feeding only on lizards...how to switch to mice?

[ghosthousecorns]

I have a reluctant eater that I just don't want to lose, she's a beautiful little '05 ghost stripe.
I didn't even register her with ACR yet as I am not sure if she is going to make it. She was eating fine when I got her, then started refusing. I tried everything - live, thawed, overnight, brained, scented (tuna, chicken broth) and even got an anole from the pet store to scent with. Nothing worked, and I've only kept her alive these last few months by force feeding her tails and very small pinkies.
So the other day I caught a little blue belly lizard (western fence lizard) that was the perfect size for her, I put it in the freezer for a few days to kill any parasites and then offered it to her, she gobbled it right up. I'm so happy she ate on her own!
I kept the lizards tail and put it in a baggie with a couple of pinkies hoping the smell will transfer over to the mice. Even though the anole did not work before... My fear is that she's now associating mice with being force fed, if she hadn't been eating pinky mice just fine last year I would have probably euthanized her by now. But like I said this snake is a little beauty and I'd hate to lose her if there's some way to get her feeding again. I'm not sure catching more lizards is a good thing, if she won't eat mice I'd only be postponing the inevitable... I'm worried about parasites and do not want to remove lizards from the wild on principle.
I know a lot of you would just feed a snake like this to your King Snake and be done with it, but I just really want to give her a chance before I give up here... So, any ideas would help thanks!

[MegF.]

Try the scenting with the tail as you were going to do and see what happens. Perhaps you could catch another lizard like the one she ate, and scent the pinky with the saliva of the lizard. Then try that.

[carol]

I've actually had quite a bit of experience with this. Blue bellies are great, and as we get further into spring you should be able to affordably pay off the neighborhood kids to get you a few more young ones.
First and foremost, don't attempt a pinky right away. Once you finally spark their interest, the most important thing is to establish a strong feeding response and to stop the refusal response. If at all possible, offer her at least 3 more lizard meals. If she takes one a week that is fantastic! Then you can proceed. Before the fourth meal, skip a feeding week to insure hunger. For the fourth meal, I rinse of a f/t pink to try and take away as much smell as possible. Then take some frozen lizard skin (this is where the adult lizards come in handy) and cover the pink with strips of lizard skin. When I do this I also make a "ring" of skin from the lizards tail, neck or belly to place around the pinks neck so even if the snake pushes all other strips off, this one will stay in place. I also stuff some lizard skin in the pinks mouth.
In the evening, place this "dressed up" pink in the snakes cage, preferably as far away as the snake as possible. If the ghost is in one corner, put it in the opposite. Then put the bin away and leave the scene ASAP and NO peeking until morning. If this works follow up the next week with a meal exactly the same then slowly start leaving more pink scent and taking away more lizard scent. If it does not work, go back to lizards for another 3 weeks.
This method has worked very well here. Good Luck!

[ghosthousecorns]

Thanks, Meg & Carol...lol, I guess I will have to play 'silence of the lambs' with the poor lizards for a bit..."She's making a lizard suit" :eek:
Too bad there are not that many kids where I live, but I did see a few more blue bellies where I caught the one. They're sure a lot faster than me, but I guess if I got one I can get more. I feel kinda sorry for the little things but I guess my ghost is worth it!

[carol]

One other note, if you can find a spot that they frequent, go out looking on a cold morning. Often you can find them hiding under stuff and when you uncover them, they are too cold to move as fast as normal. The babies also love ants so you may have luck finding them near ant holes. Thank goodness for me, there are a ton down the street by a local creek and they are all over the place at my work.

[ghosthousecorns]

Thanks... There may be better lizard hunting here in a few more weeks as it gets warmer. I sure saw a lot more of them in California than I have been seeing up here. I think the one I caught was a last years' baby and not a newly hatched lizard. I am not sure how long it takes for blue bellies to hatch but there's been some freezing nights here lately so I guess they're still semi - hibernating. Hopefully I can find enough to feed her at least once a week for a few meals like you said.
Does freezing them eliminate all the parasites? I'm kinda paranoid of transferring some kind of wild diseases or worms to my collection.

[CornCrazy]

I have very good luck with scenting the pinks with the lizard saliva, too.

Good luck! I hope you can get the little one switched over to pinks!

[carol]

I think you'll be safe if you freeze them. I think these lizards are probably cleaner than anything you'll find in a neighborhood pet store. If you have a hard time finding babies you can always catch a large one and feed legs, arms, bits of tail... etc.

[ghosthousecorns]

Again thanks Carol. I will give you a rep point when I can... must spread some more around first lol

[carol]

LOL. Seems like I'm always trying to give some to the same people as well, most of the time it won't let me. No worries, it wasn't my motive in helping out. I had decided to work with quite a few lizard eaters using Blue Bellies in 2004, figured I'd share what worked the best.

[galofgrace]

WOW I can't believe that happened to someone else. I thought I was the only one. After 3 lizard feedings, I took a fuzzie (because if he could eat an anole, I knew he could eat a fuzzie) and I rubbed it in some really dirty, stinky, mouse bedding. It worked, and he's taken a couple more since. I hope this helps. :wavey:

[ghosthousecorns]

An update
Just got her to eat a pinky on her own! :dancer: I am so happy. At least something is going right...
I cheated though, I gave her a section of a lizard tail and put the pinky's head next to her mouth as the last bit of tail went in. I think she thought it was still the lizard she was eating!

[jazzgeek]

Thanks, Meg & Carol...lol, I guess I will have to play 'silence of the lambs' with the poor lizards for a bit..."She's making a lizard suit" :eek:LOL! "It rubs the lizard on its skin...."

Congrats on the pinkie, and best of luck with this little one.

regards,
jazz

[ghosthousecorns]

It eats the lizard in the bucket. It does this every time it is told...
Thanks Dale... SOTL is one of my favorite flicks. Too bad rubbing the lizard on it's skin (the pinky's) did not work but I figured I'd try the bait & switch thing before I started skinning, ewww lol.

[MegF.]

Usually if you are using an actual lizard, it's best to scent it with saliva from it's mouth not rub it on it's skin. It leaves a stronger scent.

[ghosthousecorns]

Thanks Meg, I did try that a while back when I caught the alligator lizard, I got it to bite a pinky (very easily) but she didn't go for it. The first lizard I tried was an anole from the pet store, that one also bit a pinky for me but I guess I must have the pickiest snake because even that delicacy was not acceptable... Only blue bellys seem to do the trick.
This was a frozen lizard. It's too big for her to eat the whole thing so I have been butchering it and feeding her pieces, but I could still try putting a pinky in its mouth, I suppose. I am optimistic that she is having such a strong feeding response, at least when it comes to the blue belly scent. I think I am going to try putting the rest of the tail in the pink's mouth next time and see what happens.