Anery Hatchling - not eating after 6 weeks

[logic]

Greetings...

I'm new to snakes and this forum, and recently purchased a anery hatch...
she is in her own viv, with plenty of hides, water, the temp ranges from 80 - 90 degrees...
she tends to spend the majority of her time in her tube...
from the research i've done, this is very common until she matures...

I do handle her every few days, but i've noticed she's a bit skittish at first...
but eventually calms down, she has not attempted to ever strike, but does rear back....

I usually feed her in a small critter keeper...
and all of my attempts have been days apart if not weeks...
here are the things i've tried...

- left a f/t pinky in the dark for 1-3 hrs
- 6 hrs in the dark
- over night in the dark
- braining
- live (i thought this would work for certain - it was a last resort)
- dangling
- teasing, while holding her (by slightly tapping her - not on her head) and trying to get her to strike (this was interesting, she actually went into a full alligator death roll until i released her)

- the f/t were warmed using tap water... i've even tried just leaving the pink out at room temp.... i do not touch the pinkies before feeding...

- some of the times i've tried, i've noticed, when i return the pinky has exploded- i did noticed, with the live, that when i returned, her lower half was rapped around the pink, but not strangling it - almost as if she was doing it for security or to feel more comfortable...

its been approximately 5-6 weeks and i have been unsuccessful in getting her to eat at all...

any assistance would be greatly appreciated...
thanks in advance....!!!

[drizzt_19]

Use the link in my signature for more ideas on things to try....

[logic]

I tried again last night with no success.

Thank you, I appreciate the information. I will try some of the recommendations listed.

[Blue Apple Herps]

Something that I tried last yr w/some of my stubborn eaters was dipping the pinky in "tuna juice." Get a can of tuna and drain it. Dip the pinky in what you drained. It worked for about half of mine that had refused other methods.

[Rorryy]

Has anything got your snake feeding? Six weeks seems like a long time to me but I am a NooB. How old is your snake? Do let me know (for future reference if dipping in tuna works) Please update!!

[cornsnakekid92]

try a lizzard secnted pinkies, or even a lizard for that matter

[TandJ]

Sounds like the Anery wanted to eat on a few occasions, but you disturbed the critter while she was doing her things. Death roll and wrapping around is normal. Did you try the deli cup method? Did you try scenting with an Anole? Did you try a week inbetween attempts of feeding? All kind of information out there for non feeders and picky feeders etc etc. If you would have checked through the board here you would have found your answers without posting your question!

Regards...

[Tracee]

6+ weeks is a long time for a hatchling. It seems as though you have really done your research and are doing the best you can. Good start, let's try some more ideas :) Some hatchlings are stubborn feeders, you just need to find what works for you.

Rearing back is normal, hiding most of the time is normal... Two things I have picked up on though: Firstly, your temps are a bit high. The other thing is that when mice 'explode' it seems to be because they were OVERHEATED. Maybe the temperature of the water you use is also a tad on the high side. Are you warming them up actually in the water, or inside a bag in the water? If you are not using a bag, you could try this. Theory is that the water can 'dilute' the smell.

Try braining again. Try the tuna juice suggestion (not heard that one before, thanks blue!). And when you do try to feed (at weekly intervals still), leave the snake inside a small container on paper towels with the pinkie for a longer time period. As TandJ identified, it could be that she's just very nervous and when you disturb her it puts her off eating. Hell mine's 6 years old and he still does that at times.

Good luck, please keep us updated.

[logic]

Has anything got your snake feeding? Six weeks seems like a long time to me but I am a NooB. How old is your snake? Do let me know (for future reference if dipping in tuna works) Please update!!


I haven't tried the tuna yet... I tried over the weekend by leaving the f/t in the viv with her... so I thought I should give it a few more days before another attempt...

[logic]

Sounds like the Anery wanted to eat on a few occasions, but you disturbed the critter while she was doing her things. Death roll and wrapping around is normal. Did you try the deli cup method? Did you try scenting with an Anole? Did you try a week inbetween attempts of feeding? All kind of information out there for non feeders and picky feeders etc etc. If you would have checked through the board here you would have found your answers without posting your question!

Regards...



I thought the same thing - unfortunately I am new at this and I just was not not 100% certain when to return... trial and error...
I have a snow, and he eats about 10 -15 minutes after I place him in the keeper.... no problems what so ever.... she is just more picky....

I haven't tried a deli cup; however, the critter keeper is fairly small...
Negative on the anole... I am not certain where I can find some, but that may be my next strategy.

Yes, I understand, but when I originally searched the forum, I did not find many posts where people had no luck for such a long period of time...
Not to mention, it's always good to get new feed back, and possible solutions that may not have been listed previously.

But, I do appreciate the feed back, thank you!

[logic]

6+ weeks is a long time for a hatchling. It seems as though you have really done your research and are doing the best you can. Good start, let's try some more ideas :) Some hatchlings are stubborn feeders, you just need to find what works for you.

Rearing back is normal, hiding most of the time is normal... Two things I have picked up on though: Firstly, your temps are a bit high. The other thing is that when mice 'explode' it seems to be because they were OVERHEATED. Maybe the temperature of the water you use is also a tad on the high side. Are you warming them up actually in the water, or inside a bag in the water? If you are not using a bag, you could try this. Theory is that the water can 'dilute' the smell.

Try braining again. Try the tuna juice suggestion (not heard that one before, thanks blue!). And when you do try to feed (at weekly intervals still), leave the snake inside a small container on paper towels with the pinkie for a longer time period. As TandJ identified, it could be that she's just very nervous and when you disturb her it puts her off eating. Hell mine's 6 years old and he still does that at times.

Good luck, please keep us updated.

Why thank you Tracee... I try... :)

Originally, I was placing the pinky directly under running water; however, after reading numerous posts, I've tried using a bag, and just letting them thaw at room temp.
I thought the temp may be the problem, but I have tried changing the temp the last few attempts with no luck... (the viv temp and the temp during feedings)

Agreed, let me go ahead and just try a deli cup next time ,rather than the keeper, the clear plastic may just be letting in too much light perhaps....

I will keep you posted...

Again, thank you all for your input, it is appreciated...!!!!

[logic]

ok ....
here is the update...

since my last post I have tried...

- dipping the f/t in chicken soup...
- dipping the f/t in tuna fish water...
- i again tried just the f/t in the viv over night...

still no luck...
I have moved her to a critter keeper for awhile... this way i will not have to remove her from her setting for my next attempt at feeding...

i think i might have to get someone with more experience to try and "force feed" the lil gal....

any other suggestions out there....!?
how many of you have force fed a snake in the past...
any suggestions... any techniques that work well...!?

thank you...

[MastersHaven]

there are two things that come to mind...

first of all, 80-90 degree temps seem to be a bit high... maybe try lowering it about 10 degrees'
ALSO.... if you are going to try force feeding it is easiest to try with rat tails first... I had a few stubburn eaters (at about 6 weeks) and rat tails are what I had to start them on... they are easier to get into the mouth and with them being long and slender they tend to induce a swallowing effect rather than the natural reaction of spitting it out.

hope this helps!
keep us updated!

[Tracee]

logic - I found a brilliant thread here:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13612
with a guide to force feeding, pictures and all.

It won't be a nice experience but this wee one really does need some food inside her and force-feeding seems the only way. Good luck.

[KRISSYK]

We had a couple this year that refused all attepts. braining, live, f/t, fresh killed, deli cup, paper bag, scenting, lizards etc. We were just about to force feed these 2 and my husband for the heck of it threw 2 small rat pinkies in with them both of the cornsnakes took them immediatley, we breed our own rodents so we always have fresh rat pinks. Still to this day they will not eat pinky mice, rat pinks are way to big of a meal for them. They are so full and stretched out they don't move for 2-3 days, and are certain they are going to regurge. But the alternative of not eating and dying is worse.
This method has also worked with some of out hatchling gopher, pine and kingsnakes.
We try not to force feed anything anymore IF we do we use rat tails. But generally the ones we force feed for a month or two generally never take off and thrive.
I would drop your temps as someone else suggested. We keep most all of our North American colubrids around 80.

[Jessicat]

If you're going to keep her in the kritter keeper make sure she's got a decent hide in there.. or at least some paper towel for her to "burrow" under. If she doesn't feel safe where she's living she'll be too scared to eat.

[MastersHaven]

WOW Tracee... that is a handy post...Thanks. I wish I had seen that before I started feeding my own... I was so scared of hurting them but that post makes it look so easy.

That is exactly what I do with the exception of using rat tails instead of mice tails... I find that rat-pup tails tend to be meatier and more easily swallowed...
BUT it is also depending on the size of the hatchlings being fed.

I start off with about an inch of tail for the smallest ones and for the larger ones I use a whole tail (about 1 1/2+ inches). I had tried force-feeding small pinkies but had a high percentage of regurges so I always start them off with the tails now.

I had purchased a little one not too long ago and she hadn't taken food sense I got her -- her siblings have tripled her size in just a the few weeks I've had them, so last week I began to force feed her the rat tails and she is picking up fast... she had completely forgotten how to eat, no swallow reflex or anything... she is still not eating on her own but she is beginning to take the tails with more ease.

now I just have to open her mouth and position it in the front of her throat and she begins to swallow. I am so pleased that she is at least taking it willingly and keeping it down!

Have you tried this method yet, logic? Any updates?

[TandJ]

Keep us posted.. I hope you did not think I was trying to be rude with my original post in this thread.. Hope it works out for you..

Regards..

[BabyBlueEyes]

Im sorry that your lil hatchlings not eating. I too have a hatchling that didnt eat for 2 months straight! I tried everything i could possibly think of! Lizard scenting, braining, f/t, everything and was left with no luck. Well at this time the hatchling was so weak i did not want to stress the little guy by "force feeding" and knew there had to be something i didnt try.. Ive seen a couple of threads here on this site where ppl have tried feeding their stubbern hatchlings day old chicken drumb sticks, well i dont have any soruce of day old chicken drumb sticks so i thought about trying chicken! I cut a thin/small slice of raw chicken breast about the same width and length of a pinkie. I put the chicken inside a deli and TADA he went for it!! i was so happy!! He actually ate his first meal! you should try this i dont know if it would work for you but might as well try! For the next feeding i would give him a pinkie scented with chicken. Good luck on the little guy! :)

[MastersHaven]

....Ive seen a couple of threads here on this site where ppl have tried feeding their stubbern hatchlings day old chicken drumb sticks, well i dont have any soruce of day old chicken drumb sticks so i thought about trying chicken! I cut a thin/small slice of raw chicken breast about the same width and length of a pinkie. I put the chicken inside a deli and TADA he went for it!! i was so happy!! He actually ate his first meal! you should try this i dont know if it would work for you but might as well try! For the next feeding i would give him a pinkie scented with chicken. Good luck on the little guy! :)

raw chicken? raw would make sense to me because they eat it raw in the wild but I think I read here on the forum that processed raw chicken wasn't good for them -- that it needed to be boiled a bit first?!?!

I still stand by the rat-tails -- I have had nothing but positive results with them so far!

at this point, anything is worth a try I guess...

[CornCrazy]

I have gotten some started on little slivers of chicken gizzard before. I have also gotten quite a few started by offering mouse and rat pink heads. If you choose to try the rat pink heads, try to get a very small frozen rat pinks, break the head off and thaw only the head (the body can be used later on). Good luck!

[logic]

Thank you all for your replies, I appreciate the assistance...

Ironically, yesterday I reduced the heat on the critter keeper...
I am using a UTH, but I have it set up on part of the keeper, so that I can use it for the Anery and my new Butter (in a 10 gal, set up next to it )...

(Off Topic - Sorry I didn't mention that earlier... I just added a new butter male hatch to my collection, I guess I needed a bit of color... lol. Don't worry, I have learned from this experience, I will be leaving him alone for a good 4-5 days and leave him alone with the f/t on his first feed all night if need be... he's a shy little fella, unlike my snow...)

Thank you Tracee, that will be very helpful...
and, rat tails sound like they may work well...

But perhaps, before I try that (especially since some of you mentioned, that once force fed, the snake may develop a dependency to force feeding...) I think I will try one last time with just a rat pinkie head... maybe the temp being slightly lower, and not being removed from her viv may be the missing variables (I know I mentioned that I tried to feed her in her viv, but at the time she was in a 10 gal tank, it may have been to big...)

TandJ - No worries, I took no offense, I know it can be a bit frustrating at times, when you constantly see similar posts...

Thanks again everyone, I will keep you posted...

[Tegucentric]

In the evening, take a frozen/thawed day old pinky mouse. Cut the head off (the smaller size will make the hatchling more secure in the fact that it can eat it. Then take a good size needle and make a hole in the top of the head into the brain and 'stir' it up a bit and pull out the needle, wipe the needle on the pink head. Put the hatchling in a deli dish (with holes to breath) but nothing inside. Let it sit, covered with a paper towel, washcloth, etc. Once the hatchling has been in the deli dish for 5 to 10 minutes (so it can settle down a bit) introduce the prepaired pink head and leave undisturbed overnight.

It works pretty good. It's my last ditch effort before resorting to force feeding formula through a hose.

Sincerely,

Rick

[MegF.]

Believe it or not, I've found that mine really liked the smell of the intestines. I had overheated a mouse and it's guts were out. My snake went for there first even when she wasn't interested in the rest of the mouse. Perhaps if you heat the head really well in a bag in hot water, then smeared some guts (I know it's yucky), it might want it. Good luck to you!

[Tracee]

I've not heard of that before Meg.. This thread should be a 'sticky' there is SO much valuable information that could help people with non-feeders.

(Still thanking my lucky stars I've never had to deal this problem yet..)

[MegF.]

Fortunately I haven't either. I've always gotten them to eat, unless they were in deep blue, or a male off food during breeding season. All the others have been good eaters. Knock on wood!