Good Match for 1.0 Charcoal

[Gregg]

Okay you "Top Breeders" and "Genetics Masters" (Rich, Serpwidgets, Elashe_Mo, Kevin_M, the rest of you, you know who you are.) I would like to get your advice, if I may.

I bought a 1.0 charcoal a while back from Rich, just because I wanted one for my collection. Now, I'm faced with it being a Fifth Wheel, sort a speak. That is to say, it has no mate within my collection. I would like to get all y'all's opinion as to the best possible choice for a mate to this little fellow.

Here is some background that might be helpful.

Both his parents were Normal corns, Het. for charcoal ghost.

According to "Mick's Cornsnake Progeny Predictor", this little charcoal has a statistical probability of 1/16 for being a simple charcoal, or a 2/16 chance of being a charcoal, het for hypomelanism.

So, without knowing exactly whether he is het. for anything, or not, it would be a gamble to pick a 0.1 hypomelanistic, Het for charcoal, although that might be my best choice, or would it?

Any comments folks?

(Serpwidgets: I lost my D & D dice to a Lady a long time ago, in a land far, far away, so I could really use your calculator talents.)

[jim]

hi. i also have a lone male charcoal, and am planning on breeding him to a blizzard female. at least this way the offspring are all going to be charcoal het. blizzard. (no guesswork, nice and simple) this also lets me check if he is het for amel. he was sold to me as a 66% possible het amel. you could also breed straight to an amel and get 100% het for blizzard, but this way all you get are normal corns. (i apologize to any normal corns whose feelings were hurt by that callous remark. you guys are beautiful too) or go with a hypo and get ghosts somewhere down the road. you've got lots of options. also, you could think of breeding himinto any of the pattern mutations. (motley, stripe, zigzag, aztec) oh well, im rambling now... just have fun... jim

[Kevin M]

Do you know if he is a straight up Charcoal? or for Hypo?

Either way I'm biased when it comes to Charcoals. When i have one available, I immediatly toss it into my Pewter projects. :)

-Kev

[Hurley]

Well, since you have a 67% chance that he is het for hypo, I think it's worth the risk of getting a hypo het charcoal (or a charcoal het hypo, or heck, why not a hypo charcoal). What's the worst thing that could happen...you get charcoals het for hypo. It only takes a year or two to grow a charcoal het hypo son up...

:D

[Serpwidgets]

My answer is that he's 66% poss het for Hypo, het X het = 25% mutants and the rest are 66% poss het. :)

So you should get something that's at least het for both hypo and charcoal, and preferably homozygous for hypo... because if he's not het, you will only end up with a bunch of 50% poss hets instead of known hets.

I'm partial to Charcoal Ghosts anyway, so I'd say get one of those. It's pretty now, and could make some pretty offspring if he's het hypo.

And Hurley makes a good point that even if he's not het hypo, an F1 male (which would be charcoal het hypo) could be bred back to the mother to create more Charcoal Ghosts. :)

[Gregg]

There are a lot of good choices out there.

I don't know if this guy's pure charcoal, or charcoal, het. hypo; that information wasn't given to me. All I know is that both his parents were Normals, het for charcoal ghost.

A 67% chance for a "het. for" might be enough to consider taking a gamble on a Hypo, het. for charcoal. Or, I could buy a 0.1 charcoal, het. for hypo and see if I can get a charcoal ghost in the hatch. But then, I have a 0.1 Silver Queen ghost. I could breed him to her and eventually get a hypo/het. charcoal and, therefore, a charcoal ghost.

I have a 0.1 snow, so getting a blizzard could likewise be done with what I have, eventually.

I have no way of telling what might come from a charcoal x blood red, since Mick's Progeny predictor doesn't have 'blood red' added to the mix.

So,

What would happen, if I crossed this 1.0 Charcoal (poss. het for hypo.) with: a hypo-Blood red? Or a blood red? Or either of the two, het. for charcoal?

Anyone want to tell me?

[Serpwidgets]

Charcoal + Bloodred is Pewter.

Charcoal X Hypo Blood -> triple hets

Charcoal het Hypo X Hypo Blood -> 50% hypos, het hypo pewter.

But then, I have a 0.1 Silver Queen ghost. I could breed him to her and eventually get a hypo/het. charcoal and, therefore, a charcoal ghost.

I have a 0.1 snow, so getting a blizzard could likewise be done with what I have, eventually.IMO, unless you really want to spend a lot of effort doing breeding trials, you're best off NOT creating hets for both Charcoal and Anery genes.

[Gregg]

If I understand you all correctly, I should buy either a 0.1 Hypomelanistic, Het. for Charcoal, a 0.1 Blood Red, or a 0.1 Charcoal Ghost, right?

Decisions, decisions.

Are there any other choices out there?:D

[Rich Z]

Well, since I have some Charcoal Ghost females available, obviously I should guide you in that direction.....;)

But how about taking the long road? What would a Charcoal Motley look like? Or a Charcoal Aztec? Would a Charcoal bred to a Candy Cane make something different than if it were bred to a Fluorescent Orange? Would you get a different looking Charcoal Ghost by breeding a Charcoal to a Crimson as opposed to a Hypo Okeetee? If you breed it to a type 'A' Anerythristic and you get double homozygous F2 animals, what will a double homozygous Charcoal and 'A' Anerythristic look like? What will an animal homozygous for Charcoal, 'A' Anerythrism AND Hypomelanism look like?

Man, you have a whole SLEW of options open to you with just that one animal!!

(See what goes through my mind EACH AND EVERY breeding season with EVERY cultivar I am working with?)

[Serpwidgets]

I'm surprised I haven't seen these around anywhere. :(

I was also wondering the same thing with Butter corns... if you start with a Flourescent X Caramel vs. CandyCane x Caramel, what kind of difference will you get in the F2 butter offspring? Will you get lot more yellow from the first combo?

what will a double homozygous Charcoal and 'A' Anerythristic look like?Since these genes are everywhere, it has to have happened at some point, yet nobody seems to have noticed one. Because of that, my money's on "it looks either exactly like a Charcoal or exactly like an Anery." :) (heh, as if any of them look "exactly" like anything...)


Would you get a different looking Charcoal Ghost by breeding a Charcoal to a Crimson as opposed to a Hypo Okeetee?I've wondered the same thing. Which did you use (if either) as a starter for your Charcoal Ghosts? It should also be interesting to see how HypoB works in combination with charcoal, and what influence the strong Okeetee background will have on them.

[Elaphe_Mo]

Well my bias would be toward the charcoal ghost, you are likely to have speedier results there, but you do have a lot of options open to you.

Rich I have a lot of respect for you...as much as I love corn snakes and genetics, if I had as many potential crossings in front of me as you do I think my head would explode. You do an excellent job.

[Gregg]

Dang! I'm so drunk now from my head spinning I think I'm gonna hurl! :D

So many choices!

I already have a 0.1 Anery A/Motley, so I could use her. The off-spring would be normal, but the off-spring's off-spring could be something.

However, for the other suggestions, I would have to buy a whole slew of females: charcoal ghost, aztec, candy cane, fluorescent orange, crimson, hypo-okeetee, as well as, the previously recommended blood red and hypomelanistic, het for charcoal. I guess I'd better start saving up.

[And I wanted to keep my life simple. What about me!] :rolleyes:

I guess it's time to play "Spin-the Bottle" :D

I want to thank you all for your suggestions.

[Rich Z]

Mo - My first head had much more hair on it and it wasn't all colored gray. The doctors did a hell of a job on this current one, but I'm hoping next time around they'll pick me out one with a better face on it as well.

:rolleyes:

[LizS]

Rich, my bald hubby says lack of hair is a sign of virility, as in hormones aren't wasted growing hair. He says proof of that is that he started losing his hair when he met me (I'll take that explanation, but I personally think the stress of living with me and my critters burned up his folicles).

[Rich Z]

When I was a kid, I remember asking my grandfather why he didn't have any hair on his chest. He told me it was because women had rubbed it all off. Of course, at the time I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. ;)

[Peter]

Rich, a buddy of mine always said, "Grass don't grow on a busy street!"

[Peter]

He blamed his receding hairline on either side to the act of his head rubbing back and forth on the pillow. haha

[Serpwidgets]

A guy I knew in basic training had a massive widow's peak. He called it "leg marks," hehe.