any idea's

[pipatic]

1) A friend of mine has bred his pewter male to a ghost female
the hatchlings out of this breeding came out anery,
.
2) so if i buy these two anery's,then in a few year's ,breed them together ,
.
3) what would the out come be,??

4) are these douable hets


:D :D :D

[Jr Nimeskern]

Sorry Pip I dont understand your question again lol... :D could you reword it again??? thanks Ill help you out if I can...

[pipatic]

Jr Nimeskern
i hope that better ,? i know what i was trying to say:D

[Jr Nimeskern]

LOL... yes much better but Im still a little confused about the Pewter X Ghost pairing... correct me if Im wrong anyone... but if you bred those two together then you should get all Normals het for Bloodred, Charcoal, Anery A, and Hypo...
1)Did your friend got all Anery A's, Charcoals ???
2)Or is the Ghost a Charcoal Ghost?
3)Or is the Pewter a Anery A Bloodred?
4)Or maybe your Ghost is het Charcoal?
5)Or your Pewter is het Anery A?

None the less some of these questions have got to be awnsered inorder for me to give correct advice...

some People can confuse the Charcoal Ghost because they look so much like the Ghosts. And the same goes with the Pewters... Ill just say that the Ghost is a Charcoal Ghost just to give you a Idea...

If your Friend got all Anerys (A or B dont matter) then we can say that the babies are Anery's het Blood and Hypo... They are 100% het for Blood and Hypo... so If you had the siblings and bred them together you would get...

1/16 Bloodred Ghost
3/16 Ghosts Possible het 66% Bloodred
3/16 Anery Bloodreds (If we come to the conclusion that the corns are Charcoal then you can change the Anery Bloodred name to Pewter) Possible het 66% Hypo
9/16 Anery's Possible het 66% Bloodred, 66% Hypo...

there is your Ratio's get back with me on those questions that I asked and I can give you a exact awnser for your question...

Good luck also on this breeding project if you wish to partake in it
:D

[pipatic]

hi jr nimekern
for now untill i can speak to my friend again,this is wht he said

1) his mates thought the babies would be ghost babies,but he wasnt' sure on that,and said anery's.

2)they came out as anery's but abit lighter,??

3) he said there double het for pewter and ghost.

4) (a) 1 in 4 for pewter.
(b) 1 in 4 for ghost,
(c) might even get bloodreds,


:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Jr Nimeskern]

Ive seen some very light Anery A's that looked like ghost's but werent. So Im not sure... but his corns have to be something other then just Ghost and Pewter... its not likely that he would have some "light color Anery's" if he was breeding a true Ghost to a true Pewter... Theres something that isnt adding up... none the less they would be double het for Pewter and Ghost... have you seen the babies? I would just stick with my calculations... I think that they are pretty much right.

[Serpwidgets]

"Double" het?

Anyway, I think it's necessary to know what ALL of the hatchlings were, and how many of them there were. If I understood you correctly, there were only two hatchlings from the whole clutch, and both of them are anerythristic?

There are a lot of possibilities, and it's impossible to determine what happened without knowing any of it.

The "pewter" could be an Anery Bloodred instead of a pewter, and they are anerys.

The "ghost" could be a charcoal ghost, and they are charcoals.

If not all of the hatchlings were Anerythristic, or if there were only a few hatchlings, then it's probably just that one parent was het for the other type of Anerythrism.

[Bippy]

I thought pewter was charcoal + bloodred and ghost was anery + hypo? Wouldn't that make the babies triplehets?

Or is the ghost really a phantom?

[pipatic]

well i got abit more info not much but here goes,
1) had nine eggs all hatched anery's
.
2) the pewter male produces pewter, + charcoal,
.
3) ghost female produces ghosts.

then he said
"if you breed these babies together in 2- 3 years you will get 1 in 4 pewter, and 1 in 4 ghost,
and who know,s
as its all poss but nothing granteed,"

[Kat]

Ok, first off, they're triplehets, not doublehets... second, the odds of getting a double-homozygous animal from doublehets is not 1/4, but 1/16. So, if you want pewters, you're talking -closer- to 1/16 odds. That's not exact, because the hypo gene is also thrown in there, and will affect the outcome slightly. If you want ghosts, your odds are -close- to 1/4 because you're trying only for a single gene (as all of them are Anery to start with). Again, the charcoal and bloodred genetics are going to lower those odds, so you won't -quite- have a 1/4 chance.

His odds are off, but that doesn't mean it's a bad deal. For example, you could wind up with ghost bloodreds if you get somewhat lucky (slightly less than 1/16 odds), or hypo pewters if you're REALLY lucky (1/64 odds IIRC...).

Just don't expect 1/4 pewters. You'll be lucky to get one pewter in the clutch (as the odds are slightly less than 1/16). The ghost ratio is closer to the truth. You've got a chance to get some bloodreds and some charcoals as well, in similar odds as the ghosts.

Confusing? Probably. A bad deal? Not necessarily. Genetics just isn't your friend's forte.

[Kat]

Sat down with pencil and paper and figured it out... your odds for the outcomes of breeding a pair of Anerys triple het for bloodred, hypo, and charcoal are as follows:

27/64 Anery
9/64 Anery Bloodred (I forgot about the anery trait in the post above, so no straight bloodreds. :))
9/64 Charcoal (as charcoal seems to hide anery A)
9/64 Ghost
3/64 Pewter (homozygous for Anery A as well, dunno if it's hidden)
3/64 Phantom (same comment as for Pewter)
3/64 Ghost Bloodred
1/64 Hypo Pewter (same comment as for Pewter)

A pretty good mix for a triple heterozygous pairing. :)

[Jr Nimeskern]

Kat Im still thinking that something is def. not right about this clutch... Ok so are we saying that the whole clutch is Anery A or Anery B? this is the question Im trying to figure out... if we are saying that the Father is a True Pewter then we have to say that the mother is a Charcoal Ghost... the odds of all the babies coming out Anery should not happen... if they where truely what we think they are...
if the pairing of the parents is true that the Father is a True Pewter (Charcoal + Bloodred) and the mother a True Ghost (Anery A + Hypo) then the babies should of came out ALL normals unless the father was het for Anery A or the mother was het for Anery B (Charcoal)... if this was the case the babies ratio would be 1/2 Anery (whatever type A or B) and 1/2 normal the chances that all 9 babies coming out Anery is a very slim chance... but not impossible...
What Im actually saying is that Pip should first find out if the Mother or the Father of the babie anerys is Truely what they are... Im thinking that the Father could be a Anery A Bloodred or the Mother a Charcoal Ghost (Charcoal+Hypo)...
Whatever happens I would still try to get the babies if they are affordable... and breed them just to see what happens... Im just thinking that someone is mistaking the parents as something they are not! IMHO
No offese to anyone Im just trying to figure this weird case of genetics out! Just keep on finding out more info on them PIP...

[Kat]

I'm going based on the assumption that the father was a pewter and the mother was indeed your standard everyday ghost.

It's quite possible, mostly due to the tendancy for the charcoal gene to mask the presence of the Anery A gene... which suggests that the pewter is really a triple homozygous critter.

I'd have a harder time believing that the hatchlings were all Charcoals, because that would mean that the ghost (which he did not say was a phantom and it's hard to mistake a ghost for a phantom) was homozygous for Anery B (Charcoal), and given Anery B's tendancy to mask Anery A, odds are it wouldn't look like a ghost then.


So, assuming the hatchlings are indeed Anery A's (an assumption which seems pretty valid to me), then the outcomes I listed are correct. Now, if he means that the babies are charcoals, then obviously this doesn't work out... but usually when people call a critter an Anery, they mean Anery A, and usually when people call a critter a ghost, they mean ghost and not phantom. :)


AneryA bloods are pretty hard to mistake for pewters, too, for that matter...

[Jr Nimeskern]

Yes Kat I must say that many experienced cornsnake breeders can tell the diffrence between Anery A bloods and Pewters, Charcoals and Anery A, Ghosts and Phanotoms... but even the experienced breeder must admit that Charcoals and Anerys are hard to distinguish as babies...
I have a feeling that you are right about the Pewter having the Anery A trait but it being masked... Im just sceptical to give out "this will happen" if Im not sure that what Im being told is absolutly correct...
I do believe though that sometimes even the best of breeders has to see that Anerys and Charcoals are very closely related traits... it can be very hard to tell the diffrences of young and old specimens...
None the less I love hearing other peoples theorys on what is what... It only makes me love genetics that much MORE!!!

[Serpwidgets]

I agree 100% with Kat's assessment and logic behind it. I was thinking about this one, and had come to the same exact conclusions.

BTW my calculations say getting 9 anerys out of 9 (from parents that are anery X het anery) is 1 in 512. :)

[Jr Nimeskern]

LOL thanks Serp for the details on the 1/512... LOL I knew that it was highly unlikely but I didnt do that math to figure it out... LOL you make my job easy!!!:D

[Serpwidgets]

One of my "fun" projects last year was determining how to even figure that stuff out, and writing a program to do it. :)

[pipatic]

They arrived in the post this afternoon,there black/brown with a
dull silver to grey in beteen the saddles

[pipatic]

pic are not great

[pipatic]

and

[pipatic]

last one

[pipatic]

abig thank you to all that replied in this post,
and now the growing ,i put some more better pic on when there a bit bigger,or when i get this pic taking sorted lol
they have a black/brown to them,say from two foot away you say anery ,then 2 in ablck with brown tinge , hopefully worth keeping
what do you guy's think

[pipatic]

pic a bit better i hope

[pipatic]

male anery

[Iris]

hey pipatic, lovely snakes.
I assume you're using a digicam? One suggestion for having clearer pics: I've found that moving back a foot or zooming out helps the picture be clearer. Then crop out the background using a photo program or even Paint (which is what I use for all my cropping and shrinking of pictures).

[pipatic]

new good quailty batteries help to lol as you can see just shed

[pipatic]

so from this pic of the male ,what would he be class as Anery a/b ghost ?????:confused:




i could try to get better pic's of him and her , or are we getting bored of this post ???

[Kat]

I would say that he is not an anery B (charcoal) ghost. Anery A vs regular ghost is a bit harder to determine, but he does look like a regular ghost from the pics. Most Anery A hatchlings I've seen are much much darker.

[pipatic]

hope these are better pic of the male kat

[pipatic]

and

[pipatic]

last one

[Kat]

Ok, I give up. :) I have no idea which morph he is. I'm better at distinguishing the adult versions from eachother than the hatchlings anyway...