Corn suffocating! Any input appreciated.

[Pikaia]

Our otherwise appearantly healthy 5yrs old male cornsnake suddenly got ill today. We heard some unusual noises from the cage and saw the snake violently coiling up and he looked like he was attacking a prey or something. When I got over to the cage I could see his teeth had hooked onto his skin further down his body, and his mouth was wide open and full of substrate (some wood shaving). I immediately took him out and gently rinsed the substrate out of his mouth with lukewarm water. He has a disturbingly blueish colour inside his mouth and was having a hard time breathing.

During the last three hours he has gone limp on several occasions, not responding to touch or anything else, seems as if he looses his consciousness. I'm afraid he'll die pretty soon.
I've tried to get in touch with a vet, but no luck today. Might be able to reach someone tomorrow...but I fear that might be too late.

I really don't understand what could be causing this, as he has been very healthy and shown no signs of any illness earlier.
He mated with a female just a couple of months age, and has been eating well and otherwise been in perfect condition. He had some troubles shedding a couple of days ago, but some misting took care of that.

(Please excuse my bad english, I'm Norwegian and also rather worked up over the situation... :uhoh: )

[Derek_cornsnake]

look in your phone book at a all pets hospital. Im from N.d. North Dakota and in Grandforks they have an all pets hospital. They said to me if i have any trobles what so ever just bring him in and they will take a look at him. I would do that if I were you. I hope he feels better. I just lost a okette a new one he was so small he just slipped right threw the cage. I was so sad. I have to big corns. A snow and albion black. snow 2 feet and one 1 and a half. see ya.

[cocoasumatran]

I'm afraid I don't know what the problem is but it sounds serious...

All I can think of would be to replace the substrate with kitchen towel to stop him getting any more in his mouth.

Make sure there is plenty of heat in the tank and your snake has plenty of fresh water.

Then call every vet in the phone book - they will often have an answering machine message telling you what to do to contact a vet in an emergency situation.

I really hope your snake gets better... be sure to keep us posted.

[Pikaia]

I wish it was that easy. Here in Norway we have very few dedicated animal hospitals, and none that are open 24/7. Reptiles are also illegal in this country, so very few vets have any experience with them. I have been in touch with two vets today, but neither had any knowledge on the matter and thus couldnt' be of assistance. The only veterinarian that accepts reptiles is not answering the phone. I guess I just have to wait and see if I can reach him in the morning.

Thanks for replying anyway :)

[cocoasumatran]

I didn't realise finding a reptile vet could be so difficult out there...

You could try searching for a vet in another country via the internet and telephoning them for advice. www.yell.com is the yellow pages site to search for vets in the uk. Maybe you will be able to find someone to help you.

Otherwise if you can wait long enough I'm sure someone on this site will be able to give you more information - there are some really experienced snake keepers.

I really wish I could help you further but I can't think of anything further that could help you.

[Pikaia]

Thanks, cocoasumatran. I have him alone in a terrarium on a towel, and he has high temps and fresh water.

I've called all the vets I have found, but only reached two and they both refused to see him because they had no experience with reptiles. I got the same answer when I called the number for emergencies. Guess I'll have to wait 'till the morning :(

[gardenmum]

There isn't much of anything we can do to help you out to get him better as this could be just about anything. I do not think that he is suffocating as you think he is since the wind pipe is located at the base toward the front of the mouth therefor it can't get something caught in its thoat and choke like we can. I have seen baby snakes die while bitting themselves and from what I have heard it is due to inner pain that they are trying to bite at. A suggestion on possibilities is poisoning of some sort. Either from a prey item feed or substrate or cleaning the container with something too strong for the snake. The substrate, I would bet, was picked up in the mouth while the snake was thrashing, in other words a result of the problem, not the cause of the problem.

A thought.....if you know where it was biting itself, figure out what organ is in that spot and it may be this that is the problem.

I hate to say this, but normally when a snake is that far in bad shape, there is not much of anything that can be done to save them. I do wish you all the best though and hope I am wrong.

[Forrest]

I had read elsewhere that sometimes mating may introduce one snake to bacteria that it is not accostumed to and result in illness. If one of his organs got infected with a bacteria, he may have been trying to bite at it. Also, perhaps the bacteria took time to cause a problem. Perhaps your snake needs an antibiotic.

Please don't hold me accountable for thi but if you cannot find a vet, human antibiotics (i.e. tetracyclin, etc.) might work. The key mechanism for many antibiotics is that they attack the ribosomes of bacteria, which are inherantly different than those of animals (variations in the sizes of the subcomponents). So, a human antibiotic that works in that way should work on snake as well because their ribsomes should be immune from the ribosome attack. If that is your course of action, I recommend verifying that the antibiotic attacks ribosomes (webmd.com, physician, etc.) and not using 100 to 200mg because these antibiotics can still affect the mitochondria (energy production) of animal cells (that's why you get tired when on some antibiotics).
So, that's some wild speculation, to be used only as a last resort.

[Pikaia]

Almost six hours has gone by since I found him now, and he looks like he's going to make it after all.

I really think he was suffocating, both because of the heavy breathing and most of all the blue color in his mouth. He kept pushing ut the air-pipe but no air seemed to pass. He turned completely limp with no muscle activity whatsoever on several occasions, and the color in his mouth turned dark blue/ blackish.

In shear desperation I grabbed small air-hose from our aquarium, pushed it tight against one of his nostrils, covered the other one and gently blew into the tube. I could feel his lung filling with air and as I let go it gently seeped out again. We did this a couple of times every time he turned blue. I have no idea if this helped or if he would get by on himself anyway, but he seems to be alot better now.
He's breathing freely, the color in his mouth is the usual pink and he responds with muscle activity, and turns his head when touched.

I'll leave him alone over night and see how he's doing in the morning. I'll probably take him to the vet either way.

Thanks for the support guys :)

[Pikaia]

I had read elsewhere that sometimes mating may introduce one snake to bacteria that it is not accostumed to and result in illness.

(...)


That sure sounds like a plausible scenario, but our two snakes have been living together and produced offspring several times for the last 5 years. They have been together in the same terrarium since they were juveniles.

If had introduced him to another snake during last mating, your theory would absolutely be worth a shot though. Thanks for the input :)

[MegF.]

I would keep the viv temps up until you can find a vet. I hope he does recover. How stressful for both of you!

[Sisuitl]

I'm glad he's doing a little better. As long as your are super gentle (which it sounds like you are) at the very least it shouldn't hurt him. There's probably a small risk of bacterial infection from "human air", but when the choice is between him suffocating and dying, or a mild chance of infection, the choice is clear.

Let us know what the vet says when they examine him. Personally I've never heard of this kind of problem before.

Good luck!