Samonella

[Missie]

Has anyone here caught samonella poisoning from their corn? Both me and my boyfriend were recently hospitalized for 2 days with Samonella poisoning, which doctors believe may have come from my 2 year old corn. It is hard for me to believe that my precious little babe could have given us this, especially considering: we always always wash our hands before and after handling, and advise anyone who holds her to do the same. She also gets her tank cleaned regularily with chlorexidine (not sure of spelling), and water changed daily. So as far as im concerned, it would be pretty hard to contract samonella from her unless we were licking her back or something, or holding her and not washing our hands etc. etc.
So just wondering if anyone else has contracted samonella from their snakes?

[Mary-Beth]

I've never caught it from my snakes or my frogs, and I had frogs for about 10 years. Every now and then I will get distracted after I put a snake back in it's viv and forget to wash up right away (sad side effect of having a 5 year old lol) and I've never had salmonella.
It's far more likely that you guys caught it from something you ate then from the snakes, especially because you BOTH have it.

[oldhand]

It's far more likely that you guys caught it from something you ate then from the snakes, especially because you BOTH have it.

Agreed, not sure but the figures i looked at a while ago said then 1 person in every half million, MIGHT contract salmonella from a snake, but even then it is very unlikely.

[Missie]

turns out the salmonella likely came from our corn afterall. a little gross but we had to have stool samples done to begin with which showed that salmonella was present. then after having a health inspector call, they ordered a stool sample from my snake, and ran a DNA test which showed the same strain of salmonella present in her stool. snakes however may not show symptoms of salmonella like humans do... so they say. although my corn has now been off food for about 2 months and not eaten. since we just found out that it likely came from her, i have put her into isolation, new clean tank with only paper towels lining it, and she still has yet to eat. i really dont know how salmonella affects snakes so if anyone has any info on this that would be great. i always thought snakes natually carried the bacteria, then recently "heard" (so i dunno if this is true) that they contract the bacteria through some contaminated mice? anyone know about this? i buy adult frozen mice through a pet store, and ny corn was eating an adult a week.

[graffixcs]

All people and most animals have salmonella to some degree, so to hear the snakes stool sample contained it is not surprising at all. It is usually in such small amounts in the natural balance that it rarely becomes an issue. It is a small part of the natural bacterial makeup that is life. It is only when this bacteria blooms in large numbers (for bacteria) that it is recognised as a problem.
I would ask the health inspector why the snake could not have contracted it from you. It sounds like it could have been an "easy out" for the report to me.
"If" the bacteria came from say, chicken, which is notorious for this, then they would have to work to find out where it came from and ummm ... work.

Anyway, I hope you are both better now.

[Mary-Beth]

I would ask the health inspector why the snake could not have contracted it from you. It sounds like it could have been an "easy out" for the report to me.
"If" the bacteria came from say, chicken, which is notorious for this, then they would have to work to find out where it came from and ummm ... work.

Anyway, I hope you are both better now.

That was my first thought too, and my second, and my third. lol

I hope you guys are healthy now, and I hope your snake eats soon. :cheers:

[Knight_errant]

I'm no expert on Salmonella, which I why I could never understand how a snake could get that if it's never been in contact with a chicken, chicken product or any other food source that might contain such. It never occurred to me that a snake would be born with it to some degree.

As many kids as there are out there who handle snakes without washing their hands, you'd think there'd be a LOT more incidents.

Get well soon,

Erik

[Quigs]

It sounds like it could have been an "easy out" for the report to me.
I was thinking precisely that as well. I'm not saying that it's not possible, but somehow I think if the info about having a snake was not disclosed, this would have been taken more seriously. It appears as it was essentially "written off" as you to blame.

Do you have a local herp vet? I'd be inclined to give him a shout.

Hope you two are doing alright now.

Q

[MegF.]

There have been cases of salmonella poisoning from reptiles, but almost all of them were small children (infants and toddlers) that contracted it from the parent after the parent let the snake climb on their clothes. I don't know if snakes can contract salmonella from people as we can from them, but I suppose it's a possibility. There are a couple of people on the forum that are into microbiology and could probably tell you.

[Missie]

indeed.. i did ask the health inspector if it were possible that perhaps we passed the salmonella onto the snake, and it was ruled out as the symptoms occur 12-72 hours after being in contact with salmonella. the entiore time we were sick we chose not to handle the snake as it could have been passed on. we are also not meat eaters so did not come in contact with chicken, or the also notorious for salmonella: raw eggs, well water, rodents/livestock etc. i honestly dont believe that it came from her, but am wondering if it was perhaps the f/t mice. a new pet store opened in the town where i live and i bought 5 of their adult frozen mice (i usuallu buy them from in the city). all 5 of these mice she refused, and still is refusing the mice i had previously boughten. according to the health inspector, there is no exact way to pinpoint where we contracted it, but because of the strain of salmonella, it proves it did come from that of a reptile/amphibian. althought this could also mean we even contracted it from eating at a restaurant (where possibly someone with the same strain of salmonella... and bad hygeine may have handled our food). terrikble to think i know. we are feeling better but my snake has yet to eat. i do not know of any herp vets in the area, so i am scared for snakes life, she has gotten pretty skinny and dark looking, and it is unusual for her to have refused food this long, especially with no shed. that is generally the only time she wont eat. thatnks for all your comments guys, i really appreciate it, and will let you know how NOva is doing if anything changes

[xKGLVRx]

Has your snake eatien yet? Is she doing alright. I sure hope so.

[Rainbow Hues]

I realize this thread is an old one but I just wanted to add my .02 worth. I have been ill for over 3 weeks and yesterday I finally found out that I have salmonella. The health department and my doctor told me that I got it from my snakes but I think I got it from the frozen feeder mice I had thawed out. I have over 40 snakes and I do not hold them because there are too many, I clean out their tanks with Virosan and I wear gloves. The incubation time for salmonella is 12-72 hours which puts in the right time frame for the mice and not the snakes. I was just wondering if anybody had any information on salmonella and mice. Thanks!

RH

[Kat]

This is definitely an interesting thread...

I have had two snakes die of samonella over the years. My suspicion was that I was letting the mice thaw too long and/or not catching it when they poop in the water dish soon enough.

Even when I was dealing with the sick snakes, I never caught samonella from them...
If your snake has samonella and hasn't fed for two months, she probably isn't going to make it. Quarrantining her is definitely a good move.

-Kat

[Kat]

I need to finish my coffee... I misspelled salmonella throughout that post...
-Kat

[Gintha]

Treasure's fecal exam came back showing a HUGE HUGE salmonella count, and I handle him constantly (hes out prolly 5 hours a day) hes touching my face, my eyes, my mouth... and hes been doing this for almost 10 months... and my immune system SUCKS. I haven't gotten salmonella from him yet... and doubt I ever will. When I was diagnosed with Influenza, they tested me for salmonella (mom told them I have snakes and turtles) and it came back at a normal, non-infective level. When I found out about the super high salmonella count in Treasure's little body, I looked up fact based cases of snake - human transference of salmonella... 15 cases world wide (that were recorded) from 2000-2005. Not really too worried about it hehe.

The one time I had salmonella, I got it from a salad at a local restaurant, all veggie salad, and the strain tested as from mammal digestive tracts... so... either the chef had recently butchered something... or ermmm... cleaned someones bottom and didn't wash his hands EWWWWW. Restaurant was fined, but not closed.

[Kat]

Indeed. Improperly washed/prepared vegetables and fruits can harbor salmonella, E coli, and a host of other nasty bacteria just as easily as mis-handled meats.

-Kat

[Gintha]

In our lab, we are actually growing ecoli 0517 (most deadly strain) on ground carrot and ground pork... the carrot ones grow and reproduce faster (only slightly) than the pork ones... it kind of surprised me at first. We don't really do much with salmonella... as its "curable" whereas e0517 is deadly in a lot of cases (in infants and the elderly... only 12% survive e0517... while a healthy adult its closer to 67% survival =/) There is some salmonella work done here by veterinary PhD students, I sent them an email to get some info on transference... hope to hear from them soon, tho I don't know.. finals start soon!

[Rainbow Hues]

I got a copy of the lab report and the form of salmonella I had was Salmonella enterica arizonae. I did look it up on the internet and this particular form of salmonella is found mainly in reptiles and most often in snakes. Just how I got it I have no clue as I do not handle my snakes but the salmonella got me anyway. Just thought I would pass the information along

RH

[Gintha]

Thats amazing! Salmonella enterica arizonae is one of the rarest forms! Not much I found to link online, but I can tell you its VERY VERY rare, usually only found in infants and the elderly.. heres what it can cause:
Gastroenteritis is the most common presentation; others include peritonitis, pleuritis, osteomyelitis, meningitis, bacteremia, and UTIs (urinary tract infections)
Its presented by the reptilian and amphibian families, most commonly found in snakes, but from what I've read, most commonly passed to humans by amphibians. Should be a decent amount of info here : NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/) some old cases and maybe some more info on the strain itself. (I need to head to bed, or I'd look around the site for you hehe)

Let us know how you are doing, I know salmonella isn't fun at all.

[Lennycorn]

May I ask, what kind of treatment is the doctor giving you??

[Rainbow Hues]

I am much better at this point. My doctor told me that this is one of the less harmful salmonella germs (compared to typhoid) but I thought I was going to die. I was first admitted to one hospital for severe dehydration, kidney insufficiency, and acute gastroenteritis. This hospital did the necessary cultures and I was released after about 24-hours of intense hydration therapy. This hospital never contacted me, my doctor, or the health department about the results of the test. My doctor finally got the test results after I was admitted to a second hospital for a possible GI bleed. The first hospital had the results of the culture about 3 weeks before my doctor found out about it. He then contacted a specialist in infectious disease and was told that I should be put on a course of sulfa. The only dietary restrictions I have is no diary products for another week. I think I would not have had such a hard time if I had been informed of the culture when it came back positive for salmonella. I have lost a total of 4 weeks of work over this thing and you are right it is not fun! Thanks for your concern!

RH

[Gintha]

Glad to hear you're on the mend =) Sulfa is what they had me on for the salmonella I had, it works nice and fast =) I too was told not to have dairy products, which sucked... I live off dairy... literally, its nothing for me to go a week with only milk, no food LOL. Must be a Bastetan thing *giggles* (Bastetan, since no one ever knows what it is, is the religious following of Bast, the Egyptian Goddess of cats, nature, love, and women)