Digital video?

[Rich Z]

I want to start this off with a question of my own.

More and more I am seeing the need to have a video camera for shots that static images just won't capture properly. I have not looked into anything at all, and want to get a general feel for what is available and it's general potential.

What I would be primarily interested in is something that can create video files for posting on webpages.

Anyone using this technology at the moment?

[pcar]

I just got a Sony MiniDV Handycam a year ago that can capture MPEG to a memory stick, and also has streaming software to take video off the tape and directly to your computer. It is nice, and had a fairly good price point.

This is the closest one that is out now to what I got: link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6956396&type=product&productCategoryId=cat15195&id=1099382960858)

[tat2d1]

we've got the same thing as pcar, and i think it works well. i also have a program called dazzle that i can use to make files smaller, or i can convert an mpeg to a wmv file or mpeg to realplayer.

[Joejr14]

I think I've got a Canon ZR50MC. I don't use it all that much, but when Spring football at FSU comes I normally bring that to the stadium. It's got a firewire port on it so dubbing from the miniDV tape to my dvd recorder takes no time. I don't have a firewire port on my new computer, or else I'm sure that would work just as well. Obviously it's easy enough to go from the camera to the computer
(i did it with my old one) to make mpegs.

[zwyatt]

I'm not at all sure if any of this pertains to what you are asking but...

I've been working with a professor on campus making digital video of laboratory techniques. The camera is a pretty fancy Panasonic. I haven't had the need to take still shots with it, but that option is available. It just plugs directly into the Mac (ugh) via a firewire port. I edit the video I shoot using Final Cut and can save any videos or clips in a wide variety of different video formats.

[Rich Z]

Well normally from what I have experienced, you never really know what you want with something completely new to you until you start thinking about buying the second one. The first one just teaches you what it is that you really SHOULD have gotten in the first place, but didn't know enough about it to even ask. ;)

[PssdffJay]

Ah ha! Finally a question that i know a lot about! Sweet! I used to sell home electronics and this might be a long post.

First off is the way you want to record the movies. There are a lot of different formats, VHS (really old), vhsc or svhs (going to be outdated fairly soon), 8mm (digital tape), mini dv (digital tape), and mini dvd (completely digital). Dont bother with a vhs cam or vhsc cam as they are really out of date and an analog source. 8mm tape is digital and almost as good as mini dv but not as good. Mini dvds are cool cause you can take it and pop in a dvd drive and it makes uploading a lot easier, but harder with the software issue. They are also fairly expensive and if you dont get a rw disc, they are a one shot use.

Mini dv is my favorite and i believe the best. Digital tape and it is not going to be outdated any time soon. Great quality and sound and compatible with anyother dv camera.

Second is the zoom. Optical good. Digital BAD!!!!! Think of optical zoom as using a pair of binoculars, it is enlarging the image using lenses.

Think of digital zoom as taking an image, digitizing it into lots of pixels and stretching those pixels to make it bigger. But you do get really bad distortion and pixelization which is not good.

So if you see a camera that says 18x optical zoom that is really good! you will get good clear closeups. But usually you will also see something like 4000x digital zoom, don't get fooled, it isn't as good as it sounds, again with the distortion of the image. Try to just get a really good optical zoom and dont worry about the digital zoom.

Also, there are 2 ways to upload the movie off the camera if you dont go with mini dvd. Firewire and usb. You probably know what usb is, but many dont know what firewire is. It is just as fast and really doesnt matter which method you use, but a lot of older computers dont have a firewire port and will need a card installed if it doesnt. But if it is a laptop and doesnt have it you are SOL. So just check to see if your pc has usb or firewire and check the camera before you buy to make sure you are good to go.

Most come with the software to use, but you can also get WINDOWS MOVIE MAKER, and your pc might already have it, for free from windows or download.com. It is a great program, all the editing you want, titles, music, you name it, plus you can save the final movie in different sizes, for instance uploading on the site or email or whatever.

As for the camera itself (brand), it really doesnt matter a whole lot. Usually differs from lcd display size, zoom, in-camera options (not really important), and little stuff. Just try and find one that has somesort of steady shot enabler, and a light on it. If you need night time shots, i found that Sony has the best night shot, almost like night vision goggles. Other than that, the camera is really personal preference.

Umm, i think that that is all i have to say for now, i hope that this helps you out even the slightest bit. Good luck with your new adventure.

Jay

[PssdffJay]

I forgot one more thing, most come with only a one hour battery (with the lcd closed) so I would recomend getting an aditional battery in maybe the 3 hour range cause it sucks when you are wating to get footage and the battery craps out on you and you dont have an ac outlet around!! :realhot:

[Rich Z]

Thanks for the help, Jay. If you think of any other tips, throw them my way, please.

Oh, any good message boards out there for user feedback and reviews on these devices?

[Rich Z]

What about those mini dvd disks? Are they compatible with all regular full sized DVD players? And I've noticed that some cameras will record in widescreen format. Even saw one that would record sound in 5.1 surround format.

One part of me tells me to buy the cheapest one I can to get my feet wet, but the other side of me tells me to get a more expensive one with as many features as possible so I don't get frustrated by lack of features on the cheaper models. But the higher up in features you go, the more chances of taking a wrong fork in the road. :rolleyes:

[Khaman]

I would not say they are compatible in all players but if it plays +/- R it will play the same disk provided your player has the small dvd "indentation" on it's tray.

I know Sony makes a 5.1 camera so I assume there are other brands as well. I do know not all digital camcorders have a macro option so that is something to look for as well.

[PssdffJay]

About the mini dvd discs, it all depends on what type. There are +r and -r, +rw and -rw, as well as dvd ram discs. It will depend on what dvd player you are using, however if it isnt a rw or ram disc, you will have to finalize it, just like burning a disc, before you can play it.

If you are going to go that way, go with a camera that will support ram discs. They are rewritable and they are random access memory discs, do you know what that is?

For those who dont here is a quick explination. Cds and dvds are like records, the information is recorded in tracks, like records. Does that make sense, hard to explain it without a visual. But anyway, if you scratch the disc, you are pretty much screwed becuase you wont be able to record anymore (rw) or to play it. But with ram discs, it will record in the next available spot if there is anything wrong with the disc, it will jump to an open area to record.

I hope that makes sense, I have always understood it, but I have trouble explainig it.

As for dvd playback, it can be tricky with all the different models cameras, players and discs and unfortunatly, sales people really just want to make a sale, and usually dont know if it will work or not with your set up. I have seen it and I would always say to people that there are so many factors it is really hard to be sure.

Rich, I think you really just need to decide what you want to use this camera for, and think about what you might want to use it for and decide from there. Do you think you would be playing the mini dvds a lot in your dvd player or is that something you might like to have just in case. Or are you usually going to upload the video and edit it first before finishing it for play back. Is this for family, business (corns), expos. Same with options, like 16:9 and 5.1 audio, they are good to have but are they essential to what you want to do? There is a lot to think about, do you know anyone with a camera that would let you borrow it to try it. It would be kinda like buying a cheep one untill you know what you want, but you dont have to pay for it! :)

Or, I know in Canada, Walmart has a really good return policy, if it is the same there, you could buy one and try it out and return it before you make a decision. Try out a few models, you might just have to go to different stores though...

[Rich Z]

This topic is still on the back burner with me, but I've got other things I need to get out of the way first. Taxes, breeding season, impending heart attack because of the first two..... that sort of thing.

But I was looking at some ads this morning in the Sunday paper and noted a digicam boasting 5.1 surround sound. Wha?? How in the world do you capture 5.1 surround signals with a single point source microphone?

I'm thinking I probably need to replace my old DVD reader in my PC, since I don't believe my old one can read the mini discs. And I assume I will need some sort of DVD editing software as well.

My wife has been talking about this video stuff because she wants to get some action video of her leopard geckos. Still photos just don't capture the antics they go through for her.

[Khaman]

Pinnacle Studio 10 is what I use and it works great for me. It works well for analog movies or the pure digital media too. You can buy “Movie Packs” for additional special effects but for what I use it for I don’t need Hollywood</ST1:p quality stuff.<O:p</O:p

[scottrussell]

what i have used previously for video is:
a mini dv camcorder hooked up to my computer via firewire in which i would capture/edit/export with adobe premiere.

now this all depends on how straight laced you are as a person, but adobe premiere is a 600 dollar program that is fairly simple and REALLY good you can download off of any filesharing servers for free. you can go the route of using a cheap 100 dollar program like windows movie maker, or pinnacle, but they try to make it so easy for people to use that it's actually harder than just using premiere which is based more around common sense than making it easy for people that don't know anything about technology to edit their videos.
so if i were to videotape a snake or gecko or something using the method i've used for the past 3-4 years i would:

-Videotape the snake with a miniDV camera
-plug one end of the firewire cable into my camera, plug the other end into the firewire port of my computer (if you don't have one you can buy one at compUSA for 20 bucks; it's a PCI card so if you've ever put one of those in, you just pop it in and let windows install it)
-open adobe premiere (or other editing program), "capture" clips that you want to use and name them appropriately. these are then saved onto your harddrive has FULL quality DV .avi files that are like 3-4mb PER SECOND! (for my uses of filming skateboarding videos, i've filled up two 120gb hard drives just with clips)
-import the full quality files into adobe premiere, export the file into a quicktime, or .mpeg or any other format for internet use.

now this is for best quality possible, if you just want small resolution clips that are ONLY for the web then you could possibly get a camera that records onto a digital format like the other guy was saying; but being the quality freak that i am thats just my two cents.

[Rich Z]

Been doing some reading of reviews of the various digicams available, and so far Sony is at the top of my list. The models I am looking the hardest at are the DVD403, DVD405, and the DVD505.

As for editing software, haven't looked too hard at that yet, but I have seen several people mention Ulead's VideoStudio9 and their DVD Movie Factory.

But in any event, I will need to replace my DVD reader in my computer with a DVD writer if I plan on doing any editing that I would want to write the results back to a DVD. Might be kind of interesting having some video shots of the babies hatching out instead of the regular stills I normally take.

One question I still don't have answered is the close focusing capabilities of these video cameras. In all the reviews I have been reading, no one has mentioned that capability. I guess I could run out to Circuit City and check there, but it's pretty tough getting out the door with breeding season in full swing.

[scottrussell]

hmmm....most have decent up close focusing for video cameras, i think in most cases video cameras will have shorter minimum focus distance than photo cameras. if your even 3 feet away and your zooming in 10x at a hatching i think you'll be fine.

p.s. a top of the line lite-on dvd writer that does anything will only cost you about 50 bucks from newegg.com and they are pretty easy to install.

[Rich Z]

Well with close-ups, "working distance" is an important consideration. For instance, my 60mm micro lens for my regular camera CAN do close ups for small subjects, but in order to fill the screen with a baby snake, the working distance is VERY close. In some cases, TOO close. On the other side of the spectrum, I could use my 200mm micro lens, but then my working distance is too far away unless I only want the head of the baby snake to fill the screen. So what I have found to be perfect, is my 105mm micro. Now when I want close ups of adults, the 60mm is my lens of choice. Or with an interesting bug, then the 200mm fits the bill. With a fixed lens on a digicam, I'm just not sure what sort of leeway I will have on my subject matter at close ranges.

BTW, a 3 foot working distance would be too far away for animals because one hand needs to be working the camera and the other hand needs to be trying to keep the snake where he belongs.

I haven't priced the r/w DVD players recently nor checked on specs of any of them. Just one more aspect of this that I need to look into sooner or later. I probably should have picked a better time of year, however. The critters have finally figured out it is breeding season...... :crazy02:

[scottrussell]

i really can't give you an exact working distance though, im not sure if it's 3 feet that was just an estimate. on my canon minidv i can zoom in about halfway (9x) from about 1-1.5 feet away. the farther you are from the subject,the more you can zoom before it gets out of focus.

[Rich Z]

Well I went by Best Buys yesterday and they had a special sale on a model I was looking at reviews on. The Sony model DVD403. I've been playing around with it today to try to get my feet wet. Still have a LOT to learn. There are about a dozen different DVD formats (DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, DVD-RAM, etc...), some of which may work in my home theater DVD player, and some of which may work in the new DVD reader/burner I just bought. Even in the multiple formats, there are different ways you can use some of the formats that apparently make a big difference in how you can use them afterwards. On top of that my home DVD player says it can read particular DVDs that are "finalized" via a Panasonic format (I guess since the reader is a Panasonic model) which makes me wonder if it will ever be able to read these Sony finalized disks.

Something tells me that this might not become my cup of tea when things are said and done....... More later....

[scottrussell]

yeah, i'm pretty savy (well, used to be) with camcorders and computers...but i am still kinda confused with the whole burning/making/copying dvd things. it's pretty frusterating in my opinion. i would still push miniDV as an option if your not 100% sure you want miniDVD

[Joejr14]

yeah, i'm pretty savy (well, used to be) with camcorders and computers...but i am still kinda confused with the whole burning/making/copying dvd things. it's pretty frusterating in my opinion. i would still push miniDV as an option if your not 100% sure you want miniDVD


IMO, if you're going to mainly capture film with the Video Camera and then bring it onto the hard drive to edit, a miniDVD isn't a necessity. I haven't priced miniDVD-rw discs, but I'm sure they're not cheap. I know with my miniDV, things I've taken video of 2 years ago still look fine.

Most of the editing and such goes on in the computer. I find the miniDV much easier as far as just plugging it into a USB and capturing it from the computer, and then burning it onto a regular DVD-r for later usage.

[Rich Z]

Well at this point, I'm still in learning mode. I have two types of miniDVDs (DVD-R and DVD+RW). My original goals had been to be able to take the miniDVD directly out of the camcorder and plug it into my home theater system AND to be able to take that miniDVD and use it on my home computer to read the files and cut out snippets to post on my sites. And additional use is to be able to edit the files, and perhaps make up some sort of compendium of the clips I have made over the time I will be using the thing.

Apparently not all goals can be easily met with what is available. Supposedly editing the files on the computer is easier with miniDV (tape) then it is with miniDVD (disk). But I don't have a device (or know what is available) to take the miniDV tapes and read them DIRECTLY into my home theater system nor my computer. The miniDV tapes are simply a storage device within the camcorder itself and not really a transportable medium that can be used elsewhere. However, I can hook up the camcorder directly to the home theater system itself through the A/V cables and play the miniDVD disks (and I assume this would work with miniDV tapes as well). Of course, USB can be used in either type of camcorder to send files to and from the computer.

Now, I have heard that the quality of the recording is better on the miniDV tapes as the bandwidth is greater and the compression less then what is used with the miniDVD disks. Without having both to do a nose to nose comparison, I don't know how important this would be to me. I played some test videos from the camcorder to the home theater system and was pretty darn impressed with what I saw.

When I get around to installing my new DVD burner, and get some decent editing software (a product called Womble was recommended for the files used in the miniDVD disks), then I will know a little bit more about that aspect of all this.

The fact of the matter that I got that Sony DVD403 a LOT cheaper then normal (the price at Circuit City was $150 more then I paid for it), may be incentive to keep it instead of just taking it back if I come to the conclusion (in the 14 day period I CAN return it) that miniDV tape is actually a better medium to use.

There are some things I don't like about the camcorder, however. Auto focus seems squirrelly. Probably my inexperience, but it seems to randomly pick parts of the screen to keep in focus. Also the auto gain control is very distracting when the center of attention goes outside of the sensor determining what the brightness balance of the frame should be. But these all may be things I have yet to learn how to control on this camera. Or else they are NOT manually controllable, and this is exactly the sort of thing I thought I was going to have to learn about in hands on useage. But regardless, this would be a handy little camera to have for outside shots in more standard settings then trying to get closeups of animals.

Oh another thing I learned. While watching the test videos I made within the reptile building, the audio pickup picked up all the fans, air conditioners, and air cleaners I have running there. The crickets chirping was right in there as well. All in all, the background noise was way too loud and distracting.

Oh well. So far I like it, but still not sure I made the right choice or not.

[scottrussell]

sometimes when you buy that stuff you think of 5 thinks you wanna be able to do when you actually only ended up using one of them. why do you want to watch it on your home theatre? i'm just making assumptions, but your probaby sick of looking at snakes after taking care of 6,000 babies.. are you really going to want to watch videos of it when your finished? or will more use taken out of it by loading it on your computer for everyone else to see it? that's just my opinion about the subject, because when i videotaped stuff the primary objective was to show it to other people, after doing it for a while i personally lost interest in watching it myself...but there were always a ton of people online that would love to watch it.

[Rich Z]

Believe me, it's a completely different situation between being over in the reptile building working with the animals and sitting in the family room with a bowl of popcorn looking at the videos. The other night when I showed the wife the clips I had captured of her leopard geckos she really enjoyed watching them on the screen.

And truthfully, when I am slinging around 6,000+ babies, I probably won't really "see" everything I need to see while I am working with them. The camera catches ALL details, some of which don't register in the brain right away. I've noticed this MANY times while reviewing the still images I have taken during hatching season.

So the capability of ease of viewing by just popping the disk into the home theater system was what I was looking for. Which is still an unknown at this point since the miniDVD I am using needs to be "finalized" before I can view it that way, and I don't have enough on it yet to do so. So I haven't even ventured into the "jungle of incompatibilities" yet. ;)