Regurge HELP!

[steprice]

right i know ppl are gona shout for not using search but i wanted a personal reply to this question. i moved my 9 month old up from pinks to fuzzies a few weeks ago, he's taken 1 fuzzy every 5 days twice now, but the third time he has regurged. he shed last night and i fed him a few hours afterwards and he took it no problem. any help on what i should do now, or what you think is the reason for regurgitating would be great im a worried first time snake owner!

thanks

[breedingcolors]

Hope she don't mind but I copy what I received from Kathy Love when I got one that regurge. Follow this exactly and you will have good chance of keeping your snake. Also be sure that the temperature is ok.



*Subject:* regurge treatment


THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice
or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies,
unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very
important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS
BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling
too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug",
or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice,
it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY.
But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted,
and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each
time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up
until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not
know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly
does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8
days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a
newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head)
If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling).
Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a
whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no
regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a
week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and
repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT
rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this
seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a
newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6
successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days,
but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes
stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after
a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10
days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or
less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an
area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or
cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some
sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural
remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as
strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has
been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe,
as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not
burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat
alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are
absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a
vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the
vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to
mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that
the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has
my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for
other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck
treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a
local health food store or online. Please refer to the
following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine
powder containing seven different microflora that should be
inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress,
disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a
supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural
balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune
system can take over. See my website for more details.

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not
set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different
formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my
customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed,
it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only
hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save
your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting
with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's
care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby
established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first
month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15
years or more.

CONTACT INFO:

CORNUTOPIA / Kathy Love
http://www.CornUtopia.com




Hope this will help you. Good luck!

[MegF.]

Make sure you check your temps before you get started on the rest. Too high, as well as too low can cause regurg. Make sure you check it at the substrate level, and not just in the air.

[steprice]

thank you for that, the thing that baffles me is that i havnt changed anything at all from the last few times i have fed. the only possible recent change which maybe could effect it is that due to shedding recently i have removed the humid hide. could this of had a big effect on temperature, sufficient enough change to cause a reguruge? i didnt handle my snake after it ate and its meal was no bigger than the last 2 times which it has eaten fine. he still seems lively and is moving around even jst an hour or so after regurging.

thanks again

[princess]

I also had an inexplicable regurge a month or so ago and as long as you take it easy, your corn should get better. It's very upsetting, but as long as you don't rush things and follouw the advice in post #2 you'll be OK...the snake too!!!

[steprice]

ok well im just wondering about the food size, been rackin my brains all day, this might help to decide whether im right to be feeding fuzzies. the picture below is of him eatin a pinky, this was roughly 3 weeks ago, the feed before i moved him upto fuzzies as he managed 2 pinkies and i was advised by many on these forums.

http://img197.echo.cx/img197/1869/image0055ep.jpg

[steprice]

sum1 reply?? jst an update im buying a thermostat incase of problems with heat

[gardenmum]

steprice, if I understand what you are saying, you fed one meal of two pinks and then moved up to a fuzzy. Before you move up a size, you should feed a few feedings of two pinks to be sure that the snake is handling it well. And another suggestion, when you move up to fuzzies, also move the feedings further apart. Five days is good for one pinky, but too close for fuzzies. The snake needs time to digest and be totally ready for the next meal. I would go to 6 days when on the fuzzies. Then when they start on two fuzzies and up, go to seven days. When an adult and fully filled out, some can go every two weeks before they are fed, but that is only for large adults that maintain weight extremely well.

And definitely make sure the temps are proper, you should definitely have a thermometer at each end, with the probe part into the bedding a little for accurate temps as to what the snake is getting on its belly. Many times it you may find that you can get away with the temps being a bit low for babies on a single pink and you may think all is ok with your temps, but as the prey gets larger, being more to digest, the temps really need to be where they should be.

I hope you get your little one past this regurge and good luck. Just be aware that multiple regurges in a row is very, very dangerous for the snake.

Best. :)

[MegF.]

You were too quick for me Dianne. I was just going to suggest feeding multiple items a few feedings before moving up. Also be aware that occasionally, they regurge and you never know why. My aztec regurged once, and I never was able to determine what caused it. She's fed f/t so no parasites, and the temps were good. She's never done it again (knock on wood) and it's been almost a year.

[steprice]

ok well im going to go back down to pinks for a lil while now as suggested, and then move back onto two pinks for a couple of weeks then back onto fuzzies, providing everything goes ok. im abit confused as my snake has actually been much more active SINCE the regurge witch is rather baffling to me! its as if he's hungry, altho i no not to feed for @ least 10 days!

[steprice]

the other thing was, the picture of him eating....does that look he's eating the right sized meal to you guys, or do you still think he should really be on fuzzies at 9months old. any help is appreciated, please help a corn snake newbie! hehe :grin01:

[steprice]

any1................?

[gardenmum]

Steprice, a suggestion........you have to consider the time you are asking your questions. There are very few people up on the forums between midnight and 4 am. And many who are on the forum at midnight are in the chat room, chatting, not reading the threads. When you ask a question, wait a while, if the question isn't answered by the next day, then ask again. :)

It is not so easy to tell in a picture all the time, but it LOOKS like it should be able to handle two pinks fine. And you can't go by age. I have some 9-10 month olds that are 22 - 28 inches long and are eating two fuzzies with ease, and I have some that are only 15 - 18 inches that are on large pinks or two large pinks still. They all grow differently. What you want to be sure of is that the food, once in the belly, is a noticable bump but not a huge bump. If the bump is huge than they are eating too much or too large an item. If the bump is barely noticable then they can go up to two of the same size prey item and then up to one of the next size prey item.

Hope this helps.

[steprice]

well i recieved my thermostat and thermometers today, so they are now working away getting my lil sienna perfect temperature! hopefully that will sort the problem. il update you guys again when she's eaten hopefully it will go ok! fingers crossed!

[steprice]

lol i got another question. should i feed a pinky head or just the smallest pinky i can get? my snake it 9 months old and was managing a pinky without even leaving much of a lump before this regurge. just want to avoid cuttin a pinky up if possible lol, sounds abit gruesome to me, but it if it really necessary i will do it.

[steprice]

ANY1? no1 seems to be answering on this thread anymore lol.

[Mary-Beth]

Maybe you should try giving them a day to answer your questions like gardenmum suggested. I for one don't know the answer to your question so you still hafta wait :p

[gardenmum]

A rule of thumb would be to feed a baby a pink head if it was eating a pinky a meal and follow that up with another pink head and then the pink bodies - all appropriately spaced apart. But with your size snake I would go with one small pinky. Notice I said small. Even though it was eating two pinks, it wasn't eating two pinks for that long, so I would ere on the safe side and go with one small pink. Do this for two feedings (7 days apart minimum) and then go to a large pink for a couple feedings then up to your two pinks. OF COURSE upping the feedings is all condintional on that the snake does NOT regurge again. I have my doubts that you will have to worry about any regurges though if you have your temps up to par, but just in case it does happen, you NEED to go back to square one and start over. The one thing you have to remember is not to get antsy and rush the process, that could very well set you back. Take the time to work it back up on its feedings and the results should be good.

Good luck.

[steprice]

fanx guys, and i apologise for my impatience, its just, when your panicking and worried you want answers as quick as possible lol.