Various problems, weirdness, and a death...

I'm extremely confused and sad with the events that've been happening around here lately. My adult snakes really have me concerned. For the past few weeks, they've been feeding very rarely, despite me offering them something every weekend.

I had two gravid females. One of them mysteriously died the other night. She was perfectly fine earlier in the day, and had even taken down the mouse I'd offered her (she'd not eaten in the past three weeks though...), but was stiff as a board later in the evening. Needless to say, this is very, very upsetting. My other gravid female, who's due to lay her clutch here within the next couple of weeks, has absolutely refused all and every meal I've offered her in the past three weeks. Is this NORMAL? She normally eats like a pig, but ever since she was put with her male awhile back, she's not had any interest in food whatsoever. I'm worried because she's carrying eggs very obviously, and I really don't want her to become hurt or sick or anything.

I couldn't get anyone to eat for about three weeks in a row until tonight. I finally tried the chicken broth idea and got my adult ghost male, blizzard male and leucistic rat to eat. My opal still didn't eat, and he's acting... odd. Very, very active, kind've pissed-off and ignoring his food. He was another one of my piggies, but has no interest at all right now. Is he still wanting to breed? Is he sick? I don't know... but he was the one that bred to the now deceased female, so I'm twice as paranoid because I don't know what killed her.

Could this all be because of the breeding thing? Everyone is living seperate right now, but could it jsut be that time of the year? How can I make sure my opal is alright?

Also, it looks like EVERYONE is being active right now, hatchlings and adults. They look like they're looking for food, but I just fed all the little ones on Sunday, so what's the deal?

Sorry for your loss and I'm going to apologize for what I'm about to say.

If you didnt know what to expect (ie. reading up on breeding and behavioral changes, etc) regarding breeding, then why did you breed?

Gravid females USUALLY go off feed after they've mated and are gravid. It's not only normal, but there is really no reason to offer food again.

Males will sometimes also go off feed during this time of the year----they have sex on the mind, not food.

How old was the female that died on you? How big was she (ie weight in grams and how long was she)??

It's 4am, snakes are active at night----that's not abnormal.

Sorry about your loss. How far along was your gravid female and what size meal did she eat? If she was very loaded with eggs, and ate a large meal, that may have been the problem.

Joejr14 said:

Sorry for your loss and I'm going to apologize for what I'm about to say.

If you didnt know what to expect (ie. reading up on breeding and behavioral changes, etc) regarding breeding, then why did you breed?

Gravid females USUALLY go off feed after they've mated and are gravid. It's not only normal, but there is really no reason to offer food again.

Males will sometimes also go off feed during this time of the year----they have sex on the mind, not food.

How old was the female that died on you? How big was she (ie weight in grams and how long was she)??

It's 4am, snakes are active at night----that's not abnormal.

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First of all, I DID know what to expect, I've been researching this for the past year before buying my adults and trying to breed them. But after reading 20-something websites, talking to a hundred or so breeders of various experience levels and visiting five reptile shows, you get a lot of clashing information. So far, everything had gone fine, but then it didn't go so fine, hence me asking this right here. It's not like I went out, splashed down $400 to buy two pairs of breeding animals and then killed one of them for giggles. I've had folks tell me to offer her food all the way uptil the week she has her pre-lay shed, I've had folks tell me not to offer her food from the time she's been bred to two weeks after the lay, everything. This is why I'm asking this question -again-.

The female that died was nearing four feet in length, I don't have a weight on her. The man I bought her from was reliable, sounded experienced, and had bred her the previous year. He was also the one that told me to feed up until lay.

And that post wasn't made at 4am, it was more like 2am and they'd been acting unusually enthusastic since 10pm, when I got home. Normally when I get home, maybe one or two are out and about and the rest start to show up around midnight, but EVERYONE was out, so it struck me as odd.

Susan said:

Sorry about your loss. How far along was your gravid female and what size meal did she eat? If she was very loaded with eggs, and ate a large meal, that may have been the problem.

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She had only been bred about two weeks ago. The meal was a medium-ish mouse. If that ends up being what killed her, I'm really going to hate myself...

Labinnah said:

She had only been bred about two weeks ago. The meal was a medium-ish mouse. If that ends up being what killed her, I'm really going to hate myself...

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It might be. When they're full of eggs there isn't a lot of room to digest a meal, and an adult mouse could have done that---but I guess you'd think she would have regurged it.

Most people on here will say to feed until she refuses---and then dont offer until after she's layed.

There is no way, at only two weeks along, that the meal is what did her in. Did you take those animals in for a vet check when you bought them? Did you quarantine them after purchasing them?

You said in your first post that you have a male opal....yet in your sig it says you have a female......

Do you have two, or am I missing something?

Just curious and sorry it's off-topic.

They'd both been quarentined when I first got them back in September. I hadn't taken them to the vet because everything seemed alright, they showed no signs of anything being wrong during the time that I had em. \

As far as the opal thing, it's a typo in the sig that will now be fixed. He's a big boy, about three feet long and has a decent disposition. I wish his colours were better though... he never really got very pretty, just some faint peach-ish and lavender markings. *sigh* Oh well.

Thank you guys for the replies and sorry if I seemed snappy. I'm just frusteratd with this whole thing.

Sounds like a typical opal to me---white and ugly.

I'm not at all a fan of opals--they just dont do much for me---especially given their price.

Have you thought about taking the female to the vet for a necropsy?

Labinnah said:

First of all, I DID know what to expect, I've been researching this for the past year before buying my adults and trying to breed them. But after reading 20-something websites, talking to a hundred or so breeders of various experience levels and visiting five reptile shows, you get a lot of clashing information.

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This does not seem to be the case. First, 20 websites mean nothing in the way of breeding knowledge. Second, if you really did talk to a hundred breeders, after being on this site with all the knowledgeble people, you'd be able to know which breeders to listen to. Even if you hadn't visited this site before asking all those breeders, common sense would tell me to listen to the ones who have been breeding longer, as they obviously have had more success in getting eggs to hatch.

Laninnah said:

And that post wasn't made at 4am, it was more like 2am and they'd been acting unusually enthusastic since 10pm, when I got home. Normally when I get home, maybe one or two are out and about and the rest start to show up around midnight, but EVERYONE was out, so it struck me as odd.

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The point is that it is night time, late at night in fact. The fact that it's breeding season is going to mean that your snakes will act a little differently. This is normal and should be expected.

Labinnah said:

I'm extremely confused and sad with the events that've been happening around here lately. My adult snakes really have me concerned. For the past few weeks, they've been feeding very rarely, despite me offering them something every weekend.

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Again, this is a condition of breeding season. Most of them have nothing on their minds aside from spreadding their genes around and trying to procreate.

Labinnah said:

My other gravid female, who's due to lay her clutch here within the next couple of weeks, has absolutely refused all and every meal I've offered her in the past three weeks. Is this NORMAL? She normally eats like a pig, but ever since she was put with her male awhile back, she's not had any interest in food whatsoever. I'm worried because she's carrying eggs very obviously, and I really don't want her to become hurt or sick or anything.

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Another case tied to breeding season. I wouldn't suggest trying to feed her until after she lays. When my female rejects her first meal while being gravid, I usually only offer one more meal. If she refuses again, then I don't try to feed her until I have eggs. Don't worry about the odd behavior right now. It will go away after the breeding season is over.

Labinnah said:

My opal still didn't eat, and he's acting... odd. Very, very active, kind've pissed-off and ignoring his food. He was another one of my piggies, but has no interest at all right now. Is he still wanting to breed? Is he sick?

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This, again, is a result of breeding season. When all the females stop giving off phoremones, all your males' behavior will return to normal.

after reading your first 2 posts, I am convinced that you didn't read a book, and that you kind of stumbled into this a bit. It is also apparent that you didn't really read up on this site much. Hopefully this second female doesn't die as well.

BTW. How old were the snakes that you bought? You said you got them as adults, but never mentioned age. If your female was old enough (this is a BIG if) she could have had complications dealing with the eggs, which may have resulted in death.

E. g. guttata said:

This does not seem to be the case. First, 20 websites mean nothing in the way of breeding knowledge. Second, if you really did talk to a hundred breeders, after being on this site with all the knowledgeble people, you'd be able to know which breeders to listen to. Even if you hadn't visited this site before asking all those breeders, common sense would tell me to listen to the ones who have been breeding longer, as they obviously have had more success in getting eggs to hatch.

after reading your first 2 posts, I am convinced that you didn't read a book, and that you kind of stumbled into this a bit. It is also apparent that you didn't really read up on this site much. Hopefully this second female doesn't die as well.

BTW. How old were the snakes that you bought? You said you got them as adults, but never mentioned age. If your female was old enough (this is a BIG if) she could have had complications dealing with the eggs, which may have resulted in death.

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God forbid I make a mistake first time breeding...

Yes, I talked to a LOT of people. Yes, a lot of EXPERIENCE and REPUTABLE breeders gave me a LOT of difference advice. This has already been covered. And yes, I've been on here before. Here, Faunaclassifieds, Kingsnake, etc. That "common sense" led me to buy the two that I did from a man who's been working with cornsnakes for over 10 years (according to him) and gave me the advice on how to go about breeding them. No, I did not go out and grab the first pair of adults I came across, if that's what you're thinking.

Didn't read up much? I'm asking questions here, NOW, because what's going on contradicted a BIG part of what I read up on. Sorry, no, I haven't been doin this since I was a toddler, but I've been working on it for the past year and a half. I didn't wake up one morning, grab a couple of paychecks, jump out the window and land at a reptile show and just start buying stuff.

The snakes that I bought were from '00, and had been bred before. PLEASE read the rest of the thread before making such an offensive and presumptious reply.

Labinnah said:

God forbid I make a mistake first time breeding...

Yes, I talked to a LOT of people. Yes, a lot of EXPERIENCE and REPUTABLE breeders gave me a LOT of difference advice. This has already been covered. And yes, I've been on here before. Here, Faunaclassifieds, Kingsnake, etc. That "common sense" led me to buy the two that I did from a man who's been working with cornsnakes for over 10 years (according to him) and gave me the advice on how to go about breeding them. No, I did not go out and grab the first pair of adults I came across, if that's what you're thinking.

Didn't read up much? I'm asking questions here, NOW, because what's going on contradicted a BIG part of what I read up on. Sorry, no, I haven't been doin this since I was a toddler, but I've been working on it for the past year and a half. I didn't wake up one morning, grab a couple of paychecks, jump out the window and land at a reptile show and just start buying stuff.

The snakes that I bought were from '00, and had been bred before. PLEASE read the rest of the thread before making such an offensive and presumptious reply.

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You never stated that you had done anything but talk to a bunch of breeders and go on web sites to get breeding advice. That leads me to believe that you never picked up a book or asked advice here FIRST. That is all I said. I answered all your qusetions reguarding the odd behavior you're seeing. I also politely asked the age of the snake, as that was omitted earlier. I was just making sure the snake was not 12 or 13 ears old and nearing the end of her life already. Sorry for suggesting that that may have been a problem when no age was ever given. I never brought your age into this at all. I never said that you went out and picked up the first adults you saw. I am simply requesting more info. All I wanted to know is if you got snakes that were old, and I assumed that you went to too many biased sites, that you talked to a lot of people, but because you couldn't figure out who was right, went out on a limb and used some combined info. I also assumed that you didn't read this forum or kingsnake, or fauna, because you never mentioned any of them. You just said that you went to websites. when ther eare thousands of sites, that doesn't narrow anything down. I'm sorry you took offense to my post, as most of it was nothing but answering your questions. This last post of yours is highly defensive, and largely seems to be you putting words in my mouth. Please read what I said again before you decide to go off on this kind of crusade again. OH! and BTW, mistakes for first time breeding happen to everyone. I did not slam you for this, I jus said that it doesn't seem that you did good reserch, seeing as how all your questions can be answered with the same answers that you'll find all over the forum and that I have supplied you. At least you'll be better prepared next time you breed. Good luck with this clutch you have coming.