learning to eat live...

[recycling goddess]

my two little corns are so weird. they have a heck of a time when it comes to feeding... they take their fuzzy or hopper down just fine but they don't kill them first!

i'm guessing they must have been fed f/t before i got them cause they just think they can simply eat and that's that.

they do attempt to constrict a little bit but never actually kill the prey.

i wonder how long they'll continue being "lousey killers" - cause i sure want them to improve LOL

silly guys...

[moonshadow]

I honestly don't know how long it'll take them to learn to kill those mousies, but I am wondering... if they are used to eating f/t, why do you feed live? Not trying to get into a live vs. f/t debate, I'm just curious... :)

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Why would you wish to purposely feed live when your snakes would willing take frozen/thawed? I am definitly not against feeding live when it's necassary. I have kept ball pythons that would only feed live. Would have I preferred the eat f/t, of course.

[Joejr14]

Why would you wish to purposely feed live when your snakes would willing take frozen/thawed? I am definitly not against feeding live when it's necassary. I have kept ball pythons that would only feed live. Would have I preferred the eat f/t, of course.

Imo, feeding live or freshly killed is infinitely easier than feeding f/t. From my experience, snakes that eat live have better body tones and are stronger.

I see no issue feeding live whatsoever.

[Taceas]

Most of my younger corns were started and are still feeding on live. And as Joe had said, they seem to do a lot better than those of mine who were fed strictly f/t. Fresh veggies usurp frozen veggies any day, and I'm sure the same is true for mice.

From my own experiences, those that eat live pinks very rarely kill them before eating. Its like they know a pink can't possibly hurt them, so they don't waste energy constricting. Most just start swallowing, and usually by the time it gets to the shoulders, the pink stops struggling anyway.

Once they get to fuzzies though, their feeding habits do start to change a little and you'll have some that constrict to the point that's not even funny anymore. Some, I actually get bored waiting and just walk off and leave them with their meal, as it'll be 15-20 mins before they confirm its dead enough to begin eating.

Feeding live for me, as well as others, is a whole lot easier than f/t any day. No picking them out of bags, thawing, drying. Just grab a handful and dole them out. Whatever is left, goes back in the nest to grow up for someone else's future meal.

Snakes I buy were more than likely fed on f/t, which is fine. But once they get here, its live or pre-killed for the most part. Although with so many youngins still around, I'm running out of mice before they can grow up for adult snake food and am having to resort to f/t.

After all, its personal choice...same as cohabitation. We may not agree, but people are still going to do things as they see fit.

[kimbyra]

Ummm, but isn't feeding live dangerous to the snake once they are big enough to feed on adult mice? If they are feeding on live the whole time previously, they might not want to switch to f/t. Not wanting to start a debate here, just thinking that since they are already on f/t why cause future problems?

[Taceas]

It is potentially dangerous when the mice get older, yes. There are risks in life everyday for all creatures.

Although all of the times I've fed live adult mice to my corns or ball python, none have ever gotten within reach to even bite the snake. Snakes do have a lethal instinctual arsenal, it would seem. Most problems seem to come from the owner leaving a hungry adult live mouse with an uninterested snake for hours or for overnight.

However, I do not feed live crawlers through adults. Anything with eyes open and teeth are humanely dispatched before being fed to my snakes. I try to lessen the risks as much as possible.

I've never had a snake yet refuse f/t mice once it was eating consistently on live. All of mine seem to transition easily between the two, regardless of mouse size and whether live, pre-killed, or f/t. Maybe I just have really good snakes...or maybe I just don't nitpick the world to death. ;)

[kimbyra]

Maybe I just have really good snakes...or maybe I just don't nitpick the world to death. ;)

Daaaang, that was harsh. I was just wondering.

[ickle_moose]

I'm going on to pre-killed or f/t from now on since a little b***er bit my snow several times and yanked some scales off her tail. Once you've seen that happen and felt like you couldn't move fast enough to stop it, you don't mind the whole de-thawing process so much! This wasn't a mouse left in over night either, this was 'open feed box, put in mouse, mouse instantly bites your freaked out snake right in front of you'.

However, if I hadn't experienced this, who knows? I wouldn't have got over my mouse-killing ick feelings, and my snow might still be getting live. I have no problem with those who feed live whatsoever, it is just this one experience was so heart-stopping that I personally can't risk it anymore. I heard one horror story of a little mouse biting a year old corn in just the wrong place which meant - happy mouse - dead snake.

[SnakeCreations]

Daaaang, that was harsh. I was just wondering.

Hi Kimberly...

I don't think Misty was being harsh. How I read it was more of a... hey I don't worry to much about things. Of course I can't speak for her, this was only my "take" on what she said.

It's so easy to mis-interpret what people say through chat, Misty please correct me if I'm wrong :D

-Tonya

[kimbyra]

Thats true. The weird thing about online talk is that you really can't gage things well.
Cheers.

[recycling goddess]

the reason i choose to feed live to my corns is the same reason i feed live to my ball... i believe it's healthier for them. not only from a nurishment point of view but also from a "stalk, kill" one as well.

IMO, allowing a living being to live as 'natural' as possible in my care is a goal of mine... regardless what it is. my cats catch moles, rats and unfortunately birds, my tarantulas catch crickets, mealworms (and soon silkworms)... i give my fish live bloodworms whenever i can get ahold of some...

it's just the way i do things... circle of life and all that stuff :P

in light,
Aleesha

[Taceas]

Daaaang, that was harsh. I was just wondering.

I don't think Misty was being harsh. How I read it was more of a... hey I don't worry to much about things. Of course I can't speak for her, this was only my "take" on what she said.

It's so easy to mis-interpret what people say through chat, Misty please correct me if I'm wrong

I wasn't meaning it 100% harshly. Maybe .02%. :D

It just seems as though you over analyze everything from every little angle, when there really aren't that many angles as I see it. Either that or I've got blinders on.

You aren't an engineer are you? ;)

[Serpwidgets]

They generally won't constrict as long as the mouse isn't able to put up enough of a struggle to keep them from swallowing it. Once the mouse starts either "getting away" or biting, they will start constricting.

Every once in a while I feed live adult mice to my adult corns. There are those that have a preference for live and learned to constrict when they were younger. With them, I hold the mouse by the tail so it cannot get to the snake, but the snake can come get it. I also make sure the mouse's head is aimed at the snake, and they're very good about grabbing it on the nose so the mouse can't bite them. The other alternative to that is to use a rat fuzzy, since they are about the same size but cannot harm the snake. (Freshly killed works too, if your issue is not thawing them.)

One of the reasons I prefer to feed f/t is that I can "cut" all the food items before they're fed, since it definitely seems to make a dent in digestion times. Many of mine constrict f/t anyway, because I've taught them to do it. :)

[kimbyra]

I wasn't meaning it 100% harshly. Maybe .02%. :D

It just seems as though you over analyze everything from every little angle, when there really aren't that many angles as I see it. Either that or I've got blinders on.

You aren't an engineer are you? ;)

Ouch - she got me again. Seriously though, I'm fairly new to this snake raising stuff, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can so I wont make big mistakes. They're my pets, so yeah I guess I take that a little seriously. Adjusting to snakes as pets is also a little different then dogs and cats.... but no, I'm not an engineer. I'm a poet. Go figure.

[princess]

I'm from the dead feeding camp.

I've never fed a live mouse and don't intend to if I can avoid it. I just think there are nicer ways for the mouse to die than by being squished to death or swallowed alive...

...as well as the potential risk of injury to the snake.

[recycling goddess]

Serpwidgets, may i ask... why you want your snake to digest faster?

curious,
aleesha

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I'm curious as well...

Since when is it common practice to applaud feeding live when other options are readily available?

[sbourget]

Faster digestion means the snake spends less energy trying to break down the food and more energy on growing and moving. I personally feed F/T because I can't be sure of always having the right sized live mice, and I don't want to risk my snake being killed.

[BeckyG]

I also feed f/t. I feel it is safer for the snake, more humane for the mouse, and cheaper and more convenient for me. I can buy in bulk for a lot less than what I would pay at the pet store, plus I wouldn't have to make that 1 1/2 hour drive to the pet store every week. I don't have the facilities or the wherewithall to raise my own. I'd rather that space be dedicated to housing snakes than mice.

I'm not down on those who do feed live, but it just isn't for me. I don't have a single snake that won't eat f/t, and that includes my approx 2 year old ball python who was only fed live his whole life. He took the very first f/t rat I offered him with no problem whatsoever. So there is no need for me to take the risks involved in feeding live.

[Kitty]

Many of mine constrict f/t anyway, because I've taught them to do it. :)

Thanks to all the veterans for their points-of-view on live vs. frozen. New food for thought for me (no pun intended ... well, maybe a little :P ).

But the statement above intrigues me. How did you teach your snakes to constrict if they weren't doing so naturally?

[BeckyG]

Thanks to all the veterans for their points-of-view on live vs. frozen. New food for thought for me (no pun intended ... well, maybe a little :P ).

But the statement above intrigues me. How did you teach your snakes to constrict if they weren't doing so naturally?

Wiggle the mouse a bit with feeding tongs, and instinct will take over. I find the more vigorously I wiggle, the stronger my snakes constrict. My snow is very violent with her f/t mice.

[Serpwidgets]

Wiggle the mouse a bit with feeding tongs, and instinct will take over. I find the more vigorously I wiggle, the stronger my snakes constrict. My snow is very violent with her f/t mice.Yep, that does the trick. You have to make "arrgh arg arg!!!!" noises when doing it, too. LOL

[Wilder]

My first snake was a shy thing about her food. Tried hiding from the f/t pink the first couple of feedings. Wouldn't even think about constricting them, either.

As she got bigger and was fed larger and furred food, she's turned into a rather quick and efficient killer. I use tongs and hold the mouse as I lower it into the container, but I don't even need to bother teasing her. She's on it and constricting it in no time. I do wiggle the mouse for a little bit to give her exercise though. These days I have to be careful about getting too close when there's food in the picture, since she did miss once and bit my finger.

I can't see that my snakes care either way about the mouse being live or dead. They certainly get their exercise and stimulation all the same, plus the added benefit of cut mice... and no worry that they'll end up bitten.

But I guess the point is... even a snake who is scared of little pinky mice can turn into a vicious killer of dead things. They learn eventually. :)

[BeckyG]

Yep, that does the trick. You have to make "arrgh arg arg!!!!" noises when doing it, too. LOL

THAT'S what I've been leaving out! The sound effects! Thanks Serp, for pointing that out to me. :grin01:

[sumguy]

Have fed live, fresh-killed, and f/t. I prefer fresh-killed since it's safe, quick, and healthier (you'ld think?). The only reason I use f/t is the size availability and price. Taking time to thaw them sucks and I often wonder about the quality of f/t compared to home grown.
:cheers:

[MegF.]

I think if you raise your own mice it's probably healthier to feed pre-killed (I'd personally never chance a bite, I've seen it happen) but the petstore mice can often be covered in urine and fecal matter due to the fact that they are raised together in huge numbers. I don't think that's the healthy way to feed my animal. It's certainly easier for me to run to the petstore and get a dozen frozen mice than run there every week and get live. About half of mine constrict the f/t just like a live mouse and as a matter of fact, my amel has to be fed with tongs so that he doesn't take your hand off getting to the mouse. He's never been fed live except for a few pinkies when he was a baby and he didn't constrict those. As far as the time taken to thaw, I usually change water and clean cages while the mice thaw in the hot water. I use plastic bags now because our county decided it was necessary to throw chloramines in our water. Otherwise, I used to just run hot water over them in a cup until they were good and hot and throw them in the feeder boxes. No drying necessary. The whole bunch eats them wet or dry...they don't care.

[Miss. Araco]

Im new just to start off, and I have only just started feeding my snake... one feeding and her first wit me, 4 fuzzy f/t's, but thats not what Im here to say.... My sister also just got a great corn thats like 4 years old, and she refuses to eat anything, so my sister was like... maybe she's used to live, so she bought two live mice and stuck them in the cage... the snake ignored them... they ignored the snake and so my sister fell in love with them... there names are now pinky and the brain... one female and one male... yay free fresh mice for me....