what would happen if i mixed a snow and a blood red?

[wheeler78]

would i get a candy cane babies? i've never bred before and i won't till sheba is old enouf but i was just curious.

[Iris]

Not sure what you would get, but no candy canes.
I think candy canes are from amels and miami lines.

[Jr Nimeskern]

if you breed a blood to a snow then you would get all normal babys het for Anery A, Amel, and Blood... if you then breed the siblings of that pair you would have a possiblity to have a BloodSnow, and some other good looking snakes!!! If you really want to know the whole gamit on what you would get on the siblings just ask and ill work out the problem for you!

[Darin Chappell]

Assuming that bloodred acts as a simple recessive gene (it doesn't, but for the sake of any sanity left to me, let's just play along as if it does:D), the following would be the statistically expected outcome from 64 hatchlings:

1 normal het for nothing

26 normals het for the following:
2 het for blood
2 het for amel
2 het for anery
4 het for blood and amel
4 het for blood and anery
4 het for amel and anery
8 het for all three

9 bloodreds
1 het for nothing
2 het for amel
2 het for anery
4 het for both

9 amels
1 het for nothing
2 het for blood
2 het for anery
4 het for both

9 anerys
1 het for nothing
2 het for amel
2 het for blood
4 het for both

3 amel bloodreds
1 het for nothing
2 het for anery

3 anery bloodreds
1 het for nothing
2 het for amel

3 snows
1 het for nothing
2 het for bloodred

1 snow bloodred

So, whenever I hear someone lamenting about the 1/64 odds of getting a triple homozygous hatchling from triple hets, I always tell myself that there is also only a 1/64 chance of getting a simple normal too. That way, I can think about all of the interesting animals that can come about along the way to that 1 in 64 chance snow blood!

Of course, (back to reality) bloodreds are not the product of one simple recessive gene, and everything I just wrote is moot! But you get the idea about crossing triple hets. Have fun!

:)

[Jr Nimeskern]

I thought that bloods was a morph that was a simple recessive? If you mate a blood with a blood you get bloods! if you mate a AmelBlood with a normal that is het AmelBloods youll get AmelBloods??? am I understanding the recessivness to Bloods correctly?

[Darin Chappell]

Joe,

Personally, I believe that bloodred is recessive, but I think that it is the combination of multiple simple recessive genes. Others have different ideas about the bloodred being an example of either a codominant or partially codominant genetic effect. Who is right? I have no idea! LOL

Whichever of these two ideas is right, though, when you breed two bloodreds together you will get bloodreds. When you breed a bloodred to a het bloodred, you'll get about 50% bloodreds.

The problem only really arises when you are breeding two animals that are het for bloodred. That is when the crazy stuff starts to happen when you get bloodreds, near bloodreds, and normals with bloodred-like aspect (i.e. white bellies).

So, anytime I am talking about bloodreds and their "hets," I always add the little extra caveat so that people realize that I understand there is something more than a simgle recessive gen floating around there to explain the bloodred morph. That's why I put it as I did.

Hope that helps clear it up a little,

[wheeler78]

hummm wow it sounded simple in my head but i guess i might want to look into it more thanks for all the help so odd's are i have bout 1/64 chance of a candy cane? humm don't sound so well what if i mixed candy cane and a candy cane?

[Jr Nimeskern]

LOL you wont get a candy cane at all!!! candy canes only come from the HYPO and Milksnake phase corns! thats the only way you can get candy canes... the snow and blood mix will give you all normal babys het for Snow and Blood if you mate those siblings of your snow X blood then you have a 1/64 chance in getting a Snow Blood!...

Darin you cleared up alot for me on the bloods genes... I knew they had outcrossed characteristics that showed in normals... I think they sell them as outcrossed bloods?

All I know is that you have to tell me how your Amel Blood project is coming along next year! I would really like to know... If my AmelBlood is really AmelBlood then Im mating him to a Normal het Blood 66% het for HYPO... can you imagen if they are all pos. for what they are het for? I could in the future get a Hypo, Amel Bloodred!!! wont that be the day!

[Serpwidgets]

Personally, I believe that bloodred is recessive, but I think that it is the combination of multiple simple recessive genes.My own limited experience has already disproven that. I bred a blood to an amel and got a multitude of hatchlings expressing partial effects, such as the white stripe down the center of the belly. If bloodred components were all recessive, none of this would show up, it would be either On or Off.

I believe I heard Rich say before that he had gotten predictable results from breeding bloods. I'd have to hear from him to be sure what his exact position is.

Best I can tell one trait does act like a simple trait, which is the patternless belly. This is also the common "qualifier" for bloodreds. So from at least one perspective, IMO it is valid to say that "bloodred" is a simple (although I won't say recessive) trait.

I think the thing people don't take into account is that the "pure" look of the original bloodreds (the thin borders, lack of contrast, total lack of belly checkering and even peppering) was likely influenced by the ancestry of the originals. Other influences (such as Okeetee heritage or other complex pattern and coloration variations) can offset the "pure" look that people generally associate with the ideal bloodreds. IMO this is why it is difficult to use "outcrossed" bloods to recover a "pure" specimen.

For example, if the originals came from stock that already had very weak belly patterning, it could easily be assumed that the "trait" controlling plainbelly was a simple on/off thing. But cross in other influences, such as one with super-bold belly checkering, and that heritage asserts its influence and creates lots of peppering on the belly. Then it could be assumed that the pure white belly was due to multiple genes, and some of them were being lost with each outcrossing.

However, if it really is the case that the checkering is removed in a predictable ratio approximating 1:4 when breeding "het to het" then--whether or not the black speckling is present or how much of it there is--I think it is a reasonable logical conclusion (for the time being) to say that the "plainbelly" trait is a simple trait. I'd be curious to see if the "pure" plain belly look could be recovered again by breeding these speckle-bellied outcrosses to something with a more weakly-patterned belly...

candy canes only come from the HYPO and Milksnake phase corns!Candycanes are not hypo milksnake phase, they are exceptional examples of amelanistic Miami-like corns. But don't mistake this to mean that any amelanistic miami is a candy cane. It takes a lot of selective breeding to achieve that goal.

So, whenever I hear someone lamenting about the 1/64 odds of getting a triple homozygous hatchling from triple hets, I always tell myself that there is also only a 1/64 chance of getting a simple normal too. Heh heh, I won't be lamenting about that one. I have a pair of snows from a bloodred mother. :)I'm not interested in producing 63 "boring" corns just to find out what one snow-blood looks like. ;)

[Jr Nimeskern]

Thanks Serp for clearing that up... I was confused about the belly pattern...

How exactly do you get a orange candycane then? Is it the opposite process of getting a red candycane? The candycane morph confuses me even after I read it on your site and in the CSM! Oh well I guess this is the time to learn!

[CornCrazy]

post some pictures of the peppering on a bloodred's belly???

[Hurley]

Blood Belly

<img src=http://serpwidgets.com/freepics/Hurley/bloodbelly.jpg>

[CornCrazy]

I kept hearing everyone talk about the peppering , but I haven't seen any pics!

[Carlos]

I have a male that look like the original line, I will be breeding him to several females that I have includes Hypos and amelanistic bloods. This is his picture.