Poop Analysis (PICS)

[CJBianco]

I've kept a few colubrids before, but I've never seen poop this color before. The color is sorta "dead flesh gray". (Not the normal black.) Is this any cause for worry?

(This is from my smaller female. The second poop in a row of this color. The first was a bit more uniform gray. Maybe a bit paler too. I didn't take photos at the time. It was definitely weird and slightly alarming. And all this sudden talk everywhere about crypto makes me paranoid. Is crypto REALLY that common?)

Thanks for the wisdom.


Chris

[angle0343]

It looks like a regurge to me. I found a regured mouse in my tank today, wasn't very pretty.

[CJBianco]

I don't think it's a regurge. The smell isn't there, and it has urates mixed in. (This is based on the info I've read that regurges have a noxious stink. I've never seen one, so I wouldn't really know.)

Oh! And now that I look at it more, the last poop was definitely a paler uniform gray.


Chris

[KatieL]

Weel, that doesn't look much like a regurge to me...and I've seen my fair share - back when I started my job a few of the snakes there were regurging regularly (they didn't know the 10 day rule...).

Anyway, if you look at it closely you can see it has squiggly (for lack of a better word) segments in it as if it is...intestine shaped? Its defintely not mouse shaped at all, and even after a mouse has been down for 5 days you can still tell its a mouse when it comes back up. Anyway, all of my snakes' poop has the squiggly dark matter, and the urates. I say it looks like a normal-ish poop, just a slightly odd color. I have no idea on the color thing though. You'll have to wait for someone else to comment on that.:)

[CJBianco]

Yeah. I figured it was a stool too.

I've just always seen black colubrid stool. Never light gray. (Almost colorless like dead flesh.) I wish I had taken a photo of the last stool. Really light gray. Oh, well. Maybe it's the food items.

Come to think of it, the gray stools began with the batch of frozen hoppers I purchased at the last expo. Hmm...

Chris

[coyote]

It is true that intestinal parasites can change the appearance and texture of feces. Have you had a fecal done on this snake in recent time? It might be worth considering having one done just for peace of mind.

In mammals, much of the color of feces comes from bile salts. Liver disorders can have an effect on this.

[Khaman]

Was this the hypo? I get this all of the time when I get a dip in temps in my snake room as if they did not digest it completely.

[carol]

I agree it would be worth doing a fecal. However, I have seen this in the past after either a larger than normal meal, or if inadequate heat is available. It just isn't fully digested, but wasn't regurged. I have had success treating it much like a regurge, giving them a week off to build up some more juices and take a step back in meal size for about two feedings, then slowly working them back up. Also you may need to higher your temps, and make sure you are not handling her too much too soon. One other thing that can bring this on is if you change the feeding schedule to feeding more often. Try treating it the same as if it were a regurge and see if you get some improvement.
It really doesn't look too bad, at least it's solid enough to have some shape. I've had them poo grey "paste" before.

[CJBianco]

Was this the hypo? I get this all of the time when I get a dip in temps in my snake room as if they did not digest it completely.

Yeah. This is the little Hypo girl. She is a little piggy. =) And the temperatures are fairly steady with a 70ºF-75ºF cool side and a 84ºF-85ºF warm side. Maybe I should bump up the cooler side a little. Who knows?

I'm feeding her in a minute, so here goes another poop experiment.

Chris

[CJBianco]

I agree it would be worth doing a fecal. However, I have seen this in the past after either a larger than normal meal, or if inadequate heat is available. It just isn't fully digested, but wasn't regurged. I have had success treating it much like a regurge, giving them a week off to build up some more juices and take a step back in meal size for about two feedings, then slowly working them back up. Also you may need to higher your temps, and make sure you are not handling her too much too soon. One other thing that can bring this on is if you change the feeding schedule to feeding more often. Try treating it the same as if it were a regurge and see if you get some improvement.
It really doesn't look too bad, at least it's solid enough to have some shape. I've had them poo grey "paste" before.

The food items are fairly small. (A little less than the snake's diameter. Two per meal. Once per five days.) And I really don't handle them at all. I hold them for about five minutes as I clean the cages, but only three days after the last meal. (No immediate post-meal handling.) And I'll look into the temperatures more. Maybe something is off.

Chris

[Khaman]

Come to think of it, the gray stools began with the batch of frozen hoppers I purchased at the last expo. ChrisOld or frost bitten (Is that a word?) food items can have an affect too. I have noticed when I use a particular prey supplier that I get more abnormal stools in my colony as well as an even more unpleasant odor 3-4 days after feeding.

[CJBianco]

By the way...since the color has darkened a bit with the last stool, I'm thinking that it may be getting better. (Whatever it was.) I'm offering her a meal now and preparing her for another stool. (A test stool.)

I really don't think anything is wrong with her. I just get paranoid sometimes. (Especially after reading stories about the crypto thing. Scary stuff.)

She is feeding, shedding, and acting fine. (Not counting the strange stool.)

(Maybe she had some bad sushi.)


Chris

[CJBianco]

Old or frost bitten (Is that a word?) food items can have an affect too. I have noticed when I use a particular prey supplier that I get more abnormal stools in my colony as well as an even more unpleasant odor 3-4 days after feeding.

I was thinking that the frozen hoppers may have something to do with it. (Although it's still a post hoc ergo propter hoc situation.) I could always try the live hoppers again. That's an easy test.

Chris

[Taceas]

I've had that poop occasionally before, so I wouldn't be too overly concerned.

It doesn't look so un-normal to be in the realm of the unknown. But you may have a fecal done in case, just to see if anything abnormal is going on.

Although usually I've had that happen from adults that were fed more than they're used to per feeding. With my kingsnake MIA, someone has to eat the leftovers. I guess they can't digest it all in time and its starting to go bad, so they rush the process through to avoid getting sick.

So you may knock it back to on either length between feedings or one item per feeding. Two every 5 days just sounds like a lot to me.

How old is this snake exactly, and what size mice are you feeding it? Those look like pretty big doopers to me. Most of my good sized adult females don't do anything near that big on a normal basis.

And all of my snakes do the "squiggly" thing in their feces, I don't know what causes it, but my guess is the peristaltic motion of the intestines bunching it up into a corded shape.

[MegF.]

My big amels poops are much like that. He feeds on rats if that means anything.....

[CJBianco]

How old is this snake exactly, and what size mice are you feeding it?

The snake is a small 2003 animal. She is around 100g+ and 28" long. (Apparently she was a problem feeder the first year.) And I'm offering hopper mice.

Oh! And I just shut off the AC vent to my office/snake room. This should bump the cool side up to at least 75ºF again.

I think the problem sounds consistent with the suggestions of undigested prey items. I'll bump up the temps and feed fewer items for a while.

Thank you all! =)


Chris

[carol]

How long have you had this snake? After hearing more info I would suspect it is due to feeding every 5 days even if the meals are small. There is nothing wrong with feeding every 5 days but it has to be worked into slowly and there are some that just can't handle it no matter what you do. If it gets better with the next poo, great. If it stays the same or gets worse, I'd give her a little break and then go to every 6 or 7 days and see if that helps. Does she have hides on both sides of the tank?

[CJBianco]

I've only had her for a few weeks. Not long at all. And she likes to play beneath/inside the newspaper substrate. On either side. (She also has a newspaper tube hide thingy.)

I don't think it's stress caused by too few hides. And the warm side temperatures are good. Although the cool side temperatures could be raised a little. And maybe a single food item per feeding is best for the moment.

I'll give it a shot.


Chris

[Gintha]

I've noticed the same thing with Treasure... but his was always after having eaten a large meal. I was wondering if the fur colour of the mouse would change the poo colour? I noticed Treasures is very light like that after white mice.