Eating problems...

[Okke]

Hello ;-)

I bought some mising black corns about 5 months ago but they alway's (most of the times) have eating problems... When they eat living or dead mice they almost everytime puke their food up after a day of 5/6. Even though they still eat the mice every time without problems and even shed their skin almost every month without any problem. Also one of the snakes laid eggs without any problems. It seems to me when they have indigestion problems they also dont want to eat regulary and also having problems with shedding their skin and so on. But none of this is a problem because thats not the point. Although they dont take much food to make a big pile of crap (because they throw up there food after almost a week) Only they take a smile crap from time through time. But it doesnt look as it has to be :-( Does anyone know what kind of problem this snake's have? I kept many snakes for years ago but this thing did never happen before to me. So can anyone help me out?

[breedingcolors]

Not sure I understand you perfectly.

Can you start by giving us the details: quantity you bought, what age they are, etc.

It is really serious when snakes regurge and they can die very quickly if they always regurge. You should read this thread. It contains the FAQ of Kathy Love about regurge.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20965

What is your setup? Temp, humidity, hides, etc.

[Okke]

Thanks for your quick reaction ;-)

I keep them the same way like I alway's did by normal temperature and they have enough hiding spots in the enclosure where I keep them. I keep them at normal living room temparature's but if they want they can heat themselves by the lamps. They can take a bath (under one of the lamps if they want)Other snakes did never had these problems altough I think when i bought them they just came out of there hybernation period as I was told. They must been arround 3 years old and they did had eggs last year as told. But you and I both know that people say things sometime but is that true also? For now I keep them in an enclosure with a heatingmat under it so I have to wait and see I guess, mayby its also an idea to use nutri-bac for feeding the snakes with it also through inject the mice with it before eating them? puke01:

[Okke]

I almost forgot to mention I also keep snakes in the same enclosure who not have these regurge problems, but this threesome alway's seem to regurge even though they look very healthy and do not have other problems at all...

[breedingcolors]

The better temp would be around 75 low temp and 85 hight temp. Normal temp don't help me very much since it depens where you live. I live in Canada and if I would put my snakes at room temperature, it would be too cold in winter and too hot in summer.

Yes nutribac inject in the mouse help but you really need to follow exactly the instructions as describe in the FAQ if you want to keep them for long.

You keep them in the same viv? How many are they?

[Joejr14]

There's so much wrong I'm not even sure where to start.

For one, you need to seperate your snakes immediately.

Secondly, you're contradicting yourself. In your first post you said they're regurging their food, but shedding fine and look healthy. Then two sentences later you're saying that they're having problems with their sheds. Which is it?

If you bought these snakes still in brumation and then offered them a full sized meal without warming them back up, that might be the start of the problem.

Regardless, you simply cannot keep feeding them food and having them puke it back up. If you keep that up, you are going to wind up with dead snakes.

You MUST seperate the snakes, and then try feeding them something much smaller, like a fuzzy. Make sure the temps are in the low 80's and if they hold the fuzzy down, feed another one. If it holds that down, gradually start moving up to small mice. After two fuzzies, feed two hoppers, then a small mouse or something.

I cannot stress enough that if you don't do something about the regurging your snakes are going to die.

[Okke]

Hello again,

I live in Holland so we use an other temp scale as yours but it is not a problem with my other kept snake's I guess its arround the same as your temperaure as you keep them in... I just looked its around 75 /85 so thats not the problem they also can choose how they want it a cool spot or a hot spot so that would make no different. I just think they got some sort of bacterial problem but just as I said they shed good alway's, they want to eat (in three or four weeks so I don't over feed them like that) alway's and they even lay eggs... You see I am not a beginner in this hobby because I breed different kinds of reptiles in the past but this is new for me. I did bred bearded dragons early'er this year. I breed years back lots of corns with almost no egg losses at all. I bred Tilliqua Scincoides Gigas and Sand boa's So you see I am not a beginner at all....

[Okke]

Joejr14 keep your eyes open and read better...

They do not have shedding problems so keep your comment to yourself ok... what kind of ass do you think I am I am not a beginner so don't begin talking crap like that ok!!!


Thank you ;-)

[Joejr14]

Joejr14 keep your eyes open and read better...

They do not have shedding problems so keep your comment to yourself ok... what kind of ass do you think I am I am not a beginner so don't begin talking crap like that ok!!!


Thank you ;-)

Excuse me, sir, but my eyes are quite open.


When they eat living or dead mice they almost everytime puke their food up after a day of 5/6. ,b>Even though they still eat the mice every time without problems and even shed their skin almost every month without any problem.</b>


It seems to me when they have indigestion problems they also dont want to eat regulary and <b>also having problems with shedding their skin and so on.</b>

So again, which is it?

[Okke]

And I do not keep them together at this time with other snakes in the same enclosure anymore so dont think I am stupid....

Just to keep you updated.

[breedingcolors]

What are you trying to do Joe? Make all people go away??? Continue like this, you are on the good track. :mad:

[Joejr14]

Are you 100% positive that the snakes are regurgitating after 5 or 6 days? Your sure that it is a regurge and not feces?

[Joejr14]

What are you trying to do Joe? Make all people go away??? Continue like this, you are on the good track. :mad:

What are you talking about? Nothing I said was out of line.

[Okke]

I supossed if they had bad indegestion problems they would have problems with shedding their skin and not want to eat also and also don't liked to mate and lay eggs am I right?

[Joejr14]

I supossed if they had bad indegestion problems they would have problems with shedding their skin and not want to eat also and also don't liked to mate and lay eggs am I right?

Regurgitating or a poor digestion problem has nothing to do with bad sheds. Bad sheds are a result of an incorrect environment, usually low humidity.

I'm still confused.

Didn't you say that one of the problem snakes laid eggs?

[breedingcolors]

What are you talking about? Nothing I said was out of line.

This is not always about what you say but how you say it. You make people become aggressive.

I too notice that he had a couple of problems. Did I bash him? No. I asked him questions and try to help him. Not just trying to prove that I have all the answers and try to blast anyone who is making a mistake. You never did a mistake Joe?

[Okke]

Yes they still did eat and shed without problems and even one laid eggs without any problems. But the guy I bought them from did cool them off in the winter (hybernate) But I never did that myself. So just as you I am confussed what kind of problem they have because I keep snake many years without any problems like this. Maybe I bought a bad bunch maybe thats why they where that cheap 3 missing blacks from 2 and a half years old for about fifty euro's that would be around perhaps 70 dollars...

[Joejr14]

This is not always about what you say but how you say it. You make people become aggressive.

I too notice that he had a couple of problems. Did I bash him? No. I asked him questions and try to help him. Not just trying to prove that I have all the answers and try to blast anyone who is making a mistake. You never did a mistake Joe?

I asked him why he was contradicting himself in saying they didnt have shedding problems, but then later saying they did. I was trying to figure out which was the correct part.

I did not bash him. I never said that I have or had all the answers. The fact remains that if his snakes keep regurging their meals they are going to die---there's no disputing that if they are in fact regurging.

[Joejr14]

Yes they still did eat and shed without problems and even one laid eggs without any problems. But the guy I bought them from did cool them off in the winter (hybernate) But I never did that myself. So just as you I am confussed what kind of problem they have because I keep snake many years without any problems like this. Maybe I bought a bad bunch maybe thats why they where that cheap 3 missing blacks from 2 and a half years old for about fifty euro's that would be around perhaps 70 dollars...

3 missing blacks? I don't understand.

My only suggestion would be to try and get a fecal done on all 3 of them, try some grapefruit seed extract or nutribac and skip down to smaller meals in hopes to stop them from regurging.

[larryg]

Taking a wild guess... Missing Blacks could mean Hypos maybe. Amels are missing more than black, I'm guessing...

[Okke]

We call them here in Europe normally Missing Blacks but I guess you call them Amels... I guess some people don't understand things and read things very well... They only try to find another problem to bash people or something else like that to start a thread with ;-)

[larryg]

The Amels I've seen are Albinos, lacking all pigment except for tones of red and white. This means no yellow, no brown, etc. Any albino animals tend to have more problems than their non-albino counterparts, and I've read people complain about unhealthy albino pythons and boas that stop eating and die after a few years. If nothing else, they are very inbred. You can always say you have Albino Corns, to avoid any possible confusion.

[PtDnsr]

The Amels I've seen are Albinos, lacking all pigment except for tones of red and white. This means no yellow, no brown, etc. Any albino animals tend to have more problems than their non-albino counterparts, and I've read people complain about unhealthy albino pythons and boas that stop eating and die after a few years. If nothing else, they are very inbred. You can always say you have Albino Corns, to avoid any possible confusion.

Actually because of the coloring of cornsnakes, there are two types of albinos (the yellow gene has not been isolated alone to my knowledge - unless you include butter but that's a Serp question). Amelanistic (amel), or lacking black, is a type of albino as is anerythristic (anery), or lacking red. Using the term "albino" can be ambiguous. Just thought I'd throw that in there. If anyone who knows more can comment on the yellow coloration I'd appreciate it.

~Katie

[Joejr14]

We call them here in Europe normally Missing Blacks but I guess you call them Amels... I guess some people don't understand things and read things very well... They only try to find another problem to bash people or something else like that to start a thread with ;-)


I understand things quite fine, as long as they're explained well. Over here, we call snakes that have no black on them amelanistics, not 'missing black'. There is no cornsnake morph entitled 'missing black'.

The only correct name for a cornsnake that has red eyes and is made up of the colors red, orange, yellow and white, without any black would be amelanistic.

I'm sorry that I'm not up to speed on the European slang for cornsnake morphs.

Asking what 'missing blacks' meant was not a bash, it was a legitimate question.

[TBurkeIII]

as joe said...you definately NEED to reduce the size you are feeding. i would also add that you NEED to wait a while from when they first re-gurg to when you feed them again. if they throw up, wait at least ten days in my opinion before you try feeding again. this will give their digestive system some time to relax. take it real slow in getting them back up to size of normal feeders.

and definately seperate them!!!!!

[exoticpetz]

There's so much wrong I'm not even sure where to start.

What are you trying to do Joe? Make all people go away??? Continue like this, you are on the good track
Well spoken, I`ve tried to mention this previously but I lost my cool doing so

What are you talking about? Nothing I said was out of line.
I felt that first cut and paste was a bit demeaning.

This is not always about what you say but how you say it. You make people become aggressive.
Well spoken, I`ve been one of those people

Joe, I think you`re a bright guy and benefit to the community here. But some of the things that you say are delivered in a demeaning manner. I don`t know if you realize it as you type it, but it appears as a pattern behavior IMHO. I really hope that you realize that " Grand Bubble Burster" isn`t necessarily a term of endearment. In spite of the fact that you`ve helped a countless amount, it appears that you`re bent losing what respect some of that help warrants by treating people as tho they`re inferior in some way.

[exoticpetz]

We call them here in Europe normally Missing Blacks but I guess you call them Amels... I guess some people don't understand things and read things very well... They only try to find another problem to bash people or something else like that to start a thread with

You referance to Amels as Missing Blacks is the first time I`ve seen it by any of the Europeans that participate on this forum.

Don`t worry about Joe`s ability to read, his raw intelligence is plentifull. I seriously doubt that anyone read anything that you posted without considerable effort. It doesn`t appear as though English is your first language.

[Mary-Beth]

There's so much wrong I'm not even sure where to start.

For one, you need to seperate your snakes immediately.

Secondly, you're contradicting yourself. In your first post you said they're regurging their food, but shedding fine and look healthy. Then two sentences later you're saying that they're having problems with their sheds. Which is it?

If you bought these snakes still in brumation and then offered them a full sized meal without warming them back up, that might be the start of the problem.

Regardless, you simply cannot keep feeding them food and having them puke it back up. If you keep that up, you are going to wind up with dead snakes.

You MUST seperate the snakes, and then try feeding them something much smaller, like a fuzzy. Make sure the temps are in the low 80's and if they hold the fuzzy down, feed another one. If it holds that down, gradually start moving up to small mice. After two fuzzies, feed two hoppers, then a small mouse or something.

I cannot stress enough that if you don't do something about the regurging your snakes are going to die.

Can someone please show me where he "bashed" here?
I don't see it :shrugs:

While I agree that there have been MANY times when joe has come off WAY to strong, I don't agree that this is one of them. In fact, he didn't get aggressive until he was attacked in the post after the one I quoted.
I feel like some people have made up their minds that he is a jack*ss in every post he makes, and they interpret his tone in a way that he didn't mean it to be. Tone is extremely hard to get across when you're typing.

Okke, everyone has given you good advise. I hope you follow some of it instead of just going on the way you have been because you're "not a beginner". I've seen some of the most experienced breeders here asking for advise, it just shows that everyone needs help from time to time. :cheers:

[Joejr14]

Joe, I think you`re a bright guy and benefit to the community here. But some of the things that you say are delivered in a demeaning manner. I don`t know if you realize it as you type it, but it appears as a pattern behavior IMHO. I really hope that you realize that " Grand Bubble Burster" isn`t necessarily a term of endearment. In spite of the fact that you`ve helped a countless amount, it appears that you`re bent losing what respect some of that help warrants by treating people as tho they`re inferior in some way.

I don't think that I was demeaning in my first post to Okee, nor do I think I imlpied that he was inferior or anything of the sort.

'Grand Bubble Burster' is a joke---and if you take it literally well then, I don't know what to say.

Too many people take what is said online way way too seriously.

[Joejr14]

Can someone please show me where he "bashed" here?
I don't see it :shrugs:

While I agree that there have been MANY times when joe has come off WAY to strong, I don't agree that this is one of them. In fact, he didn't get aggressive until he was attacked in the post after the one I quoted.
I feel like some people have made up their minds that he is a jack*ss in every post he makes, and they interpret his tone in a way that he didn't mean it to be. Tone is extremely hard to get across when you're typing.

Okke, everyone has given you good advise. I hope you follow some of it instead of just going on the way you have been because you're "not a beginner". I've seen some of the most experienced breeders here asking for advise, it just shows that everyone needs help from time to time. :cheers:


Thanks, I appreciate the 'support'. I understand that many times I come off as being too harsh, or rude, or without tact, but that was not the intent here at all.

Too many people read something, interpret it their own way, and then jump. You cannot 'read' tone or intent, so judging one's tone/intent online is a tricky game.

Can't please em all. I'm not going to get worked up about it. :shrugs:

[larryg]

We call them here in Europe normally Missing Blacks but I guess you call them Amels... I guess some people don't understand things and read things very well... They only try to find another problem to bash people or something else like that to start a thread with ;-)

It sounds to me like you are afraid your snakes are dying, and you have asked for help. Someone replied, trying to help you. If your English is not that great, perhaps you should realize this and not attack others, when they fail to understand what you are trying to say. I didn't understand '3 mising blacks' when I saw it the first time, either.

I would suggest that since you live in Holland you should have an UTH - especially since the snakes were brought out of brumation, and you said yourself that you don't normally do that. I know people in Holland, and it's not exactly Florida, as far as the temperatures. Here in Florida we CAN get away without proper heating, at certain times of the year only. If you want your snakes to grow normally and be healthy, you should provide heat from UNDER the tank. Obviously not all Corns are identical, as far as how they tolerate variations in temps.

[Missy]

i highly agree with joe and larryg on this one.

i also say separate your little ones immediately.

also i too have to ask 'where exactly did joe bash anyone?'

i, for one, have a lot of respect for joe. the way i see most of his replies are, hes gets right to the point, honest and factual. theres no point in beating around the bush, ya know? for example, joe said "if your snakes continue to regurge they are going to die". thats not a bash at all, its a fact.

okay well ive said my part, i just didnt understand why some of you were bashing joe, when as far as im concerned, he had done nothing wrong here.
:shrugs:
thanx