Sad Accident. Advice?

[Roy Munson]

I don't usually post question threads, but I'm shaken up over an accident that occurred last night. I've been sick to my stomach since, and I was up every half hour last night with a flashlight, peeking into a tub.

I've posted on the subject of the dangers of multi-tasking and snake care, but mostly in terms of enclosure security. I had family over last night, and they wanted to handle the snakes. I also had feeding duties to perform, so I was juggling a bunch of things at once. When I went to put my puny '05 male blizzard in the rack after feeding, I didn't notice that he had slithered up between the tub and the lid. Usually I visually verify the position of the snake before I snap the lid. This time I didn't. This wasn't much of a problem until I went to rack the tub. The security benefit of using lids with the tubs in the rack is that the pressure exerted between the shelves onto the tub is considerable. As soon as I shoved the tub in about halfway, the snake started thrashing around violently, so I knew something was wrong. I pulled the tub out, and flipped off the lid, and he dropped to the bottom of the tub, squirming wildly. His head went into the waterbowl, and he was still for a few moments. I grabbed him from the waterbowl and placed him on the aspen. It looked as if one side of his neck was compressed/pinched for an inch or two behind his head. He was still breathing, heavily in fact, and then after another 30 seconds he went into his hide, holding his head at an angle.

He came out of his hide several times last night, then he ended up settling on top of it for a number of hours. I could see that he was still breathing the whole time. About half an hour ago I noticed him crawling around, seemingly normally, with no visible injury except that his head is still tilted. Suprisingly, he still hasn't regurged. If he hadn't just eaten, I think I would have done what I could to find an available herp vet to look at him last night. But I'm afraid that if he has damage to his neck/head, that adding more stress could invite a regurge that could finish him off. On the other hand, if he's suffering, I would feel terrible sitting around waiting to see what happens. He doesn't appear to be suffering, but I can't pretend that I would know exactly what that looks like. The head tilt thing is extremely troubling.

Sorry for the novel, I just wanted to get all details in. I feel terrible. Any advice?

[Bobo's Mama]

Oh poor Bill, I feel terrible for you Dean. I don't know what to tell you though. I hope he's not suffering. I know that someone else had a similar experience not too long ago with a corn being squished in the tracks of drawer and that corn turned out to be okay. I hope he is okay. Good luck with him. I know I'll be waiting to hear the outcome of this tragedy.

[Lennycorn]

I'm sorry to hear that Dean. Sometimes things happen. Everyone knows your good to your snakes. Sorry no advice . Hope the snake is ok soon.

[debcash]

Dean -
I too had a horrible accident a few days ago and am waiting to see how my little opal is. She's one of the one's my cat let out. Well - I had been looking for her and moved a very heavy antique trunk to look under it. I didn't see anything, so tipped the trunk back upright. My husband went down to look after he got home from work and found her squished under the trunk. I felt horrible - I have never hurt an animal. Parts of her lower body were completely flat. It was awful, I was sick about it and I honestly didn't think there was any way she could live. I set her outside in a bag to cool down before euthanizing her. When I check on her the next morning - she looked completely normal. Tongue flicking, moving etc...I couldn't believe it. The flat parts were rounded and looked fine. She's been back in her tub now for 3 days and looks pretty good. I am not going to feed her for at least 10 days to give any internal damage more time to heal. The only noticable damage is a bit of swelling and a small bruise(?) about 2-3 inches up from the tail. I won't know anything for sure until I see if she can pass food.
But I write all this to say I'm so sorry - I know how you feel. They are hardy little creatures - I hope they both pull through. Please let us know how he does.

[Roy Munson]

Thanks Bobo's Mama, and Lennycorn. Your kind words help. I don't want to play this up as a world crisis, but it's upsetting to me. :(

Dean -
I too had a horrible accident a few days ago and am waiting to see how my little opal is. She's one of the one's my cat let out. Well - I had been looking for her and moved a very heavy antique trunk to look under it. I didn't see anything, so tipped the trunk back upright. My husband went down to look after he got home from work and found her squished under the trunk. I felt horrible - I have never hurt an animal. Parts of her lower body were completely flat. It was awful, I was sick about it and I honestly didn't think there was any way she could live. I set her outside in a bag to cool down before euthanizing her. When I check on her the next morning - she looked completely normal. Tongue flicking, moving etc...I couldn't believe it. The flat parts were rounded and looked fine. She's been back in her tub now for 3 days and looks pretty good. I am not going to feed her for at least 10 days to give any internal damage more time to heal. The only noticable damage is a bit of swelling and a small bruise(?) about 2-3 inches up from the tail. I won't know anything for sure until I see if she can pass food.
But I write all this to say I'm so sorry - I know how you feel. They are hardy little creatures - I hope they both pull through. Please let us know how he does.

Thanks Deb. I'm so happy that your opal seems to have recovered. Keep us posted. I really appreciate you telling your story. I often underestimate their hardiness, so I really needed a good reminder. I had the ziplock bag out too, last night. I just couldn't do it though, without giving him a little more time. He really seems fine in all respects except for the head tilt. If he remains healthy looking, digests his meal, and the head tilt persists, I'll consult a vet. I'll be watching him closely, but I won't attempt to feed him for 10-14 days no matter how he looks. Thanks again. -Dean

[chisoxfan0971]

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

[mbdorfer]

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes
I seriously doubt that Dean would let anyone handle a just fed snake :rolleyes:
Dean, this is a rather unfortunate accident and I hope all goes well. Keep a good thought, maybe he'll shake it off in a few days. They are pretty hardy after all :cheers:

[Wilder]

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

I have to wonder how that's a problem. I handle my snakes before putting them into their feeding containers on feeding day. Then they go right back to their vivs, and I don't doubt that's what Dean was doing, too. I hardly see him as feeding his snakes, then tossing them around to random people to hold.


So sorry to hear about this, Dean, I hope he'll be okay. I would think if it were something really bad he wouldn't be acting more or less normal, but I guess we'll all have to wait and see.

[Roy Munson]

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

I wasn't looking for that kind of advice. Sorry to give you an old man response, but this statement is 100% true:

I've handled, fed, and owned corn snakes since you were in the womb. I've probably kept snakes since your Mom was in Junior High. I'm pretty good at risk assessment, (hey, I've worked for an insurance company since you entered first grade), so don't worry about my mellow snakes' stress levels. Thanks. :)

[Lennycorn]

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

I agree with Wilder, Dean did nothing wrong here. I would think you misunderstood his thread. Chill.

[Roy Munson]

I seriously doubt that Dean would let anyone handle a just fed snake :rolleyes:
Dean, this is a rather unfortunate accident and I hope all goes well. Keep a good thought, maybe he'll shake it off in a few days. They are pretty hardy after all :cheers:

I have to wonder how that's a problem. I handle my snakes before putting them into their feeding containers on feeding day. Then they go right back to their vivs, and I don't doubt that's what Dean was doing, too. I hardly see him as feeding his snakes, then tossing them around to random people to hold.


So sorry to hear about this, Dean, I hope he'll be okay. I would think if it were something really bad he wouldn't be acting more or less normal, but I guess we'll all have to wait and see.

Thanks for the nice words, guys, and for the clarification. I really didn't realize that chisoxfan was implying that I was allowing handling after feeding. Of course I wasn't; the concept is so alien I didn't even consider that that was what chisoxfan meant. Heck, anything on fuzzies and up doesn't get handled by me before the fourth day after feeding.

[Hurley]

Head tilt is generally a sign of vestibular problems (balance center). If the inner ear on one side was traumatized or that area of the brain, you'll get a snake that tilts it's head to the side of the lesion (problem). Is the snake moving normally, otherwise?

There isn't much that can be done for the little one except waiting it out and seeing if it recovers. If the head tilt persists, but the snake moves and eats just fine, it's not really much more than a cosmetic defect. They can live just fine with a head tilt (assuming it's vestibular and not spinal injury...but I wouldn't expect the little one to move normally or at all if that's the case.)

About the only medication that could be beneficial in that instance (and only if it's a brain injury) would have been an ultra-short acting steroid, but honestly that needs to happen pretty much right away to have any effect and I don't know I would have jumped for that anyway without other signs of brain injury such as fully dilated pupils or uneven pupils, etc. etc.

What I would personally do is give the little one 7 to 10 days of rest and relaxation before even attempting to feed again (assuming it doesn't regurge). Feed something tiny the first time so you can assess how much trouble (if any) the snake will have in getting its meal down. The head tilt may or may not go away, but usually won't affect the snake if it's purely a vestibular problem. They adjust.

[Taceas]

I'm so sorry to hear about your ordeal Dean. Thankfully I've never "accidently squished" any of my snakes, but I can attest to their hardiness and resiliency in these circumstances.

Give him some time to recover, after having my neck pinched, I'd have it at an angle too. Don't be too broken up about it, accidents happen. At least we know you're a good guy at the end of the day.

And as for you...
yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

When you can give worthwhile advice without being condescending maybe people will actually give a hoot about what you say. At least he doesn't consider the risk of cannibalization a "rare artform". You sure are well on your way to making LOTS of friends around here, I'll give you that. :rolleyes:

Sometimes the tripe needs to stay inside the cow...

[Roy Munson]

Head tilt is generally a sign of vestibular problems (balance center). If the inner ear on one side was traumatized or that area of the brain, you'll get a snake that tilts it's head to the side of the lesion (problem). Is the snake moving normally, otherwise?

Thanks for responding, Connie. I'm not sure if the tilt is related to strain/injury at the base of the skull, or in the neck region immediately before it. All other movement is normal, except for the head tilt, and what I'm thinking is a bit of a neck crane in the region I described. So if his spine is injured, his spinal cord appears unsevered. I'm at his mercy for observation; I really don't want to take him out.

...I don't know I would have jumped for that anyway without other signs of brain injury such as fully dilated pupils or uneven pupils, etc. etc.

The pupils seemed to be dilating and contracting normally in response to light. I tested this a number of times throughout the night when he was facing the front of the tub, outside of his hide.

What I would personally do is give the little one 7 to 10 days of rest and relaxation before even attempting to feed again (assuming it doesn't regurge). Feed something tiny the first time so you can assess how much trouble (if any) the snake will have in getting its meal down. The head tilt may or may not go away, but usually won't affect the snake if it's purely a vestibular problem. They adjust.

I will follow this advice to the letter. Thanks again Connie.

I'm so sorry to hear about your ordeal Dean. Thankfully I've never "accidently squished" any of my snakes, but I can attest to their hardiness and resiliency in these circumstances.

Give him some time to recover, after having my neck pinched, I'd have it at an angle too. Don't be too broken up about it, accidents happen. At least we know you're a good guy at the end of the day.

Thanks Misty. I appreciate it. I guess we learn from our mistakes. You can bet your butt that nothing like this will ever happen to me again.

[Roy Munson]

Sometimes the tripe needs to stay inside the cow...

Yeah, but his user title is fitting. I've worked with a number of Jamaican people in the past, so I know what it means. An online slang dictionary could probably tell you. I don't think Rich Z. would allow it if he knew what it meant. :nope:

[BeckyG]

Dean, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I hope the baby is ok.

And I'm sorry you have to come here and deal with smart aleck know-it-alls who don't really know what they're talking about. Anyone who knows you will know that the last thing you would ever be is careless with your snakes.

[ultimuttone]

Oh my, I am so sorry for both you and Bill. Of course we will all be thinking of you and waiting to hear how things go.
That is always one of my worries, especially with the little buggers who think they are not ready to go back to their tubs yet. As careful as we try to be they don't always cooperate. A few weeks ago I caught the end of Axle's tail in the edge of his Critter Keeper when I was putting him away. I felt so bad and his tail had a visible bent spot. I realize that is not the same as the neck, but the Critter Keepers shut so much tighter than the Sterilite or Rubbermaid tubs, I was sure I had broken it. But after a few days it was back to normal. I hope this is how it goes for Bill.

[cornsnakekid92]

I am so sorry for you Dean and i hope our little guy pulls through.even though i don't know too much about snakes i know you would never hurt your on perpose and yours should be fine!

[Roy Munson]

Thanks Becky, Traci, and Chris. You guys are great. I'll keep you posted.

[princess]

I've been away for a little while so I've not been on the site and missed this all. I'm so sorry to hear about the little guy and hope he has a full recovery. We all know that your snakes get top notch care and that accidents will sometimes happen all the same. One of my snakes got dropped by a friend from about 4' as a hatchling and slithered spasmodically for a few minutes afterwards...2½ years on, she's grown up to be a beautiful big fattie who performs at 100%...even though at the time I was sure she was a goner.

[Roy Munson]

I've been away for a little while so I've not been on the site and missed this all. I'm so sorry to hear about the little guy and hope he has a full recovery. We all know that your snakes get top notch care and that accidents will sometimes happen all the same. One of my snakes got dropped by a friend from about 4' as a hatchling and slithered spasmodically for a few minutes afterwards...2½ years on, she's grown up to be a beautiful big fattie who performs at 100%...even though at the time I was sure she was a goner.

Thanks Adèle. Glad yours survived its ordeal unscathed. I'm just very pissed at myself. I know it was an innocent mistake, but making a mistake that harms one of my pets, possibly permanently, is really disappointing. Heck, I get depressed for hours and hours over regurges and refusals! If he dies, or is permanently disfigured, I'm not sure if I'll ever stop kicking myself. Well, it's a waiting game now; what's done is done. :(

[bribrian]

Oh no, sorry to hear that, hope the little mite recovers & leads a healthy life. I'm sure you're gutted that you caused it but remember accidents do happen & we're all human. Hopefully it'll come out in the next couple of days ok & hissing & snarling & bite your hand, just for revenge purposes..... Fingers crossed...............

[psyhodad]

Ah Dean, don't beat yourself up over this. It's an unfortunate accident that wasn't done intentionally. It can happen to the best of us, no matter how diligent we are. I hope everything works out for the little guy, and you as well. I'm sure you'll keep us posted on his recuperation.

[Susan]

I'm so sorry Dean to hear about the accident. But as it has already been mentioned, these little critters have some amazing recuperative powers. Give the little one some time and lots of TLC. I'm praying for you both.

[zwyatt]

Sorry to hear this, Dean.

Thought I'd share a story:
Back in September (?) I had a hatchling that got stuck to some tape that was stupidly (and unknowingly) above his tub in my rack. The tape had come unstuck and he had climbed up and gotten stuck. It happened a day or two days after he arrived and I gave him 5 days to settle in. So he was probably stuck for 2-3 full days. When I took him out on the 5th day the situation was pretty ugly, at least 80% of his body was fastened to the tape including the top of his head. I was scared to death when I peeked in and saw him, but thankfully when I touched him he moved. I felt like the most irresponsible person alive. Today all you can see is small patch behind his head that looks like retained shed, but it never comes off or changes. Other than that he's 100% healthy.

Though, we never have made up completely. He still enjoys a good tail rattle most times when I open up is tub. :)

Best wishes that everything turns out for the best.

[SnakeAround]

Wish you strength coming days! I can feel the stomach ach you described!

[CornCrazy]

It's an unfortunate accident that wasn't done intentionally. It can happen to the best of us, no matter how diligent we are.Lee is 100% correct on this statement. I'd be willing to bet that most of us have had some sort of "accident." I know I have. I had a beautiful white-sided rat snake that attempted to dart out of his tub right as I pushed it into place in the rack. His head got squished (hard enough that I heard a cracking noise). I saw it before I pushed the tub all the way in or I would have killed him outright. Anyway, he started to have trouble digesting his food after that. He had never had any problems before, so I think I damaged the "digesting" part of his brain. I eventually euthanized him. I am still disgusted with myself, although I know it was an accident.

I have seen similar accidents with a few snakes at work. Some of them had permanent kinks due to the trauma and others got better. If yours has a permanent kink, it is possible for him to have an otherwise normal life. Good luck with him!

[Mary-Beth]

I'm so sorry Dean.
Praying everything turns out OK.

[Roy Munson]

Thanks for the support, and the stories, guys. I really appreciate it. If the "actual" communities we belong to could be as supportive, and helpful as this virtual community, the world would be a much better place. You guys are awesome. I'll keep you posted on poor Bill. -Dean

[Lavagirl]

Hi there. So sorry to hear about your accident. I can tell you really care about your guys and of course that's why you feel so bad. I would too. But hey, even the most careful and kind people make mistakes. I remember my mom accidentally shutting the car door on my leg as a child thinking both legs were in the vehicle. And back in the day, car doors were super heavy. Nothing was broken and I lived. :sobstory: I hope the snake will be just fine. :)

I have to ask, though....when you wrote that you got out the bag, what does that mean? I'm new to snakes so....sorry for the dumb question.

[Joni Garcia]

Dean... I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It was an honest mistake, but I know it's hard when those type of things happen. I love seeing all your beautiful snakes and know you take excellent care of them.

It's a good thing my snakes can't read and see all your photos on this forum!... or they'd be compaining (in a whiney voice) "it isn't fair, how come Dean's get nice photos taken of them all the time?" You do a great job. Try not to beat yourself up and keep us posted. Best wishes for you and Bill.

[Roy Munson]

I have to ask, though....when you wrote that you got out the bag, what does that mean? I'm new to snakes so....sorry for the dumb question.

Thank you, Lavagirl. That's not a dumb question. I brought out the ziplock because if I had determined that the snake was definitely suffering, I would have put him in the ziplock, and put him outside (in the New England winter) to slow him down to a coma state before finishing him off in the freezer. I'm hoping that this will not have to be done...


Best wishes for you and Bill.

Thanks Joni. I appreciate it.

[Lavagirl]

Here's hoping that he will be 100% soon. Keep us posted.

[Preita]

Ah Dean, I'm sorry to hear this. I wish you & Bill nothing but the best. Don't beat yourself up to much. Accidents happen even to the best of us. My prayers are with you.

[carol]

It happens to the best of us Dean. I hope he recovers, either way, don't beat yourself up over it. We all make mistakes, heck I once put half a clutch into a container that somehow ended up in my snake room with out any air holes in it. I lost them all. To this day I still don't know how that tub got past me. :shrugs:

[amelanistic frank]

yourletting people handle your snakes, and feeding them at the same time....you need to chill out with the stress your putting on these snakes...i hope your snakes survives and is healthy enough to survive

Chisox- do you even know what batty bwoy means? If you are homosexual and proud of it, that is fine and respected, but ditch the trenchtown lingo...its really lame.

Dean- hang in there. I know I flamed you recently, but I hate to hear about things like this. $#it happens, dont beat yourself up too much. Keep us posted.

[jzal8]

wow dean just saw this thread. I hope the little guy is doin ok.

[Roy Munson]

Thanks guys. You're a great bunch.

And no worries amelanistic frank. To me, bygones are truly bygones. :) I appreciate your kind words.

[vanderkm]

So sorry to hear of this accident. Connie really has all the bases covered in her response - with any luck the damage is just a result of swelling that can resolve given time, and not anything more permanent.

As others have said - accidents happen - anyone keeping animals for any length of time has had similar experiences - so don't be too hard on yourself. It is generous of you to share the experience with the group here - sure hope the little guy comes around - have a soft spot for blizzards!

mary v.

[Tracee]

:( Your post made me so sad. I would be feeling exactly the same way, but at least you can be comforted in the knowledge Bill's in the best possible hands. How's he looking at the moment, if you can see him?

[Roy Munson]

Thanks Mary (vanderkm). I hope you are right, and it's just swelling, or some other temporary condition.

:( Your post made me so sad. I would be feeling exactly the same way, but at least you can be comforted in the knowledge Bill's in the best possible hands. How's he looking at the moment, if you can see him?

I'm at work, so I can't see him. I'll be going home soon. It's been almost 48 hours since his feeding and accident, so I may be able to give him a more intensive examination tonight. I'm kind of apprehensive though. Thanks for your concern.

[Roy Munson]

I started this thread because I was freaking out, and I needed to tell someone who might care about the problem, and I really needed advice. I didn't expect all of these responses. You guys came through in a big way, and I really appreciate it. I do have this in proper perspective-- it's a small snake, not a sick child, or a looming lay-off, or a flooded home. It's a minor thing-- so minor, in fact, that if I lose him it won't even affect my corn breeding plans. But I like Bill, and he's important to me, and you guys understood that, and you honestly made me feel a lot better. Thanks again.

Update:
I took his tub out when I got home tonight. His condition doesn't appear to have changed, except that the lump from his last meal is hardly apparent, so he seems to be digesting. I jiggled the hide he was resting on, to get him to move, and he started crawling around. His eyes are clear, and his pupils contracted when I pointed a flashlight at him, and dilated when I turned it away. There is no bruising, shape deformation of the skull, or sign of spinal kinking. But he's still carrying his head and immediate neck at an angle. It looked to me as if he couldn't move his head to the right, or level it.

I'm still hoping it's some kind of muscle strain, and not vertebral or neurological damage, but it very well could be. Since he seems to be digesting, I'll stick with my original plan, and monitor him until I attempt to feed him in a couple of weeks. I honestly don't expect his condition to deteriorate by then, but the feeding will be the real test of his viability. I doubt I'll know much until then, unless he recovers full movement prior. I'm hoping this is the case...

[SnakeAround]

If only these guys could talk.... at least you would have known for sure about any pain felt. But, I suppose him moving around and being alert is a very good indicator too! I'll keep my fingers crossed for Bill!

[peep_827]

I just read this, I'm so sorry to hear of yours and Bill's ordeal . . . And yes, we do understand that while an injured snake isn't the end of the world, it is a big deal in a snake owner's life. But do not beat yourself up over it, it was an accident. These things do happen, and you are doing everything you can for him, that's what is important now.

I have a little story to share too . . . one night I was watching TV and holding Rhiannon, (a decent sized 04 - not a tiny hatchling), and she was in the sleeve of my sweatshirt as far as I knew, but I looked down just in time to see her tail disappear into the corner of my couch. Now, that would be scary enough, but my couch has recliners, and all sorts of metal stuff inside. After the kids and I determined that she could not be found without opening up the couch, we eased open the recliner - only to find she was all twisted around the metal mechanism inside, and if we opened it further she would be pinched in it! OMG!!! :eek1: I somehow managed to stick my hand in without opening it further and I swear it took me a good 20 minutes to ease her out of there, while holding the footrest as still as possible. That was almost a disaster . . . And to this day my kids tease me about not watching TV and holding a snake! But really, I was totally freaked about it, so I can really understand how you feel.

I'm glad to hear that Bill seems to be doing okay, hopefully with a little TLC he will fully recover. Keep us updated on the lil guy, we're all pulling for him!

[ultimuttone]

OK, we know you are home now, what's the update?

[Roy Munson]

OK, we know you are home now, what's the update?

Scroll up. ;)

[ultimuttone]

Thanks, I usually click the unread thread box, and it apparently skipped right over the update.:shrugs:
I am glad he seems to be okay for now. Pretty soon his dilema will be bigger than the Biggest Thread Ever, lol. With all the positive thoughts going his direction, he has to do alright ;).

[CornCrazy]

Dean...I was wondering if it might be possible that he has some "dislocated" vertebrae. It may be worth a trip to the vet to get his opinion. Or maybe you could post some pictures here. Some of us may be able to give you a bit more info by looking at some pics.

[Roy Munson]

Dean...I was wondering if it might be possible that he has some "dislocated" vertebrae. It may be worth a trip to the vet to get his opinion. Or maybe you could post some pictures here. Some of us may be able to give you a bit more info by looking at some pics.

It's definitely possible. Even if the lid pressure didn't do any damage, the thrashing that he did during the event could have done real injury. I don't want to disturb him again tonight. It's only been about 50 hours since he ate a very large pink. I'll take some pics tomorrow, if I can. Then maybe you can help me determine if a vet visit is in order. Thanks Terri.

[SSSara]

Dean - I'm truly sorry that something like that should happen to someone who obviously loves his snakes so much. I can relate. At the Living Lab (An awesome program we have at my school - volunteers like myself take care of a number of different reptiles after school) we got a semi-adult corn, beautiful snake. I loved him instantly, and because of his red, orange and yellow colours I named him Pyro :P. I set up his tank with care, but unfortunately and to my complete shame, with all the other animals in the Lab that needed taking care of, I forgot to fill his water dish. The next day when I checked up on him, he had died of dehydration. While the teacher co-ordinator of the program assured me that one night without water would not usually kill a snake, and that it must have been without water for a while before he came to our Lab, I was devestated. To think that a careless error on my part took the life of such a beautiful creature made me feel absolutly horrible. It took me a while and many kind words from friends before I was comfortable and confident enough to come back to the Living Lab. Fortunately, that experience taught me to be much more careful, and didn't discourage me from getting a snake of my own. I hope that Bill will recover fully, and that you will be at ease knowing that, as many people have already told you, these things can happen to anyone.
Keep smiling :)

[ghosthousecorns]

Wow I juat read this thread...I'm sorry about the accident. I hope Bill gets better.I think if he ends up with a funky head stance but nothing else wrong it'll give him personality.
I've caught a tail in a lid by mistake, I know how awful I would feel in your shoes.
Oh yeah and I had my foot run over by a honda civic once but walked away (thanks to steel toed boots) with nothing sore but my feelings at the driver.
I'm glad you are getting so much support here! and only one Negative Nellie in the bunch.

[Hurley]

I am glad he seems to be okay for now. Pretty soon his dilema will be bigger than the Biggest Thread Ever, lol.

LOL, I was just saying this while opening the thread. :grin01:

[babbaloo99]

I too just read the thread and empathize with you deeply. A couple months back, I found one of my 05 butters with his neck pinched between the glass of the viv and a plexiglass divider I hadn't sealed properly. The snake was limp and I thought he had been a goner since I hadn't checked them since I fed them (2 days).

I was opening the viv preparing to remove the "dead" snake when he began moving. I was stunned since his neck seemed completely pinched. I was hopeful since he was at least alive, but then worried about the damage. Well, after I freed him, and observed him for a while, he looked a little like Bill sounds. I left him be with light supervision, and as luck would have it, he turned out with no residual effects. So when folks here talk about how durable these guys really are, I now know it for a fact. Good luck to you and Bill!

[MegF.]

I hope things turn out fine for you Dean. These guys are remarkably resilient and seem to come thru some of the worst stuff without a hitch. It's too bad you aren't closer. I could sneak him into work and x-ray him like I did Minuet. We've all made errors and frankly, I think of my corns like my kids and would feel horrible if something happened. I too accidently taped my Green Tree python to her perch although due to daily checks I found her early in the morning. I thought I was the biggest idiot on the planet and couldn't understand how I could have done something so stupid. A little olive oil and a couple of hours and the tape was off. She's no worse for wear. I'm betting on Bill coming out of this fine.

[ratsncorns]

Dean, I am so sorry about Bill. These little guys definately are resilient little things I hope that he pulls through. Good sign that hes digesting, but definately keep an eye on him and keep us updated. Something like this is what I am afraid of doing in the one moment of distraction. But it happens to the best of us, good luck with him.

[Gintha]

Awwww *hugs Dean* don't beat yourself up hun, we all make little mistakes like this. I shut poor Hunter's tail in the lid of his ziploc feeding tub, it was kinked for 3 or 4 days and I was SO worried about him! I also had one of those glue on thermomiters on the inside of his tank and he managed to glue himself to it and the stress caused a regurge ~,~ I still feel sooo bad for both occurrences.

I think most of us worry about the snakes more than we need to, for instance we know they do fine without food for a good period of time, but if the refuse one meal.. how many of us worry about them? *raises hand*

We all know how well you care for your snakes, and we all know that you will do everything you can for Bill. The fact that hes moving normally, digesting, and sounds like hes as active as any normal corn should be good news =) Brain damage usually causes some outward signs, and so does broken vertebrae (I know that for a fact.. I got run over by a car, my spine slammed into the edge of the curb and CRUNCH broken vertebrae! 4 years later and I still have adverse effects from it).

I hope hes fine hun, and you too... don't worry yourself too much. *more hugs*

[dionythicus]

I'm pulling for you and Bill!

Here's my sad little story to ad...When we were trading babies with a friend, we were all so excited about looking at all of the babies in their plastic tubs, opening and closing lids multiple times to pick out which ones we wanted. I never realised until we got home that one of the babies had gotten its tail smashed between the lid and the tub when the lid was closed. It was really bad. The tail was flat, skin was broken and you could see the tiny little bones. It has since healed; the very end died and fell off within two sheds and now there's a kink with almost an inch of hardened tail that works as a great rattle! He still gets freaked out when you open the lid and take him out, but he settles down.

I call it operator error when I make a mistake like that. I hope Bill will be alright. I know of a grown corn with a healed broken back who eats like a champ and does just fine.

Hang in there!

[Roy Munson]

Well, I'm glad this thread has turned into more than a pity party for me. There are some instructive stories in this thread, and I've learned a lot from them myself. The incident hasn't done much for my paranoia. You should see me racking a tub now. I do a septuple check before snapping the lid, and it takes me 45 seconds to slide the tub in as I monitor the snake's position the entire time. :rolleyes:

I was going to post pics of Bill here tonight, but I decided that I'm going to leave him alone for a couple of nights. I really don't want to exacerbate his injury by prompting him to move around. He is resting in a normal corn posture at the moment.

[Lennycorn]

The incident hasn't done much for my paranoia. You should see me racking a tub now.

I thought you were going to say "trying to pull up my zipper now.

Sorry Dean, Just thought you need a smile by now.

Ok, flame on.

[Roy Munson]

I thought you were going to say "trying to pull up my zipper now.

Sorry Dean, Just thought you need a smile by now.

Ok, flame on.

:roflmao: You insensitive cad! No seriously, that was funny, and I always need that. I've worn sweatpants since the accident. :grin01:

[Preita]

I shut poor Hunter's tail in the lid of his ziploc feeding tub, it was kinked for 3 or 4 days and I was SO worried about him! I also had one of those glue on thermomiters on the inside of his tank and he managed to glue himself to it

Man your snake sounds as accident prone as me! Lucky for me I only manage to step on cats (an in the instance yesterday break my own toe :confused: )

I'm hoping for you Dean it's only swelling. Best wishes!

[gardenmum]

Wow, missed this thread till now. Sorry to hear you had such a thing happen, Dean. Like everyone else, I will add to the..... It wasn't intentional so don't beat yourself up too much over it..... remarks you have been getting. While it was definitely an extremely unfortunate accident, it was just that, an accident.

Anyone who has owned any number of snakes will be able to tell you that they have made costly mistakes or accidents at times. And I use the word costly not in the money sense but in the "life" sense. I have accidentally killed or hurt a couple in my dealings and, although it bothered me horribly (Terri can attest to one incident in which I was ready to get rid of all my crew I was so terribly upset with my stupid mistake), I have to regretably say that I know that it is inevitable that sometime, someway, a mistake will happen again. This may be your first such accident but if you continue in this hobby, I would venture to say it won't be your last. We are not working with dogs or cats here, with animals that are domesticated and pretty much do as we expect them to. These guys are going to try to get free at all costs, they are going to get themselves into situations, such as you experienced, when we don't expect it, and we are not going to be able to forsee all the possible accidents that can happen. AND it is inevitable that when we find we have to multitask that the chances of things happening rises. This is not said to excuse what happened/happens but to try and put a logical prospective on it.

I don't want anyone to get me wrong......I am NOT trying to say that when things happen we should brush it off and think, 'oh, well, it's going to happen sooner or later', but that after we suitably "beat ourselves up over it" that we also understand that we are human and we are going to make mistakes and that these mistakes are much easier to make with a species of animal that would rather not be in contact with humans and have no social tendencies. I am also NOT saying that we should ever take these incidences with an indifferent attitude, never. Our care should always be with the best health of our snakes in mind. I guess what I am trying to say is that you did the right thing, you came to a place where people would listen and understand and help you through the trauma of the event, and also, that if you stay with this hobby be prepared for more heartache as well as the joy of it.

I hope that the little guy ends up ok, even if it means having a tilted head all the rest of its life. Hey, he just might be your most endeared snake after all is said and done and get special status treatment...lol....not a bad trade off for him, hey? :)

[MegF.]

Well hopefully with all these stories being posted, we'll all learn the lesson of not getting complacent. I'm sure I'll spend extra time making sure no one is snapped in a door or lid, and I'll certainly never have any tape anywhere near my snake. And Dean.....for extra protection, you can always wear a cup with those sweats......

[Joejr14]

Dean, this is the Cornsnake Police. You must forfeit all of your snakes at once, to me.

I will PM with the address later.

[MegF.]

Oh puleeezzzzeee Joe!! We know you have psychiatric problems that has led to your placement in a rubber room on more than one occasion! I think they should all go to me....uh, could you send the rack too.....I'd need something to put the babies in......

[Roy Munson]

Dean, this is the Cornsnake Police. You must forfeit all of your snakes at once, to me.

I will PM with the address later.


Oh puleeezzzzeee Joe!! We know you have psychiatric problems that has led to your placement in a rubber room on more than one occasion! I think they should all go to me....uh, could you send the rack too.....I'd need something to put the babies in......

Thanks for your support. :rolleyes: ;) We'll work out the details later.

[LizardMom]

Just caught this thread, and I hope your little Bill continues to do well. As a fairly new snake owner, I am also paranoid. If an accident like that can happen to someone who has the experience and commitment to your animals that you do, it can happen to any of us. :eek1:

The funny thing is that, before I went to the herp show to get my first corn snakes, I actually went to a local pet store to 'test handle' a hatchling! I was terrified that I would either grab it too hard, or let the little thing slither right out of my hand and fall to the floor! I passed the test, and was so captivated by the one little hatchling that insisted on crawling back up my arm when I went to put him back, that I bought him, over-priced little amel that he was. He's still probably my favorite, friendliest snake.

You're one of my heros, so keep your head up. Things just happen sometimes.

[Marcel Poots]

Dean,

I have read only the first page of this thread. I want to give you a story that happend at my place. I was feeding two Butters that where pretty weak feeders. They where close to a year old. These two snakes where housed together. After feeding they where placed back in their enclosure. These two snakes lived in the same cage. After I had locked the cage I noticed the male zooming in on the female as if she was a mouse. And wham, he grabbed her and started to constrict her. Before I had the key of the lock and opened the cage and had him to let go we where a few minutes futher in time. The female felt limb and hardly moved. I thought I had lost her. I placed her alone and she started to move after a few hours.. Ever since then when I handled her she acted really weird. Like crawling backwards and twisting her head. But she continued to feed. And at age two she was 300 grams and she laid 8 fertile eggs after I had placed her with the male. I think snakes are quite hardy animals. Especially corns. I really hope your Blizzard will be as though as my female Butter.

[Virago]

Happy too hear he's doing ok. Should be fine.

Here's my story. So I get my first corn and put him in his 5 story viv. He escaped 2 times. So I build him an inescapable viv out of a melamine side table. The little bugger was pushing on a seam and found out the melamine was hollow. Well I get home from work and find his whole head stuck in the wall of his viv.(this was at the top of the viv so he was hanging) I picked a little piece of melamine away and his head popped out. Where his neck meets his head there was a cut right through the skin(from rubbing on the edge of the melamine) you could see red muscle or somesort of inside in the cut. Also the top of his head was pointing straight and the bottom was on a 90 degree angle. Head looked live a "v". When he got out he started twisting in circles.( trying to snap his mouth back in place). So I put papertowel for a substrate and put polysporin on his cut everyday. He popped his mouth back and today he only has a little scar under his chin.

Sorry this is so long but its not the end.....

I was so mad at myself and didn't find this site yet that I put duct tape on every sharp edge in his viv. Well...
The next day I find him hanging again, with his whole body stuck to the tape. For the second time I think he's dead. Not the case. I put on oven mitts and so gently got him off the tape. This was three years ago.

Needless to say he is fine. He pulled through and he's my favorite, calmest snake I have.
Sorry this was so long.........

Best of luck

[Preita]

Hey Dean-
How's Bill? Hope he's doing better!

[raiders3521]

been following this thread from the beginning...please let us know asap how your little guy is doing! fingers are crossed...

[Gintha]

So, after reading all these stories we know that tape is a BAD idea ~,~ Treasure was in the same viv as Hunter (not at the same time, last year before he got his 33 gallon) and he never managed to stick himself to the glue... Hunter on the other hand... he'll get himself in any bad situation he can! Hes a little klutz!

How's Bill doing Dean? I've been worried about him... typical female huh? Not sure I've ever even seen a pic and I'm all worried about him! Aw well hehe... hes a corn, being adorable is a requirement! Let us know hun =) *more hugs again* hehe

[Roy Munson]

Thanks guys. I'll be posting an update tonight (I'm at work right now).

[Gintha]

Guys?! Bah!!! I'm not a guy!! =P Least I don't think I am *looks in pants* nope... still a girl =P (If I make one person smile with that, then my day is made =P)

[bribrian]

Guys?! Bah!!! I'm not a guy!! =P Least I don't think I am *looks in pants* nope... still a girl =P (If I make one person smile with that, then my day is made =P)

Consider your day made........PMSL.. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[CornCrazy]

Consider your day made........PMSL.. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:You know they make adult diapers for that problem, don't you? :grin01:

[Gintha]

=D Hopefully it'll make Dean laugh too hehe, smiling is the best reliever for stress, and I know hes stressing. I can definitely relate, I freak out if one of the boys doesn't want to eat his squeaker, last week it was Treasure, then I realized hes going into shed and calmed down. But for that first little bit I was upset. And I cried like a baby when Hunter glued himself to the thermomiter and viv.

Think I'd be less worried if I had human children instead of animal children hehe... kids can say where it hurts or if it hurts at all, whereas with these little guys they could be 100% fine and we'd be going OMG! Is he gunna live?! OMG OMG OMG! Not trying to make light of the situation, just adding some comedic relief and of course, some more virtual hugs for Dean *HUGS*

[cornsnakekid92]

I just had something similar happen to me that someone had poster earlier, My 13' sand boa had her head in between the screen and cage on her 10 gallon and was hanging, how she got up their, only god knows considering it is a 12'' tank! and it seems Gintha like to give e-hugs... :)

[Roy Munson]

Guys?! Bah!!! I'm not a guy!! =P Least I don't think I am *looks in pants* nope... still a girl =P (If I make one person smile with that, then my day is made =P)

:roflmao:

Sorry about that. "Thanks people" sounds kinda stiff; "Thanks guys and gals" is offensive to some; and "Thanks guys and womyn" is so cumbersome. :grin01:

[bribrian]

You know they make adult diapers for that problem, don't you? :grin01:

I know, but they don't half cause a rash !!! :awcrap: (y) :grin01:

[gardenmum]

:roflmao:

Sorry about that. "Thanks people" sounds kinda stiff; "Thanks guys and gals" is offensive to some; and "Thanks guys and womyn" is so cumbersome. :grin01:


Actually, the term "guys" doesn't bother me. We use it all the time here with it meaning "everyone" when we say it. We just don't think if it in a male sense anymore. lol.

But, Dean, maybe using the all or everyone would help you out. :) AND...Ummm....womYn????? :eek1:

[Bobo's Mama]

I just had something similar happen to me that someone had poster earlier, My 13' sand boa
Wow! A 13 foot sand boa? Dang that's big!:grin01:

[bribrian]

Don't forget the update Dean !!!

[Roy Munson]

But, Dean, maybe using the all or everyone would help you out. :) AND...Ummm....womYn????? :eek1:

:grin01: I've never seen it written like that. In a way, it's kind of cool, if unsubtle. ;)

Bill Update: Checked him out a few minutes ago. He has pooped, and it appears normal. I took some pics of him, and the flash got him moving around, and tongue-flicking as usual. The shot where his head is completely sideways, against his body, is how I found him resting. I tried to be objective in evaluating his movement, but I'm pretty sure that I saw maybe a 20-25% increase in range of motion. In a few of the shots you can see that his head is almost level. His neck/head movements are still jerky, as if he's straining against something. I was also worried about his water-bowl access, so I poured a tiny bit of water into a Pringle's lid, and left it for him. When I looked a few minutes later, he was drinking it.

So I don't know where he'll end up, but he seemed genuinely to have been a little better today. Sometimes things are more apparent in photos than they are to the naked eye. With this in mind, I had some anxiety looking at the photos. Except for the head tilt, I'm not seeing anything else unusual in the pics. Hopefully some of the vets, vet techs, and other qualified people around here can tell me if there is something I'm missing. I'd greatly appreciate it.

[gardenmum]

Looks like he has handled his awful ordeal pretty well. He may have a 'bit of a tilt' all his life, but won't affect his marriage activities I'm sure. Hopefully he'll stay in good health now.

Thanks for the update and the pictures. I am sure you were relieved to see he seemed better. :)

[Preita]

The first picture looks alarming, but the other two look pretty good. You do see a tilt but it's not at a right angle or anything.

He's proving to you how tough he can be (even though he's not one of your 05 jumbos :D)

Best of luck!!!

[Roy Munson]

Looks like he has handled his awful ordeal pretty well. He may have a 'bit of a tilt' all his life, but won't affect his marriage activities I'm sure. Hopefully he'll stay in good health now.

Thanks for the update and the pictures. I am sure you were relieved to see he seemed better. :)

Yeah, I'm somewhat relieved. I think he's going to live, but I guess that really depends on whether he can resume feeding. I won't be making the attempt until the middle of next week at the earliest, so we'll see how that goes. If when all is said and done, a head tilt and "performance issues" are the only residual problems, I'll be happy with that. I think my female blizzard will be busy with various blood-combo males for a couple of years anyway, so he can be babied through as long a convalescence as he needs. ;)

The first picture looks alarming, but the other two look pretty good. You do see a tilt but it's not at a right angle or anything.

He's proving to you how tough he can be (even though he's not one of your 05 jumbos )

Best of luck!!!

Thanks. I agree about the first pic. When I opened the tub, he was like that. I suppose that he probably adopted a position that put the least strain on his injury, but it was alarming to me too until he started moving.

And yeah, he seems pretty tough. He is a very slow grower. I can't imagine that his revised diet of infrequently offered, single, small pinks is going to help in that area.

[Preita]

maybe his brush with death will turn him around? :)

[ultimuttone]

I am so glad to see he is doing better! I can imagine how relieved you are. We'll all be hoping his feeding goes well next week and looking for more updates :).

[Kat]

I'll add my own little stupid oversight story. One year in a pet store, I found these little rodent waterdishes with the cutouts on the side... This made them an ideal waterdish for baby cornsnakes, since they could hide underneath. I bought a whole mess of them, rinsed them off, and used them for my hatchlings that year.

The next year, I went to re-use them. Being in a hurry, I ran them through the dishwasher instead of spraying and wiping them down. Unfortunately, the UPC sticker was on the bottom of the waterdish, and while the paper part of the sticker dissolved completely, the glue remained. I put the dishes in the hatchling containers when I set them up, and went about my normal snakekeeping. A couple days later, I was surprised to find out that none of the hatchlings had touched the mice I'd given them the night before. I disposed of the pinks and went to change the water... only to find hatchlings stuck to the bottoms of most of the water dishes. It took lots of careful work to free them, and I think some of them were too traumatized to start feeding and starved to death.

Needless to say, I don't use waterdish-hides with any sort of sticker on the underside anymore. (Most of my hatchlings drink out of little glass condiment dishes now...)

-Kat

[hana]

I somehow missed this thread untill just now. I sure do hope Bill recovers for you Dean. And like everyone said, don't beat yourself up about this. We all make mistakes. Even people as perfect as me. :grin01:



hana

[Roy Munson]

I'll add my own little stupid oversight story...

Yet another very instructive story. I was thinking that it would be helpful to compile all of these stories into a sticky thread sometime. Maybe it would keep people from making the mistakes we've made. Of course, I'd read of a case similar to my own only weeks before Bill's incident... and it happened anyway. :rolleyes:

[Roy Munson]

We all make mistakes. Even people as perfect as me. :grin01:


I refuse to believe that you've ever made a mistake. Buying a monkey would be a mistake for me, but you make it work! :grin01:

[ultimuttone]

Yet another very instructive story. I was thinking that it would be helpful to compile all of these stories into a sticky thread sometime. Maybe it would keep people from making the mistakes we've made. Of course, I'd read of a case similar to my own only weeks before Bill's incident... and it happened anyway. :rolleyes:
I think that would be a good idea. Even though accidents will always happen, it might help to have a better idea just what kinds of things to be careful of. Sometimes it is something we would never consider a potential problem (like UPC sticker glue).

[mbdorfer]

I think he looks pretty darn good Dean. That first pic may seem alarming, but considering what happened, looks like he's just got a "headache". My money's on Bill.....Go Bill!!!!! :cheers:

[Preita]

IBuying a monkey would be a mistake for me, but you make it work! :grin01:

lol seriously you made me do the laugh/snort! My husband likes to tease me about getting a monkey because I'm seriously afraid of them. I tell him if I wanted something in diapers & flinging poo (not all are like that I understand) I would have a 2 year old :D

[MegF.]

It's too bad you can't use a chiropractor for him. Little neck adjustment! I would want an x-ray first though. As far as tape or anything sticky, I can testify that vegetable oil or olive oil will do the trick everytime! A simple soaking or use a q-tip to drip the oil on will dissolve most tape and sticky glue residue in no time. Troy, who I got my Green tree python from has had the cornsnake hatchlings get out and get stuck to the glue traps he puts out to catch errant crickets. A shallow bath of vegetable oil and they are off the glue in a few minutes.

[Roy Munson]

I think he looks pretty darn good Dean. That first pic may seem alarming, but considering what happened, looks like he's just got a "headache". My money's on Bill.....Go Bill!!!!! :cheers:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's going to make it. I can't be unrealistic in my expectations for his speedy rehabilitation. If my neck was caught in the front door, and then someone applied a vice to the whole thing, I'd probably look pretty bad a mere five days later. My money's on Bill too. :)

lol seriously you made me do the laugh/snort! My husband likes to tease me about getting a monkey because I'm seriously afraid of them. I tell him if I wanted something in diapers & flinging poo (not all are like that I understand) I would have a 2 year old

I'm scared of them too. I think I watched the movie "Monkeyshines" a few too many times in the late eighties. It combined two of my most intense phobias: confinement/immobility and... monkeys. :shrugs:

[Roy Munson]

I think that would be a good idea. Even though accidents will always happen, it might help to have a better idea just what kinds of things to be careful of. Sometimes it is something we would never consider a potential problem (like UPC sticker glue).

Yeah, I still think it's a good idea. And that UPC glue thing... you know I'm paranoid, but even that one never occurred to me. (And I had a "tape incident" in the early '90s). What else haven't I imagined... :eek1:

[Joni Garcia]

I'm glad to see how well Bill is doing. I bet that's a relief. We'll be looking forward to an update on his feeding next week. I hope all goes well.

[Preita]

I'm scared of them too. I think I watched the movie "Monkeyshines" a few too many times in the late eighties. It combined two of my most intense phobias: confinement/immobility and... monkeys. :shrugs:

I think it's really that I don't trust anything thats almost as smart as me. There is this part in the movie "The Rundown" with The Rock and they are all to drugged up to move & monkies come out of the jungle. Pretty funny, but I think I would break down crying if that happened.

I also have this huge thing about sharks. I will cry if I have to go more than knee deep in the ocean.

[Preita]

I didn't even know there was a phobia for monkeys

Pithikosophobia

[cornsnakekid92]

My Phobian is ...... Bees......and dying alone

[jzal8]

wow lookin good roy...im glad to see it

[Susan]

It sure does look like Bill has a little trauma-induced proprioceptive (balance) problem going on. I have no idea if anti-inflammatories might help, and sure have no idea what anti-inflammatory and dosage could be used on the little guy. If it's just caused by some inflammation as a result of the trauma, and no permanent damage has been done, time should fix it as well. If I get a chance, I'll look in my book and see what Dr. Mader has listed as a good anti-inflammatory and the dosage for snakes. Maybe Hurley has that info readily available and could make a suggestion. I'm even thinking a nice warm bath might help...helps me when I'm full of aches and pains!

[MegF.]

I'm wondering if steroids would help with inflammation? I know in humans and mammals, steroids are used routinely with spinal injuries and other inflammatory problems. I'm not sure how they would work on reptiles though.

[Gintha]

Hes looking good Dean! A little stiff and sore, but at least hes in one piece with no outright huge injuries! *cheers for Bill* Hes looks like I did when I tore the musles in my neck (owwww) kept my right ear on my shoulder for 3 weeks, and boy was it hard to straighten my neck after that!

For the record: I don't mind being included in "guys" hehe.. was just trying to get some smiles =) And yes, I do love to give virtual hugs, and RL hugs... and e-hugs... I'm a huggy person! *hugs everyone* =D Especially like to hug Dean... cause hes adorable and has lots of snakes =O *hugs Dean some more* hehe

[dionythicus]

I'll add my own little stupid oversight story. One year in a pet store, I found these little rodent waterdishes with the cutouts on the side... This made them an ideal waterdish for baby cornsnakes, since they could hide underneath. I bought a whole mess of them, rinsed them off, and used them for my hatchlings that year.

The next year, I went to re-use them. Being in a hurry, I ran them through the dishwasher instead of spraying and wiping them down. Unfortunately, the UPC sticker was on the bottom of the waterdish, and while the paper part of the sticker dissolved completely, the glue remained. I put the dishes in the hatchling containers when I set them up, and went about my normal snakekeeping. A couple days later, I was surprised to find out that none of the hatchlings had touched the mice I'd given them the night before. I disposed of the pinks and went to change the water... only to find hatchlings stuck to the bottoms of most of the water dishes. It took lots of careful work to free them, and I think some of them were too traumatized to start feeding and starved to death.

Needless to say, I don't use waterdish-hides with any sort of sticker on the underside anymore. (Most of my hatchlings drink out of little glass condiment dishes now...)

-Kat


I use those dishes, too, and I noticed the sticky residue as well. I tried to take the UPC off when I brought them home and realised that it would be more difficult that it first appeared. I tore off a bit of papertowel and pressed it down to the glue to keep it from sticking to the snake. No problems since then.

Dean, glad he seems to be doing okay. Keep us posted.

[SeethersWind]

I use those dishes, too, and I noticed the sticky residue as well. I tried to take the UPC off when I brought them home and realised that it would be more difficult that it first appeared. I tore off a bit of papertowel and pressed it down to the glue to keep it from sticking to the snake. No problems since then.

Dean, glad he seems to be doing okay. Keep us posted.



Not to change the subject, but you guys outta get some goo gone. takes that sticky crap right off. . but it does have a strong orange smell.. . which does come off with lots of scrubbing. :)

[dionythicus]

I'd rather use a bit of papertowel than chemicals. But that's getting into a different topic.

[Susan]

I located some info. Dexamethasone has been used in reptiles for septic shock and for trauma. In mammals, they specifically mentioned head trauma as a use. The reptile dosage is 0.0625 to 0.25 mg.kg IM or IV. I'm sure you would have to get a diluted solution in order to accurately dose your little Bill.

[Roy Munson]

I located some info. Dexamethasone has been used in reptiles for septic shock and for trauma. In mammals, they specifically mentioned head trauma as a use. The reptile dosage is 0.0625 to 0.25 mg.kg IM or IV. I'm sure you would have to get a diluted solution in order to accurately dose your little Bill.

Thanks for the info Susan. I checked him out earlier today, and his range of motion seems greatly improved. Thursday will be twelve days since the injury, and that's when I'll attempt to feed him the smallest pinky I have. If he refuses, I'll give him another few days and try again. If he doesn't eat, it will definitely be vet time.

[Hurley]

Keep in mind with steroids (dexamethasone, solu-delta-cortef, solu-medrol, prednisolone, prednisone, DexSP, whatever your choice) for use in head/spinal trauma that you really do need to get it on board almost as the incident happens. In mammals, if they are out after a day, I generally won't bother. It's still controversial whether or not it really does help, even in the acute stages, but it's a "can't hurt, could help" type of scenario. This far out, I doubt it would be of much benefit to Bill. I think "tincture of time" will do the most for him. My thoughts are with you both that he comes around.

[Gintha]

Hows he doing now Dean? After reading all these accident posts, I've become extremely carfeful with the boys... soooo worried I'll hurt them ~,~

[Roy Munson]

Hows he doing now Dean? After reading all these accident posts, I've become extremely carfeful with the boys... soooo worried I'll hurt them ~,~

Thanks for your concern, Gintha. One cool thing about this thread is that it contains a lot of examples of simple mistakes that can have serious consequences. I'm sure this won't be my last error, but it WILL be the last of its kind.

I haven't done a thorough check on him for a few days. He's never been particularly active, so I can't make much of his apparent lethargy since the incident. It's been ten days since the accident, so I'm going to assess his recovery level tonight, and decide if I should make a feeding attempt with a tiny pink. I'll update then.

[Preita]

Best of luck. I know how hard it is to worry about a pet. My husband was painting with oils & my cat jumped up onto his table & ended up getting a face full of paint thinner. That's the night we learned there is a posion control hotline for animals.

Wish you & Bill the best!!!

[Susan]

So did Bill eat?

[schilsound]

... have been following this one, keeping my mouth [uncharachteristically] shut all the wile thinking good thoughts for Bill.

I have had some serious self-doubt over the last week because I let my first baby out of its' enclosure on accident Sunday, and I am feeling the trepidation over the ~what if's~ every day. I no longer walk around my house unaware of how I am stepping, etc.

And I am not sure if it would be any better if I knew where she was and she felt bad. . . . So I guess I'm trying to say I am pulling for Bill pretty hard right now, and feeling more than a little empathetic to your plight. Hope he eats tonight

[Preita]

So did Bill eat?
I was just wondering the same thing :D

Best wishes Dean!

[Roy Munson]

I tried to feed Bill a small f/t pinky Thursday night. He didn't eat it. It's not an alarming thing in and of itself. He goes back and forth between accepting f/t and not all the time. It wouldn't shock me at all to find that only live will kick-start his appetite now, after all the trauma. I wanted to get him a live pink today, but non-corn obligations prevented this. I'm going to try tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks so much for the concern. I do appreciate it very much.

[Preita]

:D (There should be a hugging icon because you'd get that too...funny how we have so many fighting ones! lol)

[Roy Munson]

:D (There should be a hugging icon because you'd get that too...funny how we have so many fighting ones! lol)

Awww. Well, your words are more expressive than any emoticon could be, so be as content with them as I am appreciative. :)

[Mary-Beth]

I have had some serious self-doubt over the last week because I let my first baby out of its' enclosure on accident Sunday, and I am feeling the trepidation over the ~what if's~ every day. I no longer walk around my house unaware of how I am stepping, etc.


I know what you mean. My little Ozzy escaped almost a year ago, but I still check the toaster every time I'm going to use it. :cry:


How's Bills head tilt Dean? Is it getting less pronounced?

[Roy Munson]

How's Bills head tilt Dean? Is it getting less pronounced?

Well, it's been just over two weeks since the accident. It looks like he's regained full mobility in his neck; he's able to turn either way, and straighten it out. He is no longer sleeping with his head turned on its side. But the tilt is definitely still there when he moves, and he appears to be having balance issues. When I pick him up (which I've only done for the f/t feeding attempt), he sort of "rolls" in my hand. His overall head/neck movement still seems a little jerky, as if his balance is affected.

I'm trying to be optimistic, because he's made great progress, and besides the balance issue, he appears to be completely healthy. But I think the poor boy is going to have that balance issue for the rest of his life. :( How long that life will be depends on whether I can get him eating or not. I've got to head out to the pet store soon, and get him a tiny live pink. I will update after I make that feeding attempt.

Thanks for your concern, Mary-Beth. The support of everyone here has meant a lot to me.

[marty.warwick]

I've been checking up on this thread a lot, keeping up with the progress 'Lil Bill' is making. :)
I really hope you can get him eating and that he carries on with the progress he's making, in fact, everyone does! This thread alone has had more views and replies than any other in 'Health Issues/feeding problems'!

Looking forward to the feeding update. Hope he does eat well :)

[cornsnakekid92]

I really hopes that he eats for you!

[ultimuttone]

I am so glad to hear he has made so much progress :). I too will be continuing to check in on his recovery and any updates.

Kind of :-offtopic Isn't it amazing that even though this is a 'virtual community' we all share a genuine concern for each other and our beloved little critters. I know it means a lot to each of us when we go through trials like this to have that support. Something I find rarely happening in the real world, especially in regards to our scaly friends. This thread is proof of that. I am so happy I found this place and proud to be a part of such a wonderful group of people :cheers:

Good luck with the live feeding today, Dean. And *hugs* for Bill :)

[marty.warwick]

Isn't it amazing that even though this is a 'virtual community' we all share a genuine concern for each other and our beloved little critters. I know it means a lot to each of us when we go through trials like this to have that support. Something I find rarely happening in the real world, especially in regards to our scaly friends. This thread is proof of that. I am so happy I found this place and proud to be a part of such a wonderful group of people :cheers:


I totally agree :) I could go on and on and on about my Corn when offline, but I'm sure people would lose interest, It feels so nice to have that place where I CAN go on and on!

[babbaloo99]

Bill!!!.... bill!.....bill!....... :)

(sorry, the spell checker won't let me capitalize his name all the way thru!)

[Roy Munson]

Thanks guys. Traci and Marty really did a great job summing up what makes this forum such a cool place. :)

UPDATE: He ate the tiny live pink! He has always preferred live prey and complete darkness at feeding time, so I put him in the closet with the pink. As a result, I didn't see if he had any trouble with it. But when I checked on him after fifteen minutes, he was done with it, and cruising. When I opened the feeding tub, he gave me an inquisitive look as if to ask: "Um, where's the second pink, man?" Of course with the tilt, he always looks inquisitive now. :grin01:

Since he digested the pink he ate minutes before the accident, I don't think he'll have any problem with this one. I'll probably try an f/t of slightly larger size in four or five days.

I think he's going to make it! Again, you guys have been very kind, and I really appreciate it. :)

[dwyn127]

That's great news Dean! Glad to hear it! I'm sure it's helped you to breath a little easier, too!:crazy02:


And that suggestion you and Traci had about a thread of what NOT to do is a great one; I can add to it as well.

[marty.warwick]

Oh I'm really glad :D
I think he'll be fine, His progress had been really good! If he does continue to suffer from the tilt and the balance problem, But I think hopefully after a while, he'll learn to live with it.
Over the last couple weeks of reading this thread and hearing all the accident stories, Has really taught me what kinda accidents can happen if we're not that little bit more careful, I'm always extra extra cautious now!

Hope the slightly bigger f/t feeding goes well :)

[Bobo's Mama]

That is such great news Dean! Very happy to hear it.

[hana]

I'm so glad he ate Dean! All of my snakes have been keeping Bill in their prayers, so I'm sure he'll do fine. :)



hana

[ultimuttone]

That is so great, he ate! That seemed to be the last survival hurdle. Its all icing now :).

[Hurley]

Sounds like good news, Dean. The head tilt will most likely persist (given how far out he is now with it), but other than being cosmetic, shouldn't affect him. I'd just keep working up the size of food items until he's back on normal food size and treat him like normal. :D Glad to hear he's doing well.

[MegF.]

Awesome news Dean!! I'm so glad he's doing better. Keep us up to date periodically so we know how he's doing over time.

[cornsnakekid92]

:dancer: GO bill!! :dancer: Good luck with him

[PtDnsr]

That's awesome Dean! I've been following this thread but haven't had a chance to respond until now. Glad he's doing better for you!

~Katie

[Joni Garcia]

:dancer: Happy Dance :dancer: Happy Dance :dancer:

Congrats on Bill eating. What a good little guy. I'm so glad to hear the great news.

[CornCrazy]

VERY wonderful news, Dean! Definitely keep us posted on his progress!

[dionythicus]

That's so good to hear, Dean. Keep on eatin', Bill.

[Susan]

ALRIGHT! Way to go Bill! :cheers:

[Roy Munson]

Thanks guys. It will be very cool if he recovers 100%. But if he's healthy, but a bit wonky, I'll take it. :) :)

[Preita]

Of course with the tilt, he always looks inquisitive now. :grin01:

EXCELLENT! I'm so happy that he ate for you. What wonderful news :D & it's good to hear that he has regained mobility too! What resilient creatures.

I do admit though, that when closing the feeding tub I slide it around a little bit before snapping it on giving any errant snake time to get out of the way.

I hope he continues to do well & thrive. You could rename him Bill the tilty? lol It's not a very proud name, but worth a chuckle :D

[madmatt]

I haven't posted in this thread yet, but have been following it and bill's progress!

I am very glad he ate well! It's amazing how tough these little critters can be lol.

Keeping my fingers crossed that he revovers well!

[madmatt]

*Recovers, even.

[LizardMom]

Roy, I'm so happy that Bill is doing so well.

The tilt may always be there a bit, but the balance issue may yet resolve. I know that snakes don't have ears to get that type of balance problem, but even after this amount of time, if there is still a fluid imbalance in whatever snakes use for knowing 'which way is up' it could still clear. Trapped fluid, like in a bruise, tends to take awhile to reabsorb.

Hang in there, Bill! And you, too, Roy!

[cornsnakekid92]

ROY = nickname

Dean = real name ;)

[Roy Munson]

ROY = nickname

Dean = real name ;)

No need, Chris. I answer to both names. I actually get a kick out of being called Roy. The fact that I sign my PMs to my sister with that name just goes to show how I feel about it. :)

------

I figured I'd edit this to add that 48 hours after his pinky, Bill's cruising tonight. He's actually tunneling in the aspen, which I haven't seen him do since before the injury. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but except for the slight tilt, he looked pretty normal tonight. :)

[bribrian]

:crazy02: Bill for president..........then again i remember what the last one did.. :eek1:

[bribrian]

Ok then, day 1 of a three year campaign..........

The 'Get Bill A Monica' campaign............he deserves it.. :grin01:

[Roy Munson]

Ok then, day 1 of a three year campaign..........

The 'Get Bill A Monica' campaign............he deserves it.. :grin01:

Unlike that Bill, this one will rarely be in the company of ladies. Even my Bill's intended "Hillary" has been reassigned, at least for her first couple of breeding years. They may not be a good match anyway. Despite being the same age (Summer '05), his gram weight is in the low twenties, while her's is in the upper nineties. Here's a pic:

[cornsnakekid92]

Perdy liddle latie ( done just to bug you!)

[LizardMom]

ROY = nickname

Dean = real name ;)

Actually, Chris, I know that, but I also remembr him saying he enjoyed being called Roy. And I have so many friends who go by an AKA or alias, that I never think anything about it. I suppose that says something weird about me, but, that's OK, too! :sidestep: