Scooby ate!!!

[albinoscooby]

Well scooby ate earlier. It was only a hopper, but the point is that he ate it. I bought two of them and one jumped out of my hands and ran around the room lol. I didn't find him until two hours later when my mom went in the bathroom and screamed. He didn't eat the second one after I tried again. I felt SO bad when I tried to kill it. I bounced it up and down a bunch of times in a plastic case, then I hit it against the wall, then I threw it against the wall a few times. It just wouldn't die!!! Finally I threw it pretty hard, and it died. Then I threw it to another bag, and put it in the freezer. I could have just let that hopper grow up then feed him to him in 10 days huh? I didn't think of that =/.

[Arun]

Well scooby ate earlier. It was only a hopper, but the point is that he ate it. I bought two of them and one jumped out of my hands and ran around the room lol. I didn't find him until two hours later when my mom went in the bathroom and screamed. He didn't eat the second one after I tried again. I felt SO bad when I tried to kill it. I bounced it up and down a bunch of times in a plastic case, then I hit it against the wall, then I threw it against the wall a few times. It just wouldn't die!!! Finally I threw it pretty hard, and it died. Then I threw it to another bag, and put it in the freezer. I could have just let that hopper grow up then feed him to him in 10 days huh? I didn't think of that =/.


hmmmm not to be rude or anything...but i think you should go see a doctor about that little episode you had with the mouse....

am i wrong to say couldnt this guy of just froze the mouse alive? seems a little bit better than what this guy did anyway....

[albinoscooby]

shut up asshole. **** you. I didn't intentionally do it. I thought the first time would kill it. so I didn't want him to suffer. Thats why I tried to end his life quicker. I didn't want to do it in the first place. I won't do that again. I'm sticking with feeding him live. Its much easier that way. Plus he is used to that...

[Arun]

shut up asshole. **** you. I didn't intentionally do it. I thought the first time would kill it. so I didn't want him to suffer. Thats why I tried to end his life quicker. I didn't want to do it in the first place. I won't do that again. I'm sticking with feeding him live. Its much easier that way. Plus he is used to that...

i apologize...you just never know with some people out there.

[isobel]

i don't think there was any need for the abuse albino!!!
I was also a bit concerned about how you tried to end its life, if that wasn't intentional then i don't know what is!!!!

isobel

[diamondlil]

shut up asshole. **** you.
way to make new friends.................there are threads explaining the quickest and most humane way of killing feeders, posting about an animal sufferig even unintentionally is always going to get a concerned response.
You don't have to curse to get your point across, it's not big or clever and not encouraged here.

[albinoscooby]

Yeah I'm sorry guys. Its just that sucks for the mouse. I can't do that anymore. Thats messed up. Even if it is quick, I don't want to do it anymore. I'll stick to live for both of mine. When I get the second one that is... Diamond, you have any suggestions for a pretty girl that I can mix with my amel later on?

[diamondlil]

There's a genetics predictor you can use, but his colours are so deep, I'd probably go for something as similar as you can find, and be inclined to go for an older female because hatchlings change so much.
My snakes not old enough to breed yet, there are plenty of people on here who are successful breeders though, and their suggestions may be more relevant

[albinoscooby]

aww man I kinda wanted to get a snow too :'(. So the darkies a? I want to raise one from a baby so it can be used to me and non violent and all. Plus I kinda miss holding a small snake =p.

[BeckyG]

am i wrong to say couldnt this guy of just froze the mouse alive? seems a little bit better than what this guy did anyway....

Yes, you are wrong. Freezing mice alive is a very painful and inhumane way to kill them. It is worse than what Albinoscooby did. At least he TRIED to kill the mouse quickly and painlessly.

[CMatt2157]

Hey Becky... Are you sure freezing mice alive is inhumane, or more painful? I wouldn't know anything about it, but wouldn't it have the same effect on mice as it does on humans? Yes it is very cold, but doesn't your body begin to shutdown and you eventually lose energy, and then consciousness. Seems like an O.K. death (compared to scoobys mishap), but I don't really know. Just asking. Let me know what you think.

[Arun]

Hey Becky... Are you sure freezing mice alive is inhumane, or more painful? I wouldn't know anything about it, but wouldn't it have the same effect on mice as it does on humans? Yes it is very cold, but doesn't your body begin to shutdown and you eventually lose energy, and then consciousness. Seems like an O.K. death (compared to scoobys mishap), but I don't really know. Just asking. Let me know what you think.


thats what i was thinking...anyways how else could it be done besides freezing?

[CMatt2157]

Arun, I have heard of only a few methods besides freezing. One is the most obvious- smash the head hard enough to kill it instantly. But all I ever hear about is how the mice seem to survive after many hits (and it also gets very bloody).

Another method I heard of is sticking a pencil or some hard object on the mouse/rats neck. You then give the tail a good tug and it should severe the spinal cord. Anyone else have any methods?

[diamondlil]

There are threads on the feeder forum about humane killing, I have used the home-made vinegar/baking soda method and it was quick and easy. People with more feeders to kill use co2 canisters, just search and you will find the info

[BeckyG]

Everything I have ever heard or read suggests that it is inhumane to freeze mice alive--especially above pinky size. I know that when I am extremely cold, I am miserable. My hands, feet, ears, nose, etc. HURT. I imagine mice would feel the same way.

It could take hours to freeze a mouse to death. I wouldn't want to leave one in such pain for that long. I recently found an old thread about someone freezing some mice. He checked a few days later, and some of them were still alive. I can't remember where I saw it, but if you do a search, maybe you'll find it.

[albinoscooby]

Thanks Becky. How would you like to be frozen alive Arun? It is much less painful of a death to have it quick and clean. thats a beautiful snake btw Becky. what mix is he?

[Arun]

Thanks Becky. How would you like to be frozen alive Arun? It is much less painful of a death to have it quick and clean. thats a beautiful snake btw Becky. what mix is he?



no need to attack me...quite sad really, how people deal with situations.

did i ever once say i have froze a live mice to death? NO, its something that i suggested and also stated that i didnt know if that was the best way to do it.
so before you start makeing me like an evil person, get your stuff straight.

shoot your negetavity somewhere else.

[albinoscooby]

We weren't attacking you. We were just stating facts as you were...

[jazzgeek]

First we have....
hmmmm not to be rude or anything...but i think you should go see a doctor about that little episode you had with the mouse....And then....
no need to attack me...quite sad really, how people deal with situations.Professionals have a phrase for this: "passive-aggressive".

And since I'm dealing with quotes, I do believe I "have my stuff straight".

regards,
jazz

[CMatt2157]

I'm still not convinced that freezing mice is inhumane or painful. Personally, I would think it would be more humane as the mouse would lose consciousness. I know your going to reply with how cold you get and stuff like that, but I'm going to try and do some research. Obviously, severing the brain function is the best way, but is usually hard to do in one swift blow (And it can become bloody). I'll try and let everyone know ASAP.

[BeckyG]

thats a beautiful snake btw Becky. what mix is he?

Thank you. He is a banded California King snake.

[Arun]

First we have....
And then....
Professionals have a phrase for this: "passive-aggressive".

And since I'm dealing with quotes, I do believe I "have my stuff straight".

regards,
jazz

jazz geek that was not an attack....it was a justified statement to what he had posted in his post.

personally i think its sick for someone to think that its the best way to kill the mouse by bouncing it up and down in a plastic container, then throwing it at a wall multiple times to try to end its life....if you consider that an attack, something is wrong with this world. I also said in my opinion...SO its my opinion, and i am entitled to that statement...even if people take it too seriously.

cant have your stuff straight if your logic is flawed....even if your quoting me.

[jazzgeek]

jazz geek that was not an attack....it was a justified statement to what he had posted in his post.Justified? How so? You suggest the original poster consult a physician (presumably a psychiatrist, but hey, if you meant oncologist or some other specialty, you're welcome to enlighten us all) for using a form of euthanization that has previously been suggested in the forums in this link (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=133912&postcount=3) (by a DVM, no less). This being the case, what is your justification? By what authority do you speak?

From the searching I've done on the forums (a neat idea when "justifying" oneself, don't you think?), it appears to me that the means to dispatch feeders whose eyes are open, from "most humane" to "least humane", before presenting them to your snake are as follows:



CO2 chamber aka gassing ( no trauma, quick death )
Cervical Dislocation aka breaking their neck ( no to mild trauma depending on your skill level , quick death )
Neurological Concussion aka thumping ( high trauma, slow to quick death, depending on your skill level)
Freezing ( high trauma, slow death )
If you'd like to research this yourself, search terms such as "culling mice", "hypoxia", "euthanasia guidelines", "freezing mice", "CO2 chamber", etc., will get you quite a bit of information.
personally i think its sick for someone to think that its the best way to kill the mouse by bouncing it up and down in a plastic container, then throwing it at a wall multiple times to try to end its lifeYou're entitled to that opinion - and again, I direct you to the hyperlink I cited above. Certainly, it's not the most humane way, but it's better than your suggestion of....
am i wrong to say couldnt this guy of just froze the mouse alive? seems a little bit better than what this guy did anyway....And yet again, you can use the search function to look into the matter a bit more.
....if you consider that an attack, something is wrong with this world.I don't consider you taking a position an attack. But I consider you suggesting someone getting their head examined (give me a little latitude here, I realize you simply said "go see a doctor", but your subtext isn't too subtle...) for using a particular euthanization procedure an egregious attack.

That said and cited, I ask you....exactly who is using "flawed logic"? You or me?

I also said in my opinion...SO its my opinion, and i am entitled to that statement...even if people take it too seriously.Let's play a little game. Using your browser, and while in this thread, press "Ctrl-Home" to get to the top of the page. Then, using the "search web page" function (usually, "Ctrl-F"), enter the phrase "in my opinion". Now, what's the first "hit"?

That's right, campers! Post number 22, which would be the post that I'm responding to directly. In other words, YOU NEVER SAID "in my opinion" UNTIL YOU USED THE PHRASE IN AN ATTEMPT TO CLAIM YOU WERE STATING AN OPINION.

Forgive me, was that too harsh? Was my search phrase too specific? Try it again, but this time, just search for the word "opinion". Now, what's the first "hit"?

Ta-da! Same post, good 'ol number 22.

cant have your stuff straight if your logic is flawed....Please, next time bring something other than a butter knife to a dialectic gunfight.

even if your quoting me.And might I add, quoting you in this thread has been such fun! Thanks!

regards,
jazz

[erisan]

jazz geek that was not an attack....it was a justified statement to what he had posted in his post.

personally i think its sick for someone to think that its the best way to kill the mouse by bouncing it up and down in a plastic container, then throwing it at a wall multiple times to try to end its life....if you consider that an attack, something is wrong with this world. I also said in my opinion...SO its my opinion, and i am entitled to that statement...even if people take it too seriously.

cant have your stuff straight if your logic is flawed....even if your quoting me.

First of all albinoscooby didn't mean to make it suffer. He was indeed trying to kill it with the least amount of trauma and pain. He was just not quick nor skilled enough to kill it. Mice are tough little buggers it wasn't his fault. So stop going off on this rant about how people are taking your opinions too seriously and how scooby is sick and needs to go to a psychiatrist. If he really was a sick person he wouldn't have said he felt bad about it. Which, if you check the first post, he stated.

[erisan]

Oh yeah and your'e also the one who stated that he shouldv'e frozen it instead. Mice can live for days in a freezer while their extremities freeze and they huddle for warmth. That is a much more terrible way to die. At least when it was getting bashed around it was most likely in shock.

[Arun]

Justified? How so? You suggest the original poster consult a physician (presumably a psychiatrist, but hey, if you meant oncologist or some other specialty, you're welcome to enlighten us all) for using a form of euthanization that has previously been suggested in the forums in this link (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=133912&postcount=3) (by a DVM, no less). This being the case, what is your justification? By what authority do you speak?

From the searching I've done on the forums (a neat idea when "justifying" oneself, don't you think?), it appears to me that the means to dispatch feeders whose eyes are open, from "most humane" to "least humane", before presenting them to your snake are as follows:



CO2 chamber aka gassing ( no trauma, quick death )
Cervical Dislocation aka breaking their neck ( no to mild trauma depending on your skill level , quick death )
Neurological Concussion aka thumping ( high trauma, slow to quick death, depending on your skill level)
Freezing ( high trauma, slow death )
If you'd like to research this yourself, search terms such as "culling mice", "hypoxia", "euthanasia guidelines", "freezing mice", "CO2 chamber", etc., will get you quite a bit of information.
You're entitled to that opinion - and again, I direct you to the hyperlink I cited above. Certainly, it's not the most humane way, but it's better than your suggestion of....
And yet again, you can use the search function to look into the matter a bit more.
I don't consider you taking a position an attack. But I consider you suggesting someone getting their head examined (give me a little latitude here, I realize you simply said "go see a doctor", but your subtext isn't too subtle...) for using a particular euthanization procedure an egregious attack.

That said and cited, I ask you....exactly who is using "flawed logic"? You or me?

Let's play a little game. Using your browser, and while in this thread, press "Ctrl-Home" to get to the top of the page. Then, using the "search web page" function (usually, "Ctrl-F"), enter the phrase "in my opinion". Now, what's the first "hit"?

That's right, campers! Post number 22, which would be the post that I'm responding to directly. In other words, YOU NEVER SAID "in my opinion" UNTIL YOU USED THE PHRASE IN AN ATTEMPT TO CLAIM YOU WERE STATING AN OPINION.

Forgive me, was that too harsh? Was my search phrase too specific? Try it again, but this time, just search for the word "opinion". Now, what's the first "hit"?

Ta-da! Same post, good 'ol number 22.

Please, next time bring something other than a butter knife to a dialectic gunfight.

And might I add, quoting you in this thread has been such fun! Thanks!

regards,
jazz


you are correct jazzgeek about me not saying in my opinion...i actually said in the first post, 'not to be rude' i thought i had typed 'in my opinion'. im sorry for that.

and about freezing the mouse, i would not have done that...thats why i said 'am i wrong to suggest' or whatever, and thats because i didnt know if that would be a viable way to end a feeders life.

i am glad you had fun quoting fragments of what i typed....really great for manipulating the meaning of individual quotes... :shrugs:

BTW im new to this stuff....sometimes i can come across as being a 'know it all'...and i really DONT know it all...still trying to shake off those teen energies...cant you tell? lol

i realize now that i was a little quick to judje you albinoscooby and for this i apologize.

i was focusing on one thing about what happened and blocked out the fact that you fealt bad and the rest...with that said, it could have happened to me, and anyone.

sorry again! BTW i was going to call the humane society of alberta canada to see what they would think is the most humane way to cull mice, but since its the weekend they were closed. i'll keep you posted with what i come up with!

[albinoscooby]

dude let it go. Its fine. Don't blow into proportion. Inhumane would be to let them freeze without killing them. Humane would be uthinizing them then freezing them.

[Arun]

dude let it go. Its fine. Don't blow into proportion. Inhumane would be to let them freeze without killing them. Humane would be uthinizing them then freezing them.


didnt i?

and why do you keep thinking i would freeze a mouse?!?!?!? i said i didnt know if it was a viable way of killing the mouse..thats why i said 'am i wrong to suggest' or something along those lines...i say you get over that.

i apologized and all...guess you didnt catch that.

[isobel]

well this certainly got out of hand lol

Now we all know the correct way to kill mice we can forget about it.

I have to say that Arun DID NOT say it was humane to freeze mice, he just asked thats all.

smile everyone :) :) :)

isobel