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Getting Discouraged

BeckyG
04-23-2006, 02:21 PM
My little bloodred baby regurged again. This is the third time.

I've only had her for just over a month. She is 8 months old, but is still very small. She was eating f/t pinkies just fine for the first several feedings. A couple of weeks ago, I bumped her up to two pinkies, to try to get her transitioned to fuzzies. She took the first feeding just fine, but when I fed her two pinkies the second time, she regurged one of them. I was sure it was because of the size of the meal, because her temps are fine and I don't handle her after eating. I promptly ordered some Nutribac from Kathy Love. I waited the requisite 10 days to feed her again, and as soon as the Nutribac arrived, began putting it into her drinking water.

She seems active and normal in every other way, and even shed during the first 10 day wait. I removed her shed, checked her over and measured her. She'd grown an inch and a half since I got her. Before she started regurging, that is. Other than when she shed, I didn't bother her at all, except to change her water daily.

After 10 days, I fed her a single small pinky rolled in Nutribac. The next day, she regurged the partially digested pinky. I waited 10 more days, continued to add Nutribac to her water, and fed her just a pinky head rolled in Nutribac. Just the head left such a huge lump in her. That was yesterday. Today, she regurged the partially digested pinky head.

Tomorrow, I am going to call the vet, but I don't hold much hope that they would know anything about snakes. This is a farming community. They know dogs and cats and horses and cows. I can't imagine them knowing anything about an exotic pet. I guess I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that she will die.

I've read through the FAQ several times, but is there anything else I can be doing for her?

Roy Munson
04-23-2006, 03:10 PM
Sorry to hear that, Becky. It sounds like you're doing everything you can. I hope you can find a competent herp vet. I guess the fact that she is not refusing food outright can be seen as a positive thing. Before I gave up all hope, I would try a different batch of f/t, or maybe the tiniest, newest, newborn live pink I could find. I've heard people say that they had fewer regurges on live than f/t. I sure hope you can turn her around somehow. Keep us posted.

BeckyG
04-23-2006, 07:45 PM
Thanks Dean.

She eats eagerly when I feed her, so I take some hope from that. She just can't keep what she eats down. She also partially digests what she eats, so maybe she's getting a little nutrition from it, as well. I'll see what the vet has to say tomorrow. One of them has an iguana and some spiny tail lizards, so I'm hoping he'll be in when I go. I figure he'll know more than the ones who are scared of snakes. I'll also try to see if I can find a live pink for her. I know the PetCo won't have them, but maybe the mom and pop pet store over in Oxford will.


I see Onyx is out and about, so I'm going to go cuddle with him for a while. Maybe that'll make me feel better.

cornsnakefan999
04-23-2006, 09:39 PM
well, not sure if this is true or not but my pet store says not to feed 2 mice at the same time? well you could try just one and see if he/she still regurges.

BeckyG
04-23-2006, 10:07 PM
Thank you Cornsnakefan99, but I already did that. After the first regurge, I cut back to a single pinky and she still regurged. Then I cut back to a pinky head and she even regurged that. But I appreciate you trying to help.

BTW, it is ok to feed two mice on a temporary basis when transitioning to the next size up, which is what I was trying to do. But I wouldn't do it all the time.

She still seems active and alert, and even now is out cruising her viv. She just can't hold her meals down. :shrugs:

Could internal parasites be causing this?

MegF.
04-23-2006, 10:13 PM
It could, but if you're feeding f/t, it's not likely. She could have picked up a bacterial infection from her water. I'd make sure you change it daily right now. You might try putting some Grapefruit seed extract in the water too, and use the Nutribac when feeding the mouse. Check out this link and see if there is a reptile vet near you who can give you more assistance. www.anapsid.org/vets/#vetlist It lists all registered reptile vets by state. Good luck to you. Sounds like you're doing everything right. The only thing I would do, is check one more time to make sure that your warm side is not too warm or cool.

TripleMoonsExotic
04-23-2006, 11:43 PM
well, not sure if this is true or not but my pet store says not to feed 2 mice at the same time?


I've fed up to three adult mice to my adult cornsankes without a single regurge issue.

So I'm sure it couldn't be from that if you've attempted single and heads. My heart goes out to you, Becky. Good luck!

recycling goddess
04-24-2006, 01:27 AM
becky,

i'm having a similar problem with my bloodred too. when i was at the breeders on friday picking up a new hog island boa he told me that bloodreds often have problems with regurge. as a matter of fact when i said to him that my corn had regurged and i was concerned (i was asking him for a live pinkie from his stock) he immediately said, "is it a bloodred?"

i know that doesn't make it better... but perhaps it is something within them...

BeckyG
04-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Well, we are back from the vet. He said she was still very healthy looking, very active, and still has good muscle tone. He didn't think it was a bacterial infection, and he checked her mouth for stomatitis and didn't find any. He questioned me thoroughly about her temps and hides and if I held her after feeding her, which gave me a bit more confidence that he might know what he is doing. He said there are some parasites that could cause regurges, so he gave her a dose of Ivermectin. I had to hold her while he gave her that because none of the vet assistants would come into the room. I said, "What are you going to do if I have to bring one of my grown ones in?", and they replied, "we're going to stand at the door and watch!"

He gave me another liquid medicine that is supposed to strengthen her digestive system and help her not to vomit. I'm supposed to inject it under the skin of her pinkies before feeding her, and hopefully she will absorb enough to do her some good.

He also put in a call to the herpetologist at the veterinary college in Jackson, but got his voice mail. He asked him to call back, and will discuss this case with him. The vet said if they come up with anything different, he'd call me and let me know.

Maybe we'll get this under control. Thanks for the help everyone.

BTW, Meg, I've been looking for grapefruit seed extract all over town since she started regurging, and haven't found any. The closest thing we have to a health food store is a GNC, and they don't have it. I'll look online next.

I have been changing her water daily, and adding Nutribac to it since she started regurging, and the warm side temps are 82-83.

Roy Munson
04-24-2006, 07:48 PM
Well, we are back from the vet. He said she was still very healthy looking, very active, and still has good muscle tone...
That's good news. The vet sounds like he knows his stuff, and it's great that he's seeking answers from other qualified people too. His assessment must be reassuring to you as well. I imagine that in your situation, I would always be wondering if my own assessment was clouded by wishful thinking. Nice to have an objective professional opinion. Keep us posted. :)

Joni Garcia
04-24-2006, 09:04 PM
Sorry to hear about your bloodred having regurge problems. Sounds like good news from the vet, though.

As far as the Grapefruit Seed Extract goes... I had lots of trouble finding it too. I know you mentioned looking online if you can't find some. I searched online and found different brands etc. I finally ordered it through Ebay and purchased the NutriBiotic brand.

I checked and the seller I got mine from doesn't have any for sale right now (she was great... new, unopened bottles with Lot Exp date of 03/11). So if you can't find any, you might want to try Ebay. Good luck with your little one and keep us updated.

BeckyG
04-24-2006, 10:16 PM
Thank you Dean. I do feel a bit better having an objective opinion. I tend to go from wishful thinking to giving up hope. I was also impressed that he consulted another vet.

Joni, thanks for the well wishes, and the advice. I'll be sure and check e-bay for the GSE, too.

:-offtopic

P.S. Dean, Onyx shed today. I measured him using Serp's program and he measured 38.5 inches. I tried to get a good head shot, but he wouldn't be still. I think I'm going to have to enlist the rugrat's help with that.

MegF.
04-24-2006, 11:25 PM
You are right in that I got it from a health food store. We have several around me. I found this online and it's the same stuff I got from my health food store.
www.nutriteam.com/Grapefruit_Seed_Extract_Nutribiotic_GSE-p-1-c-264.html Hope the link helps. You'll want the liquid extract. I used 3 drops per 8 oz. of water.

dionythicus
04-25-2006, 01:09 AM
I'm glad you got the grapefruit seed extract. I was going to offer to send you some from our local natural foods store. Keep us posted!

BeckyG
04-25-2006, 05:56 PM
Thank you for the link Meg. I googled it, but didn't find it anywhere else for as low a price. I'll be ordering some posthaste.

dionythicus, I really appreciate your offer as well.

Some good news is that Scarlett pooed last night. It wasn't much of a poo, mostly urates, but a poo nonetheless. At lease her digestive system is still working--once the food gets past her stomach, that is. She was cruising her viv last night, too because her little water bowl was moved.

Now all there is to do is take a deep breath and wait patiently until time to feed her again, a week from tomorrow. And hope the other medicine works.

BeckyG
04-29-2006, 09:42 PM
Scarlett regurged her fourth feeding. It was another head, injected with the anti-vomiting medicine the vet gave me. I guess it takes a few doses to take effect. About half the head was digested, so maybe she got a little strength from it. She doesn't really look like she's losing weight yet, but she seems less active than before. I'll continue with the GSE in her water, and wait 8-10 days and try again.

Here's a picture:

MegF.
04-29-2006, 10:34 PM
Sorry to hear about the regurge. I guess all you can do is keep trying.

BeckyG
04-30-2006, 08:47 AM
Thanks Meg. I will keep trying.

Edited to add:

I just checked her and she left a relatively good sized poop, considering all she digested was half a pinky head. At least she is getting some nutrition out of what she is eating. I'm hoping she absorbed some of that medicine as well. It is supposed to strengthen the muscles of the digestive system as well as prevent nausea and vomiting.

Bloodreds have been my dream morph ever since I discovered their existence. I don't want to give up just yet.

Roy Munson
04-30-2006, 09:19 AM
I just checked her and she left a relatively good sized poop, considering all she digested was half a pinky head. At least she is getting some nutrition out of what she is eating. I'm hoping she absorbed some of that medicine as well. It is supposed to strengthen the muscles of the digestive system as well as prevent nausea and vomiting.

Bloodreds have been my dream morph ever since I discovered their existence. I don't want to give up just yet.
These mixed results (some digestion/persistent regurge) must be causing you quite a bit of stress. I'm really pulling for this girl. I'm no expert in this, but I have to wonder if there comes a point where 8-10 days is too long to wait to attempt another meal. Yeah, on one hand you have to worry about whether the digestive juices have been given enough time to recover, but on the other hand, the weakening effects of malnutrition have to be weighed too. I don't have an answer to this, but it's something I've thought about in cases like this one. I guess in your case, I'd probably wait the full amount of time, in hopes that the medicine and GSE do their thing. But if the next feeding attempt results in a regurge, I'd have to seriously think about approaching this differently. Scarlett's just lucky to have such a dedicated keeper.

:-offtopic I like the new Onyx avatar. I hope you post photos of that handsome boy soon...

BeckyG
04-30-2006, 01:28 PM
You're absolutely right, Dean. The mixed results are causing me to both pull my hair out, and have hope.

And I believe you are right about doing things differently. I debated this point with myself for a long time, and finally decided to go ahead and feed her even though it hadn't been the full 10 days. My reasoning was that the medicine won't do her any good if it isn't inside her.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things will turn out for the best.

:-offtopic I'll post some pictures of Onyx soon. Things with Scarlett have sort of thrown everything a bit off kilter.

I really appreciate everyone's support, and I'll keep you updated.

SunnyCorn
04-30-2006, 02:33 PM
Try cutting the pinkies back, I heard that, that helps with the digestion. :D But it sounds like your doing everything you can do. I'm sure things will turn out in your favor. I'll cross my fingers for the best.

Good luck!

Jessica

BeckyG
04-30-2006, 09:47 PM
Thanks for the idea, Jessica, but I already cut pinkies when feeding hatchlings. I appreciate your help, and crossed fingers, though.

:-offtopic (Is it OK if I hijack my own thread?) I have another poem for you that I wrote last summer when my puppy died of parvo. He was dumped in a ditch down the road from me, and decided to keep him. I had just gotten his first shots when he died. He was likely already sick before I even found him. I only had him a short time. This poem came to me in the night.

That is the way I do it. I don't write poetry, I write down the poetry that whispers itself to me in the night.


Heartbreak

Unexpectedly you came into my life.
You brought me joy, you brought me light.
Then suddenly you were gone again
And I’m left with the darkness of my grief in the night.

They say things happen for a reason
Yet all I can do is ask why?
Why am I left alone with
These empty arms, this ache inside?

There are no answers to my questions.
There are no reasons I can see.
At night hot tears fall to my pillow.
There is no comfort yet for me.

(August 7, 2005)

MegF.
04-30-2006, 09:53 PM
That's so sad Becky!! I hope you don't have to do that for Scarlett. I'm going to keep thinking good thoughts and send good healing energy to you!

SunnyCorn
04-30-2006, 10:35 PM
Awwww that is so sad!:crying: I will too! I will send my happy wishes to you! And here is a poem for you. :D

Please stop your plea and cry,
My wishes go to you through the sky,
No more crying,
No more dying,
No more weeping,
No more sad sleeping,
Just look to the sky
To the stars way up high,
And there you will find,
Something very kind.

Short but true.:D

kathylove
04-30-2006, 11:09 PM
4 regurges are A LOT. I normally would be really guarded about the prognosis after that many, but the fact that she is still healthy, strong, and in good weight gives hope yet for a recovery. Also, the fact that she did very well until the feeding of 2 pinks is a good sign too.

Since you already have tried just pinkie heads without success, I would go to a few liquid feedings via syringe, along with Nutri Bac. I would use cooked egg yolk (no sense in adding more Salmonella than she already has!), meat baby food, or a cat food pate', or some mixture of those. Strain them through a tea strainer to make sure they will go through the tube, adding a little water to make it go through a little easier. If she is hatchling sized, I would give 1 cc of the mixture (with a pinch of NB mixed in). More if she is bigger. Sit down and put her tail between your knees, holding her upright in a vertical position, and keep her vertical for a minute or two after the feed so it doesn't come back up. Have a friend help if you need it. Repeat every 4 days or so. The liquid should be very easy to digest. If she can't digest even that, then she has some serious problems and the vet may need to do some cultures. If she digests it ok, then keep it up for at least 2 or 3 weeks (with a good pinch of NB each time) before trying another pinkie head. That should give her some strength and maybe get her digestive tract back in balance a little.

If you can't find a feeding tube online, maybe the vet can help. If you are nervous about tube feeding, maybe the vet can demonstrate, if he feels it is a good idea. As long as you avoid the opening in the bottom of the mouth (where the snake breathes), and keep it vertical for a minute or two, it should be pretty safe. What you are doing isn't working, so unless the vet has a different treatment, you are likely to lose the snake if you continue on the same treatment plan.

BTW, I have never found bloodreds to be particularly susceptible to regurges, although each family line may be different.

Hope it helps - let us know what happens. Good luck!

BeckyG
05-01-2006, 07:26 AM
Thank you Kathy. I had actually thought about going to something like this--pureed pinky feed through a pinky pump or something. I, too, thought liquid food might be easier to digest. I'll try your suggetions, too. I have to go out to the vet this afternoon, so I'll ask him for a feeding tube. I helped him give her the wormer, so I think my son and I might be able to feed her.

She is 8 months old, but I still would consider her hatchling sized. She is only 17 inches long and not much bigger around than a pencil.

Serpwidgets
05-01-2006, 01:46 PM
The one thing that hasn't been tried yet is switching food sources. Someone asked if these pinkies are all from the same bag. If so, this could be the problem. A couple years ago we had 20-30 of our adults regurge the same meal. It wasn't a coincidence. ;)

I know others have mentioned having a mass regurge from individuals who have all eaten pinks from the same package. Sometimes you just get a bad batch. Until this problem is solved, I would definitely NOT feed that snake any more food from that batch, and if switching sources makes it go away, I would throw out that whole batch...

Another option for tube feeding is powdered eggs. I've been doing this with some of my non-feeders this year out of curiosity to see how they do, and they do grow instead of just withering away. Just add enough water to make it liquid enough to get it into the syringe... it's then thicker and seems to stay down a bit easier compared to fresh eggs. :)

diamondlil
05-01-2006, 04:54 PM
Hope this helps, I puree whole adult mice, after chopping them as fine as I can. Then freeze roughly 5ml in each section of icecube trays. I defrost one when Lil is due feeding and chop it further as it defrosts to improve the texture more, then syringe into her after warming the syringefull to about bloodheat. It seems to be working for Lil, she is growing well, even if she still shows no sign of independent feeding. I find giving her about 2mls, waiting for it to travel down to her stomach, then 2 more and so on works best for us. I also add a sprinkle of calcium and vits to the whole mouse, less than half a little fingernail is the nearest measurement I can think of, as I don't want to overdose her but felt it may help.
I tried the above method with day-old chick, but they have yolk in their stomach and it really was far more disgusting, so back to mouse.
And yes my kids think I'm mental.

kathylove
05-01-2006, 04:58 PM
I too have used the powdered eggs a couple of times. They were a little difficult to find locally. The only place that had them was a camping supply store, not the health food store (they had only powdered egg whites). Or you can buy it online, of course.

Cflaguy
05-01-2006, 05:16 PM
I agree with you and Serp. Try a different source first.
George Van Horn uses nothing but chicken baby food for his venom production Coral Snakes and other small venomous snakes. And they are healthy and happy; or as happy as a hot snake can be. He says it easy to digest and provides plenty of vitamins and minerals.
What color are the stools? How much of each matter is there?

BeckyG
05-01-2006, 06:08 PM
I don't think it is the pinkies themselves. She was eating from this batch before she started regurging, and my other baby about the same age is also eating from this batch and hasn't regurged a lick.

BUT I got some baby food chicken today, and that is what I'll be feeding her for a while. I just need to get some feeding tubes now. The vet wasn't in when I went by there, but I found some on Bean Farm (http://www.beanfarm.com) and will be ordering them today. I don't know where I could find powdered eggs--used to get them from WIC, but my son is too old for that now.

Diamondlil, thank's for the tip. I will try that. Scarlett still eats eagerly, she just can't keep it down.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. Scarlett is peeking out at me from her hide. I've got to go change her water now...

Cflaguy
05-02-2006, 05:23 PM
And I would probably quarantine her. Check the stools for worms. If your vet can, get him a sample of the stool and see if he can have it analyzed. Take advantage of all the Nutirbac and other remedies you can.
One old time remedy I (from some old, old snakemen) use to do (usually someone comes along and chastises me for these but I'll tell ya anyway), at the first sign of a problem I would immediately remove the water bowls two days prior to feeding. Mix up a solution of 1 gallon water/tablespoon of bleach. Put the water bowl back in just after the feeding and leave overnight, replace with fresh water. Don't be surprised if that feeding is also a regurge. This remedy had moderate success I'll admit. I saved a few, lost a few.
And BTW, my bloodred is an eating machine.

BeckyG
05-02-2006, 11:04 PM
She is already quarantined, and has been since the day I got her, about 6 weeks ago. She is in a room by herself, and I always wash my hands after handling any of my snakes. I see nothing amiss with her stools, except for being rather small, and she'd already been wormed prior to her fourth regurge. And thanks for the tip about depriving her of water then giving her bleach water, but I think it would be too late to try something like that. The first sign of a problem was a month ago--April 2nd was the date of her first regurge. I don't think she'd survive a fifth regurge, and don't want to risk it.

Oh and Scarlett is an eating machine, too. She eagerly scarfs everything I offer, she just can't hold it down.

recycling goddess
05-03-2006, 01:50 PM
i'm so sorry to read this becky :( i have no advice... just love and hugs to send your way!

(((hugs)))

BeckyG
05-03-2006, 05:08 PM
Thank you, RG. I'll keep you updated. Right now I'm still waiting for the feeding tubes to arrive. But last night, she was out and about as usual, cruising her little viv.

recycling goddess
05-03-2006, 05:34 PM
i don't know if this is really bad advice or not... but here goes anyways...

have you thought about not feeding her for a couple of weeks... nothing at all. and then attempting to feed? perhaps if she gets nice and hungry she'll take it down (and with it injected and perhaps split to increase digestability) she'll keep it down?

off to read the pages of this entire thread again as perhaps this has already been discussed (i can't remember right now if it has)

aleesha

dionythicus
05-03-2006, 05:36 PM
I have to wonder if she has a congenital problem with her stomach, maybe it's too small or not developed well enough to handle proper digestion? It's possible that this isn't bacterial/viral. She may have a physical problem that prevents her from digesting properly. Just a thought.

recycling goddess
05-03-2006, 05:46 PM
obviously my suggestion is not a good idea since you have switched to liquid feedings... how did i not remember that? sorry,... too many things going on in my mind at once.

sorry,
aleesha

BeckyG
05-03-2006, 07:19 PM
I have to wonder if she has a congenital problem with her stomach, maybe it's too small or not developed well enough to handle proper digestion? It's possible that this isn't bacterial/viral. She may have a physical problem that prevents her from digesting properly. Just a thought.

I've wondered about this as well, and have thought that it may be something like this. Yes, she is 8 months old, and has been eating fine up until this last month, but I also know that sometimes congenital defects take a while to show up.

obviously my suggestion is not a good idea since you have switched to liquid feedings... how did i not remember that? sorry,... too many things going on in my mind at once.

sorry,
aleesha

No need to apologize. I appreciate knowing that you're pulling for us. I did try something like you suggested, in that I waited 10 days (twice) between feedings, cut the mice pretty deeply, and used Nutribac and the medicine the vet gave me. She never hesitates to eat the pinky. She just gives it back after a day.

I'm afraid if the liquid feedings don't work, I'll lose this baby. :cry:


Some folks at the vet's office made fun of me for bringing a snake in. They'd probably laugh even more if they knew this situation has reduced me to real, physical tears more than once. But I know the people here understand, and no one would laugh at me for going through all this for "just a snake."

Thanks for being here.

recycling goddess
05-03-2006, 07:35 PM
i aspire to be as good a crittermama as you are! i think the fact you've shed tears shows how much you care... and let's face it... those people at the vet's office should be alot more loving to animals if they are going to work there!!! obviously they don't understand how important it is for a snake to NOT regurge... how much it harms them. :(

that said, i am sending so many healing, healthy vibes to your little girl... let's all cross everything we can in hope that she keeps down her liquid food.

(((hugs)))

Kitty
05-03-2006, 08:41 PM
Some folks at the vet's office made fun of me for bringing a snake in. They'd probably laugh even more if they knew this situation has reduced me to real, physical tears more than once. But I know the people here understand, and no one would laugh at me for going through all this for "just a snake."


I certainly hope it wasn't any of the staff, or the vet should be getting an earful. If it was just some other insensitive boobs in the waiting room, then ... well, it's a family forum and I'm not allowed to say what I'm thinking.

Hugs and good thoughts going your way.

BeckyG
05-04-2006, 10:20 PM
I certainly hope it wasn't any of the staff, or the vet should be getting an earful. If it was just some other insensitive boobs in the waiting room, then ... well, it's a family forum and I'm not allowed to say what I'm thinking.

Hugs and good thoughts going your way.

It was both actually. One lady in the waiting room so generously :rolleyes: informed me that snakes are NOT pets. Dogs are pets. Cats are pets. But snakes are NOT. While I was waiting for the vet, I heard from the back area of the clinic things like, "A SNAKE???" followed by peals of laughter. I chose to ignore both. Good thing I went in last week, because THIS week--well, let's just say it's one of those feminine things and I likely would have ripped somebody's hair out.

Anyway. I got my feeding tubes today, and am going to try the first liquid feeding right before bed time. That way, the house will be still and quiet for the night, and after a brief flurry of preparation for work and school, all day tomorrow.

Thanks for all the good vibes. Let's hope they work.

BeckyG
05-04-2006, 11:35 PM
Ok, my son and I got the liquid feeding done about an hour ago. It was harder to hold that little squirmy critter than I expected. But once I got the feeding tube into her mouth, it went pretty smoothly.

I also took a really good look at her while I was feeding her. I'd been trying to leave her alone mostly, to reduce stress. Anyway, she may have lost a little weight, but she is no where near skin and bones yet.

Ummm, it is possible to overdose on Nutribac? I added quite a bit, and not all of it on purpose. Ok, ok, I spilled it. :rolleyes:

Keep your fingers crossed for us.

MooreSnakes
05-04-2006, 11:41 PM
One lady in the waiting room so generously :rolleyes: informed me that snakes are NOT pets. Dogs are pets. Cats are pets. But snakes are NOT.

:angry01: KILL THEM!! :devil01:
. . . just kidding :nope:

diamondlil
05-05-2006, 03:28 AM
glad the feeding went smoothly, now fingers and toes crossed she just digests it for you

SunnyCorn
05-05-2006, 10:13 AM
Ugh! Reading the rude ladies post made me really mad! :angry01: I just wanted to kill someone. If I were there, I would have said "Look lady, snakes can be pets! Why is it so wrong to YOU for having a snake for a pet?! If YOU think it's weird then please, keep your comments to yourself." then you look to everyone, "And that goes for all of you!" yeah I know that would be kinda immature, but come on! High five for you Becky for not going all crazy like I would. :D

And good luck I hope he starts to eat mice again for you. *crosses fingers*

Jessica

dionythicus
05-06-2006, 04:03 AM
Some folks at the vet's office made fun of me for bringing a snake in. They'd probably laugh even more if they knew this situation has reduced me to real, physical tears more than once. But I know the people here understand, and no one would laugh at me for going through all this for "just a snake."

Thanks for being here.


My vet sent me a sympathy card when my female died from egg binding. That's the kind of vet I wish everyone could have. They are there because they love animals as much as their clients do. I wish you the best!

BeckyG
05-06-2006, 06:15 AM
It's been 32 hours. No regurge so far...

:dancer:

Gintha
05-06-2006, 09:24 AM
Ohhh 32 hours... thats enough time to get some nutrients for sure! *cheers little snakey* Glad to see you were able to tube feed her =) *crosses fingers*

ickle_moose
05-06-2006, 09:30 AM
Hey Becky, sorry I'm late catching up with this thread. Fab news though, 32 hours, go little snakey! Digest those juices! I'm a big believer in positive vibes and thinking, you've got so many people routing for you and this snake.

Please put out of your mind the people in the vet office. They are just ignorant about snakes, it's our job (obviously not when you are stressed out like you were at the time) to educate people about our beloved slithers. It's just like when I was back in england and a woman said to me 'why would you bother travelling to China?' I told her I wanted to teach kids. Her response, 'well, they aren't even developed enough to understand are they? Whole country of child-murderers. And, you know, Chinese people all STINK.' She said it with such vehemence that I really wondered for her sanity. Unfortunately for a lot of people it seems to be 'I don't understand this therefore it is fundamentally wrong.'

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I will continue to hope for your little fighter :)

schilsound
05-06-2006, 11:13 AM
It just seems sad to me. . . the situation at your vet's office reminds me of a lot of close-minded people I seem to encounter. I work in any number of towns and states, and I am constantly surprised at the things I hear people saying- much of it from old aquaintences or coworkers.

I grit my teeth and remember not everyone has grown up like I did, and that families can form some odd opinions, personal experience can lead to bias, etc etc. Race, creed, morals and other strictures are not always accomidating of "diffference among men".



. . . but for someone whose business [or employment] depends upon taking care of someone elses' animals that sort of behavior seems shortsighted, ugly, and just plain ignorant.

I am glad to hear about the liquid feedings- maybe she'll get a chance to grow and expand past her possible congenital defect. I sure hope so because I admire the way you've been taking care of this animal; very very lucky to have an owner like you.

I only wish more people got it. GL with her. . .

Kitty
05-06-2006, 12:22 PM
... Dogs are pets. Cats are pets. But snakes are NOT. ...(quoted from some moron in the vet's office)

If you need a snappy, bitchy response: And in some parts of the world, dogs and cats are food. ... There, I feel better now. (Don't get me wrong, my cats rule the house, run my life, and I wouldn't trade them for the world.) :)

WooHoo for you and baby-snake! Between you and DiamondLil, it's a tough choice for "Mother of the Year." :)

BeckyG
05-06-2006, 04:11 PM
Kitty, good response. I wish I'd thought of that at the time!

Anyway, I'm home from work now and still no regurge. It's been about 42 hours now. And I got a POOP!

Scarlett did something really strange when she woke up this afternoon. It actually looked like she was trying to regurge. Her whole body was lifted off the bottom of the viv and undulating a bit. She opened her mouth really wide and kind of thrust her head forward. She did this twice, but nothing came out either time. After that, she began crawling about as normal and kind of rubbing her head against the sides like they do to begin a shed. She hasn't been blue that I've noticed. Now she's just chilling. Could she have been trying to regurge, or just stretching from her nap?

Any ideas?

Cflaguy
05-06-2006, 07:41 PM
My fingers are crossed.

recycling goddess
05-11-2006, 05:30 PM
so have you done another liquid feed? how'd it go?

i'm so glad to hear she's kept the first one down AND pooped!!!

Roy Munson
05-11-2006, 05:36 PM
Scarlett did something really strange when she woke up this afternoon. It actually looked like she was trying to regurge. Her whole body was lifted off the bottom of the viv and undulating a bit. She opened her mouth really wide and kind of thrust her head forward. She did this twice, but nothing came out either time. After that, she began crawling about as normal and kind of rubbing her head against the sides like they do to begin a shed. She hasn't been blue that I've noticed. Now she's just chilling. Could she have been trying to regurge, or just stretching from her nap?

Any ideas?

I've only seen a couple of regurges as they occurred, and what you described are exactly the disturbing motions that accompanied them. How's she doing?

isobel
05-13-2006, 01:28 PM
god, i have been on the edge of my seat reading this post. sounds good so far.
I hope she is doing well Becky

good luck
isobel

BeckyG
05-13-2006, 05:38 PM
She is doing well. She has kept down her last three liquid meals, and I haven't seen her doing the regurging behavior again either. She could have done it while I wasn't watching, but if so, nothing came out. She appears to be gaining some strength, too. At least she seems harder to hold when I am feeding her. :rolleyes:

I'll continue with the liquid feedings for a few more weeks, then try a pinky head. If she holds that down, I'll feed her heads for a couple more feedings, then slowly work my way back up to whole pinkies. If she regurges again, then it's back to liquid feedings for a few more weeks. And so on, and so forth...

Thanks everyone for the support you have given me during this. I have hope now that she will make it.

recycling goddess
05-13-2006, 10:34 PM
this is such GREAT news becky... i'm soooooooooo pleased to hear this! keep up the great snakemama work!

Cflaguy
05-14-2006, 09:09 AM
Glad to hear it. Continued good luck.

isobel
05-14-2006, 11:10 AM
Glad to hear that Becky. Thats fantastic news :)

isobel

BeckyG
06-04-2006, 09:26 PM
After a month of liquid feedings, I gave Scarlett her first solid meal tonight. It was just a pinky head rolled in Nutribac. Wish us luck that she keeps it down.

Cflaguy
06-04-2006, 10:21 PM
Good luck!

JoannaD
06-04-2006, 10:39 PM
Good Luck!

Jo

recycling goddess
06-05-2006, 01:46 AM
fingers toes and anything else i can... crossed for you two!

diamondlil
06-05-2006, 03:24 AM
excellent news, go Scarlett :cheers:

Roy Munson
06-05-2006, 08:40 AM
After a month of liquid feedings, I gave Scarlett her first solid meal tonight. It was just a pinky head rolled in Nutribac. Wish us luck that she keeps it down.Good luck to both of you. I think she's about to turn the corner and head in the right direction. :)

recycling goddess
06-05-2006, 01:28 PM
so? give us an update? is it still down???

BeckyG
06-05-2006, 06:04 PM
21 hours and still down....

Thanks for all the well wishes and good thoughts. I'm really hoping she will turn the corner. I'll keep updating as the evening wears on.

recycling goddess
06-05-2006, 06:21 PM
oh that is SOOOOOO good to hear! is this the longest she's kep something down since this began?

BeckyG
06-05-2006, 08:59 PM
The longest previously had been 23 1/2 hours. We are now at 24 and holding. However, I won't completely relax until it comes out her other end! (Why isn't there a pooping icon?)

recycling goddess
06-05-2006, 09:57 PM
come on... we want it to come out this way!!! http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/obscene/eck14.gif

BeckyG
06-05-2006, 11:00 PM
26 hours and holding....

Going to bed now. I'll post when I have poop...

recycling goddess
06-05-2006, 11:51 PM
becky,

as much as i really want to know when YOU poop... i'll pass on getting that info. i'd much rather know when scarlett poops LOL

hahahahaha
sweet dreams
aleesha

BeckyG
06-06-2006, 07:21 AM
Aw now, and I so wanted to share my personal bowel habits with the forum.... :rolleyes:

36 hours now, and I think she's going to make it.

Cflaguy
06-06-2006, 07:38 AM
hope she has made it over the hump!

recycling goddess
06-06-2006, 01:02 PM
oh ya baby.... this is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down keep it down *chanting fades off in the distance*

Roy Munson
06-06-2006, 01:28 PM
36 hours now, and I think she's going to make it.
That's excellent, Becky! :cheers: Not quite out of the woods, but the trees are thinning out. :)

BeckyG
06-06-2006, 04:45 PM
44 hours. Still no poop, but no regurge either. :dancer:

BeckyG
06-08-2006, 07:29 AM
Poop! We've got poop! This morning Scarlett presented me with a nice big smelly--ok, well not so smelly-- poop. And not really so big, either, but proportionate to the size meal she ate.

I'm going to feed her again Saturday. I'll give her another head, and if she digests that, the next time I'll move up to half a pinky. I'll very slowly work her back up to full sized meals. I don't want to take any chances.

MegF.
06-08-2006, 08:20 AM
Awesome news Becky! Good luck on your next feeding. I don't want to get too excited yet as I know you've had a few setbacks and I don't want to jinx anything!

Roy Munson
06-08-2006, 08:47 AM
Very good news, Becky. Scarlett is one lucky snake. I don't know if I would have had your patience, and I'll bet that holds true for a majority of keepers. My fingers are crossed that this really is the dawn of an era of gluttony for her. :cheers:

diamondlil
06-08-2006, 09:42 AM
:licklips: Good girl, Scarlett!

JoannaD
06-08-2006, 10:01 AM
Ah the lives of parents - obsessed with what goes in and what comes out!

Congrats.



Jo

BeckyG
06-08-2006, 05:02 PM
Thanks everyone. I'll be sure and post updates as we continue this journey back to health.

bribrian
06-08-2006, 05:11 PM
Very good news, big thumbs up........... :)

Kitty
06-08-2006, 07:03 PM
Yay-poopy-snake!

Congrats on the success and good luck on the next feed! :wavey:

BeckyG
06-11-2006, 08:51 PM
Scarlett has now held down her second solid feeding for 25 hours. I think we may be out of the woods as long as I don't try to increase her meal size too fast.

Patience is the key here...I keep reminding myself.

Very good news, Becky. Scarlett is one lucky snake. I don't know if I would have had your patience, and I'll bet that holds true for a majority of keepers. My fingers are crossed that this really is the dawn of an era of gluttony for her.

Thank you Dean. Scarlett is more than lucky. She is very special to me. I know it sounds wierd, but I love this snake. I just couldn't give up on her.

Cflaguy
06-14-2006, 08:45 AM
I hope she never needs baby food again!

recycling goddess
06-14-2006, 01:08 PM
oh that is such great news!!! valentino had another regurge... so i'm waiting till next week to feed him again... hopefully this will be the last one.

recycling goddess
06-14-2006, 01:10 PM
oh and just so you know becky... i think i increased too quickly with valentino... (don't be me!)

BeckyG
06-14-2006, 05:11 PM
Oh I am sorry to hear that. Yes, I plan on taking it very slowly with Scarlett. Next few feedings will be just the head and shoulders, then work our way up from there. I get worried because the head seems to leave such a big lump in her. It seems a whole pinky would make her pop!

recycling goddess
06-14-2006, 05:24 PM
ahhhhhh. she sounds so tiny and thin... any pics?

BeckyG
06-15-2006, 05:49 PM
None since she started regurging. I don't want to stress her any more than necessary. Here's an old one, though:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/Snakes/bloodred3.jpg

recycling goddess
06-15-2006, 10:23 PM
she looks like a nice size... small, but nice size. is she smaller than this now or has she retained her weight?

BeckyG
06-15-2006, 11:11 PM
When I got home from karate tonight, she was out and about. I managed to snap a couple of pictures. They're kind of blurry because of smears on the glass, but I didn't want to take her out and stress her. She does look smaller to me, as if she's lost some weight, but considering all she's gone through, I think she looks pretty good. Hopefully, I'll get some weight back on her.

She is still very active, though, and that is encouraging.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/Snakes/Scarlett4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/Snakes/Scarlett3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/Snakes/Scarlett.jpg

recycling goddess
06-15-2006, 11:16 PM
oh she looks soooo good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i figure if they are moving around... they are doing well. lethargic, dehydrated critters is what makes me nervous!

recycling goddess
08-12-2006, 03:19 AM
becky,

how's she doing?

diamondlil
08-12-2006, 04:03 AM
Nice to see her looking so good!

recycling goddess
08-12-2006, 12:56 PM
(those are photos from 2 months ago... i bumped this thread up to find out how she's doing :)

BeckyG
08-12-2006, 05:12 PM
She had a partial regurge again last week, just some feet and a little bit of skin. However, she is more active than ever and has even grown an inch. I'm going to feed her again today, and we'll see.

Nagini_snow
08-12-2006, 07:36 PM
She had a partial regurge again last week, just some feet and a little bit of skin. However, she is more active than ever and has even grown an inch. I'm going to feed her again today, and we'll see.


awww not again poor snakeyand guess its time to cut back again and see how she dose

crosses fingers
(hope this treply is not to late but i bumped it upto see how shes doing)

BeckyG
08-12-2006, 08:58 PM
She ate fine. I fed her half a pinky dusted with Nutribac. Now the waiting game begins.

recycling goddess
08-13-2006, 01:26 AM
ah becky that so sucks... i hope she keeps this down!

sending healing vibes to her.

valentino hasn't had another regurge... but i haven't given him larger than a small pink since his last time... mostly out of fear of it starting up again. so once he's been eating fine for a few more months... i'll increase his food.

BeckyG
08-13-2006, 01:44 PM
ah becky that so sucks... i hope she keeps this down!

sending healing vibes to her.

valentino hasn't had another regurge... but i haven't given him larger than a small pink since his last time... mostly out of fear of it starting up again. so once he's been eating fine for a few more months... i'll increase his food.


That's what I've been doing, too. I always pick out the smallest pinky I have to feed to her. It's discouraging, but I don't want to give up on this baby. I've thought about euthanizing her, but she is so active and alert, and healthy in every other way, that I just can't bring myself to make that decision just yet. I'll just keep doing what I can for her, and if it ever appears that she is suffering, I'll do what needs to be done when the time comes.

recycling goddess
08-13-2006, 01:49 PM
you know what i think? i think one day she'll just start to eat fine and no more regurges. it'll be a thing of the past.

i could be wrong... but i feel like she's going to outgrow this.

please keep me posted... cause i think about your both soooo often!!!

Hypancistrus
08-13-2006, 01:54 PM
Do you ever think that at a point it just become a mental habit?? I read this whole thread, and it seems like at the point where she was "going through the motions" of regurging the liquid that it had become a mental thing for her... like a compulsive disorder.

I always wonder about these kind of things, because we had a dog that scratched all of his hair out (save a strip on his back he couldn't reach) and when tested was allergic to NOTHING. He passed away last summer, but I always wonder if he had more of a mental problem than a physical problem.

I mean... if it can happen to a human, why not other animals??

BeckyG
08-14-2006, 06:21 PM
It's been 48 hours now and no regurge. I really think that eventually we will get over this. I'm wondering, though if it would be beneficial to give her a calcium supplement. I know it won't stop her regurges, but since she's having to stay on pinkies so long, she's not getting the more developed bones of fuzzies. The amel hatchling I got at the same time moved up to fuzzies weeks ago, and is now almost 10 inches longer than Scarlett. They were about the same size when I got them. Any thoughts on this?


Hmmm, interesting idea Hypancistrus, but I don't think snakes' mental is that well developed. If it were a mental thing, I think she would have kept doing it, kind of like an anorexic who has vomited so much that she can't hold her food down when she wants to. That is the only time Scarlett ever did that.

Cegninedorf
08-15-2006, 12:13 AM
I apologize that my response might be considered off the topic, but it is in response to what I've been reading...

Wow...I've read this entire thread in one sitting and I eagerly await the next post, to know that all is well & is getting better. I'm amazed at how well you, Becky G, have seemed to keep yourself together throughout all of this; then again, I'm sitting on the other side of a computer screen, not witnessing the emotional drain in the works. I can empathize with you, though, as my cat Strasti (pictured, when he was a wee bit cranky) has been dealing with feline diabetes which took a turn for the worse a few weeks ago when he had a grand mal seizure (and his 4th seizure ever) -- he literally had no glucose showing up in his blood & he gave me nary a sign of going hypoglycemic (yes, he's been on insulin since March). It was a torturous waiting game -- except, he had *a lot* of drs working on him for 3.5 days, and then it was up to me to get him eating again/stop vomiting, fight off his urinary infection & then maintain his glucose -- as he was off insulin. I didn't sleep for a week, home-testing him at all hours & trying to get him to lap baby food from my hand. Now, 3 weeks later, Strasti *seems* to be maintaining a healthy blood glucose on his own...but, we'll see.

Like you, I did think of euthanizing him...it just wasn't right to see him suffer like that, and the physical toll on him was insane. I really had to think about quality of life -- for him & for me. But, I also thought -- like you -- that there was just too much life, too much of a spark left in him that I just couldn't give up on him yet. He truly is my most expensive "possession" (if you can call a pet that), what with all we've gone through in addition to the diabetes in his almost 6 years, but he really is a trouper, also not unlike your Scarlett.

I admire you for all of your efforts and optimism (though you may not feel like it's been there, it has...or Scarlett would not be thriving as well as she is!); it's so incredibly heartbreaking to deal with a sick animal, especially a beloved pet. I wish for all of the best to happen for Scarlett & for you. (You deserve some kind of pampering now! :) )

BeckyG
08-15-2006, 08:23 PM
Cegninedorf, thank you for your kind words. I do understand what you are going through with your cat. I had a diabetic dog, and he had to have insulin shots twice a day. He did have a grand mal seizure once, and let me tell you, they are scary. The hardest part was keeping his glucose regulated. If he didn't want to eat, I couldn't give him his insulin, which made him feel bad and so he didn't want to eat, so I couldn't give him his insulin...and so on. You can't explain to an animal that he has to eat. Dakota eventually developed cataracts and went blind. He died last year. Like you, I debated about euthanizing him, or having him adopted by someone who was more financially able to care for him. He got everything he needed, but it sure put a strain on my budget. If I had it to do all over again, I don't think I would have done anything different.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/dakota.jpg

Cegninedorf
08-15-2006, 09:53 PM
Dakota was adorable...I love fuzzy ears & soft, wet noses. :) All animals -- us included! -- can be certainly stubborn when we want our own way, can't we? I'm sure that you have plenty of beautiful memories, though. :) While Strasti was in his coma, I actually prayed that he wouldn't wake up, so that the pain would end for him...but, we visited the vet today & it's now 24 days & counting with *no* insulin, and Strasti seems to be holding his own with his BG...now, time to lose a little weight & perhaps we'll be in the clear...:)

And how is Miss Scarlett doing? I hope that she is in the clear, as well! :)

Cegninedorf
08-23-2006, 02:23 PM
How is Scarlett doing? Happy & healthy, I'm hoping! :)

BeckyG
08-23-2006, 06:13 PM
It's been 5 days since her last feeding. Two poops and NO urf! Gonna feed her again tomorrow and hold my breath. Thank you for asking.

recycling goddess
08-23-2006, 07:38 PM
oh that's such good news!

BeckyG
08-27-2006, 11:29 AM
Just an update. I fed her a whole pinky on Thursday. It is now Sunday morning. No regurge yet, but no poop yet either. The last two regurges have occurred 3-4 days after feeding, so we're not out of the woods yet. I'll let you know...

recycling goddess
08-27-2006, 11:30 AM
fingers, toes and all other crossable parts.... crossed!

Requiem
08-27-2006, 12:35 PM
Bless your heart for being so strong. I think the stress would have gotten to me by now already.

Definitely keep us posted. I just read through the entire thread in one sitting. I, too, have a blood named Sanguine. She's a fiesty little girl and quite the pig. I can't even imagine myself in your situation... major kudos to you for kicking this much butt. I think you definitely need to feel good about everything you've done for this little snake... it takes a lot of dedication and love to get as far as you and Scarlet have.

BeckyG
08-27-2006, 07:36 PM
Here is the latest picture of her. As you can see, she is just toooooo gorgeous to give up on!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/Photos%20for%20Blog/Scarlett.jpg

Update: Got a good sized poop this evening, and still no regurge so far! Yay!

Cegninedorf
08-27-2006, 10:32 PM
Gorgeous! :)

Way to go, Becky & Scarlett! Many congrats! :)

Mrs InsaneOne
08-28-2006, 01:44 AM
Glad to hear she's doing better! I know how frustraiting it can be when the little ones start gurging!


Jenn

recycling goddess
10-28-2006, 09:31 PM
hey becky... how's your little one doing? here's an update of valentino for ya :)

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42313

BeckyG
10-29-2006, 10:10 AM
She is doing well, considering all she's been through. She did have another regurge about a month ago, but that one was my fault. We moved into a new house and I put her in my bedroom instead of the snake room. I thought it would be less stressful there because of the lower traffic. What I didn't realize, though, was how cold my bedroom would get at night. After she regurged her first meal in the new house, I moved her into the snake room, which has supplemental heating, and she is doing better. She is still growing, though slowly. She is up to 19" long, and is in shed right now. I'd take pics of her, but I don't want to disturb her. When she is done shedding, I'll try to get some new pics.

Actually, I did post some pics of her tummy (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41647&highlight=Scarlett) in the Photo Gallery a few weeks ago.

recycling goddess
10-29-2006, 11:57 AM
i'm so glad she's doing better. i think of her whenever i deal with valentino... which is often! ;)

BeckyG
01-18-2007, 05:57 PM
I think it's safe enough to post this now. I know it's been a long time, but I've been taking things very slowly for Scarlett, keeping her on pinkies far longer than I normally would have. I didn't want to risk getting her started regurging again. As of today, she hasn't regurged since September. That's the longest she's gone since I got her. She has also started growing again, and shedding regularly. So I decided it was time. Three days ago, Scarlett finally moved up to fuzzies. I was a bit nervous, because it left a huge looking lump in her. But she has held it down, and has even given me a nice, big poop.

When I started this thread, long ago, I was pretty much resigned to the eventuality that she would die. Thanks to some excellent advice from Kathy Love, she has pulled through, and I think she will be ok.

Here she is with her tummy full of fuzzy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/CalKingOnyx/Snakes/scarlettfuzzy.jpg

diamondlil
01-18-2007, 06:07 PM
Becky, that's the best post of today! :cheers:

jazzgeek
01-18-2007, 06:27 PM
GREAT news, Becky! Good to see Miss Scarlett moving forward!

(Will Scarlett be learning anything 'bout birthin' some babies down the road?)

regards,
jazz

Nanci
01-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Excellent, excellent news!! I am so happy for Miss Scarlett.

Nanci

recycling goddess
01-18-2007, 06:50 PM
oh that's the BEST news! becky i'm so thrilled to read this. i have valentino on small pink fuzzies... when they just get their hair. i think he'd like more but i don't want to chance another regurge.

huge hugs to both of you!!!!

MegF.
01-18-2007, 07:25 PM
Great news Becky! Good going Scarlett!

BeckyG
01-18-2007, 10:57 PM
Thank you everyone.

About the birthin babies--when she first started going through this, I said, "No, never." In case it might be a genetic thing causing her to regurge.

But for now, let's just say, "we'll see."

diamondlil
01-19-2007, 02:26 AM
oh that's the BEST news! becky i'm so thrilled to read this. i have valentino on small pink fuzzies... when they just get their hair. i think he'd like more but i don't want to chance another regurge.

huge hugs to both of you!!!!
More excellent news!

recycling goddess
03-02-2007, 02:34 PM
okay becky... i'm needing another update... how's she doing?

recycling goddess
11-01-2009, 09:05 PM
i'd love an update becky...

Asbit
11-01-2009, 11:11 PM
She is a pretty little thing! Glad to hear she is doing better.