah i just noticed my typing error... i meant snakes, not snales... although they probably don't approve of people keeping snails either! :headbang:

[cocoasumatran]

:angry01: :angry01: :angry01: :angry01: :angry01: :angry01: AND they've made it really expensive to buy snkes compared to elsewhere. there's also not as much variety availble... I don't understand why - there's more cases of animal cruelty involving dogs, cats etc than "exotic" pets, Maybe we'll be stopped from buying puppies too :shrugs:

[Itsnowingcorns]

I know exactly what you mean cocoasumatran. Is it illegal to feed fish to your snake though...? Fishing is legal, and I think having a hook pierced through your lip, then having it yanked out and being thrown back into the water/ left to suffocate hurts a whole lot more than being eaten by a snake.... LOL. The RSPCA really confuse me sometimes.

[cocoasumatran]

supposedly you can't feed live fish to a snake (in fact a couple of years back someone got jailed for feeding small fish to bigger fish and taking bets on which of the small fish would survive the longest!), but if you have something like a garter snake you can give them crickets and other insects (WOW!)

it seems stupid that if a snake would eat a live mouse in the wild, why can't it do the same in my house!? :shrugs:

[Itsnowingcorns]

it seems stupid that if a snake would eat a live mouse in the wild, why can't it do the same in my house!?
My thoughts exactly, not that I would feed live.

[cocoasumatran]

there is an organisation called the fbh (federation of british herpetologists) http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/ who are able to host reptile fairs as the RSPCA has not yet been able to affect members only reptile fairs. If you go on their website there is a link to a massive petition to change the policies on the keeping of snakes and other 'exotic' pets...

[cocoasumatran]

In the current RSPCA policy document “Policies on animal welfare” (revised 2003) it is stated that:-

“Exotic animals such as snakes, lizards and terrapins often carry disease, are difficult to look after and are rarely provided with adequate facilities. Such animals are unsuitable as companion animals”.

:angry01: :angry01: :angry01: :angry01: :angry01: :angry01:

[Sisuitl]

Yeah, over here in the states there are several states debating whether or not to ban exotic pets. There are a lot of people (myself included) who are furiously writing letters. I've got a lot of friends who keep tigers/cougars/grizzly bears etc. and I feel much safer at their homes than I do with the "friend" who has 5 beagles who always snarl and bite my legs. They even ran down the street aftera little kid and tried to bite her. Of course every one was like, "aww, beagles are peaceful, they were just playing and saying hi."

Grrrrrr.... :angry01:

Anyway, a lot of these groups are backed by an organization called PETA (dun dun dun!) who have stated on their website that it's their mission to make sure ALL animals will become illegal to keep, even cats and farm animals, and that it will be illegal to eat meat as well. Actually, there are some PETA members in England who are on trial (or were last time I read) for attempting to murder a restaurant owner who refused to stop serving meat at his place.

Anyway, if anybody here is interested, I can give you contact info for some groups who are against banning exotics.

[cocoasumatran]

yeah I know just what you mean. There's one friend who I won't even visit any more because I'm scared stupid of her big doberman - I'll tell you now I wouldn't be scared of anything living in a viv even if it was deadly because it's safely in it's viv and not running round the house barking at me and showing it's teeth!!!!

“Exotic animals such as snakes, lizards and terrapins often carry disease

Also these animal organisations go on and on about snakes etc transmitting disease to humans. Well I've never ever heard of someone getting diseased from a snake / lizard / TERRAPIN(!?) ["sorry I can't come in to work today, I've caught a life threatening disease from a terrapin!"] from a pet shop... but how many people are affected by FLEAS!? And then there's the whole issue of rabies...

...are difficult to look after and are rarely provided with adequate facilities.

I know every pet requires looking after... but most of them take a hell of a lot more looking after than the humble corn! I mean thank god I don't have to take my snake to the park for a walk every day, wait for him to take a dump, then put in in a plastic bag in my pocket and take it home again :-puke01:

I mean everyone's got to work (unless they're really lucky) and it seems so unfair to leave a dog locked in the house all day on its own, but the snake has it's own litle world so it's not loney and bored when you're not there!

I for one live in a little rented flat so if I did have a 'conventional' pet like a cat or dog I could not provide it with adequate facilities as i have no garden etc and it would be cooped up inside the flat all day... but my little corny has everything he needs...

Such animals are unsuitable as companion animals”.


Well perhaps they don't know as much about animals as they think they do...

[cocoasumatran]

I guess I'm preaching to the converted... but I had to have my little rant!!! I know these charities save a lot of anmals and do a lot of good in the world but sometimes they just don't know what they are talking about and give people like us bad reputations...

[Sisuitl]

*pats you consolingly on the shoulder* There there. That's perfectly fine. Actually the sad thing is, they know EXACTLY what they are talking about. We have spies on the inside in their groups (not like we need them since they are so open about the objectives and tactics anyway, oh well). The disease argument is a really standard tactic against reptiles and amphibians. People don't know any better and it scares them into passing bad laws.

So is the "they're wild so it's cruel for them to be captive, it's hard to take care of them properly, blah blah blah" argument. The whole strategy is to exploit the public's ignorance. It is our duty as herpers to educate the public, so when they hear these things, they'll know better.