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The best time to night drive?

JAGSnake
06-03-2006, 03:28 PM
I've done OK this past week.

4 Yellow Rat Snakes - 3 Dead Yellow Rats
5 Garter Snakes - 3 Dead Garter Snakes
3 Dead Corn Snakes

I have been trying to catch some Corns and am always a few minutes late. I've done pretty good in the past but I never researched the right time to Night Drive. I know going 45 to 30 minutes before sunset and 1 to 2 hours after sunset and is best when the temp is 80 and humid.

My question is, does the moon have anything to do with having good nights or not? I live in Jacksonville, wanted to compare note (so to speak) and find out when some of you have the best nights, what is the weather like and so on.

I'm not having bad luck as you can see and I know it is hit or miss but if I can perfect my night driving skills and know what nights, weather and all is best so I don't pass it up when that night arrives.

I also guess I am frustrated that I missed those 3 Corns and have not found any live ones but the good thing is that I found the right area to look.

saraelf69
06-03-2006, 03:35 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! your an evil person :wavey:

JAGSnake
06-03-2006, 05:44 PM
That's a hell of a thing to say to someone but I alson find myself in a quandary to the author's real meaning.

mike17l
06-03-2006, 05:47 PM
i dont live any where near corn territory, but do live in south texas, and hunt the roads whenever i get a chance. many people will say that the moon has alot to do with snake movements and i would tend to agree with them. around the new moon is long considered the best time to road cruise. many say that snakes move very little, if at all, during a full moon because the chance if being seen by a predator is increased. i have however seen data that would suggest that snakes are out during full moon. personally i belive that snakes move most every night, but prefer to be out around the new moon.
with the way gas prices are, i would (perverbially speaking) put all my eggs in one basket and only hunt on nights that seem to have the best chance of being producrive (ie. warm, humid, moonless nights)
of course take all this info with a grain of salt as i have only found one live snake this season at night (7-9 nights) and it was just a western diamondback rattlesnake.

mike17l
06-03-2006, 05:55 PM
That's a hell of a thing to say to someone but I alson find myself in a quandary to the author's real meaning.

I am going to guess by the way it was said that the poster was trying to make light of field collecting. Many people do not believe that any animal from the wild should be kept. What these people do not realize is that we would have no new blood, morphs, species, ect with out WC animals. Ever animal anybody on this board owns is a direct desendant from WC animals. There animal maybe a striped ultra lava lavander F2000 or just a normal F1, but it is a decendant from WC, and many people have yet to realize this.

Note. if anybody has a striped ultra lava lavander let me know i would be interested in one, if the price is right ( i am willing to pay about fifty bucks)

mbdorfer
06-03-2006, 05:59 PM
Jag, Been a while since I went road cruisin', but as I recall, it was always best on a fairly humid evening after a good rain. One night in particular, I remember finding several ribbons, a scarlet king, few DOR garters, and a small eastern diamondback. You mentioned in your introduction post about not finding any getula . Try to find a place where there is some illegal trash dumping going on, I have found more Florida Kings digging through old pieces of carpet matting than I have in their natural habitat. I think the old trash attracts rodents :shrugs: :cheers:

And welcome to the forums, BTW

JAGSnake
06-03-2006, 06:25 PM
I went to the N.W. side of Jacksonville yesterday where they are starting to build new houses. Back behind one of the properties was an old structure. I have a feeling it was and old shed that only had a tin roof on it some time ago. I spent an hour flipping this tin over and I found so many snakeskins under it along with mice but I did not see any snakes. There was a fresh Canebrake and Pygmy skin but I must have been a day or so late. I have searched so many trash piles in my life and still have not found a King Snake or an Indigo Snake but being on the endangered species list I don't plan on finding one around here with all the building Jacksonville is doing. I've caught or seen, dead or alive just about every snake in Florida except a King Snake and that is the 1 snake I really want to find.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

When I lived in Poway, CA I would catch Kings all the time but for some reason Florida isn't as kind. <o:p></o:p>


About Night Driving

It was great when gas was around a dollar or so but now it's almost not worth going. Heck, for the amount of money I spend on gas for a few nights of driving could buy me a corn snake or king snake but the fun and excitement of driving down the road and seeing a snake you want crossing the road is priceless.

cowboyman13
06-03-2006, 06:26 PM
I haven't really tried road cruising. Sounds like Mike, and Mike give some good advice. Maybe David (Crazycorn) will chime in. I know he does allot of road cruising and has allot of luck finding corns.

JAGSnake
06-03-2006, 06:45 PM
I am going to guess by the way it was said that the poster was trying to make light of field collecting. Many people do not believe that any animal from the wild should be kept. What these people do not realize is that we would have no new blood, morphs, species, ect with out WC animals. Ever animal anybody on this board owns is a direct desendant from WC animals. There animal maybe a striped ultra lava lavander F2000 or just a normal F1, but it is a decendant from WC, and many people have yet to realize this.

Note. if anybody has a striped ultra lava lavander let me know i would be interested in one, if the price is right ( i am willing to pay about fifty bucks)
I also would like to comment on what you just said.

The Corn snake I found was in my neighborhood. If any of my neighbors would have found it in their yard, it would be a dead Corn snake. I am pretty friendly with the people on my street and ALL of them do not have the same understanding (ignorant) when it comes to snakes. The good thing is they know I like snakes and 3 of my neighbors will come and get me if they have 1 in their yard. I drive around semi-rural areas and as I have said, just about half the snakes I see our road kill. If I was there at the right time they would still be a happy LIVE snake today.

If I went into the middle of the forest and collected these snakes I can see why some would be upset but saving snakes from being ran over is another thing. I know once that subdivision is built those snakes that left their skins under the tin are as good as dead the minute they wonder into someones yard. If I went into the middle of the National Forrest and collected snakes I can understand why some would have a problem with it. I know some might say, " instead of keeping it why don't you just move it off the road". I do, all the snakes I have found except for this 1 Corn Snake I have helped off the road but I think the odds of that snake not crossing that road again is very low. I can't save every snake but if I choose to keep Corn Snakes that I find crossing the road, I think (IMO) he is better off in my care.

The Corn Snake I have now will never die from being ran over or by the shovel an ignorant man uses and will probably live twice as long in my care than he would have left in the wild given his situation when I found him.

Cflaguy
06-03-2006, 07:36 PM
Cruisin is one of my favs. In Oviedo Fl. we would go an hour before nightfall, till an hour or so after. Unless it had rained. You could go all night in that case. In this part of Oviedo it was swamp. Yellow and Scarlett King heaven. Ribbons, Garters and water snakes all over as well.
If you feel so inclined, we would go out about two hours before sunrise as well from the end of May through August.
Today, I live near the Withlacoothchee State Park in Lakeland. Two good, not to busy roads go right through. Yellows, Corns, Banded Waters and Eastern Diamondbacks on a regular basis.

CaptBogart
06-03-2006, 08:28 PM
Check out this link, I find it very informative and will put most of the suggestions to the test this year :D http://www.scserp.com/SCS_Night_Driving.htm

El Jefe
06-03-2006, 10:50 PM
I agree with the others....hour before sunset and a couple hours after. Probably 80% of the cool things I've found have been on roads. My first rock rattler, blacktail, western diamondback, eastern chain king, pygmy, scarlet king, scarlet snake, and many, many others.

I love crusing but gas is making it harder and harder!

TandJ
06-04-2006, 02:38 AM
The closer to full moons the more I feel my pickings get slim.. New moons seem to have ben the most productive for me.. I found the Rosey last night, but I think that will be my biggest find this year, considering where I cruise.
Lots of helpful information in this thread.. :cheers:

Regards Tim of T and J

El Jefe
06-04-2006, 08:53 AM
The closer to full moons the more I feel my pickings get slim..

One of the big theories I keep seeing in literature for this is that the predators (birds of prey mainly) are out in force for the rodents and the snakes as they are easier to see so you find that populations of both seem to hide to avoid this deadly confrontation. Seems logical to me. I know personally my mammal trapping is very poor on full moon nights as well as my road cruising success for herps.

TandJ
06-04-2006, 11:43 AM
Something else I noticed.. On new moon nights, I often have and owl or two follow me for a while, waiting to see what pop's up in my headlights.. Really kind of neat when the owl grabs a mouse or rat in front of your eyes.. Smart birdie.

Regards Tim of T and J

JAGSnake
06-04-2006, 03:38 PM
I am heading towards the Okefenokee Swamp area tonight, low will be around 70F, I am guessing the temp around 9PM will be in the high 70'sF if not around 80F. it just rained yesterday up there so I am guessing hunting should be good tonight.

CaptBogart
06-04-2006, 03:44 PM
We're supposed to get some rain here soon so hopefully it will be here and gone by 7pm so I can check out some of the roads around the house. We are a block away from a canal so hopefully some corals and scarlets will be spotted, but this early in the game anything will be welcomed...

Cflaguy
06-04-2006, 10:39 PM
We went to Withlacootchee late this evening about 5:30/6:00 to do a little hiking and some cruising. This portion of the forest has those classic white-sand dirt roads you see in pics. We left about 7:15 to go back through the forest. Nada; not a flippin thing.
So we stop by the convenience store for the after hike essentials; water and Peanut M&Ms. Then we started the 25 mile straight shot on 471 back home through Withlacootchee.
PAYDIRT! We saw a little guy crossing the road so I spun around to get him and bam! Right there was a Pygmy Rattler. Cute little fellow; gave me the full show. The striking, the herky, jerky motion everything. Lisa had a blast. She never really has done this before we met. Oh ya, the first snake fortunately got off the road (we never saw it again).
We also caught a juvenile Yellow Rat Lisa fell in love with so we have a new edition at least for now.
Total count of the night-
2 dead Banded Waters, 1 dead Ribbon.
3 Banded Waters caught and released, 1 Ribbon ditto.
1 dead Yellow Rat
BTW, the Pygmy I took down a road and released. :)

JAGSnake
06-05-2006, 12:25 AM
My son and I found some really good roads about 30 or so minutes from here that I feel will provide many snakes quality snakes in the future. Tonight we just came across a couple I really don't care about but took their picture anyway.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i226/srcrawford00/100_3448Small.jpg

JAGSnake
06-05-2006, 12:28 AM
Found some great road I feel will provide some great snakes in the future but tonight we found the following, better than nothing I guess.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i226/srcrawford00/100_3448Small.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i226/srcrawford00/100_3454Small.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i226/srcrawford00/100_3456Small.jpg

Cflaguy
06-05-2006, 06:54 PM
is a lizard. I haven't seen one of those in along time.

maegann
06-05-2006, 07:12 PM
i had one of those glass lizards. pre snake days, lol :crazy02:

JAGSnake
06-07-2006, 12:37 AM
http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/articles/FieldHerping/roadcruising.htm

I found this, pretty good info IMO

<TABLE width=750><TBODY><TR><TD width="99%" colSpan=2 height=114><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="78%">http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/Images/Headers/rdcruishdr.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>By Scott Matthew Quint
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="99%" colSpan=2> Of all the various methods of discovery employed by field herping enthusiasts, by far the most widely used is Road-Cruising. Road-Cruising is, very simply, driving around in the car on lightly traveled roads that intersect prime habitat (http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/glossary.htm#habitat) until you come across a reptile or amphibian crossing or sitting in the roadway. Road cruising can be done any time of the day or night and on paved or unpaved roads. Anyone can do it and everyone has a good chance of seeing something if the conditions are right and the road is in a good location.
<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="51%"> As with any kind of field herping, being successful with road cruising depends on location, weather conditions, herp (http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/glossary.htm#herp) population density and a fair amount of luck. Finding a good road can seem difficult sometimes because you tend to return to areas where you have had success. You could drive a really active road, but if the herps are not active at that time, you may not return. Conversely, if you have some luck on a usually inactive road, you may </TD><TD vAlign=top width="48%">http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/Images/Animals/Snakes/Thamnophis/sirtalis/sirtalis/ScottQuint/EGS02.jpg Garter Snake crossing a dirt road in Hyde County, NC
Photo by Scott Quint</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>return there again and again, even if you subsequently find little or nothing.
Spotting a Good Road:

A good road will have several consistent characteristics. Look for these things:


It will be travelled infrequently. Heavily travelled roads can be frustrating because there will likely be many dead animals on it. Also, it is more difficult to stop should you find something. There will always be someone wanting to pass you. Generally speaking, if the traffic frequency is high, there will be few animals on the road anyway.

It will cut through attractive habitat. This can be difficult to spot. Simply cutting through the woods is not always enough. Good habitat should also include a nearby water source. Also, some human activity is a plus. Look for roads that cut through slightly fractured habitat. The fracturing causes the animals to travel greater distances and to be more accustomed to crossing hazardous obstacles. Driving on roads that cut through undisturbed wilderness can be very frustrating because the herps have little reason to cross the road.

It will likely be relatively narrow. From the perspective of an animal that holds its head an inch from the ground, a road is a very large exposed area. A wide road is an obstacle that many animals will simply not risk crossing. Add to that the fact that most roads have right of ways that can also be paved and shoulders where the vegetation is cut. This exposes the herp to predators and can be quite daunting. Narrower roads, especially where the vegetation is thick all the way up to the actual roadway are best. Though with a narrow road comes shorter windows of opportunity to get to the animal before it disappears on the other side. If the habitat is good, though, mowed grass will not hurt too badly.
Do not get unduly discouraged by:


Lack of road-kills. Seeing large numbers of DOR's(Dead On Road) is a good indication that there is activity on a road, but lack of DOR's is not an indication of a lack of activity. Carcasses are often cleared by local predators and scavengers rather quickly. Also, if the road is lightly travelled, most animals can cross the road without incident. And, with the possible exception of snakes, most people will attempt to avoid hitting anything in the roadway.
An unproductive day. If all the above characteristics are strong, visit the road several times and under several different weather conditions. I know of several great roads that took several visits before they proved to be productive.
Human activity. I have found that light human activity (i.e.., residence or light agriculture) actually improves the chances of finding herps. Human presence fractures the habitat and creates an environment where herps become accustomed to travelling longer distances. Also, human activity actually creates better habitat for some herps. Given a road where there is no permanent human activity and one where there are a few residences and perhaps a couple of one-acre farms, I would wager that the one with the activity would be consistently more productive, all else being equal.
Gauging the Weather:

Depending on what it is you want to find, different weather conditions will have different effects on the herp activity. This will be true for ANY kind of herping. not only is the current weather important, but also the weather from the previous days and the impending weather conditions as well. There are too many combinations to identify them all here, but here are some general rules:


Very cold is very bad. This should go without saying. Herps are ectothermic (http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/glossary.htm#ectothermic) and cold weather reduces activity. However, it can be surprising how cold is "too cold". Given otherwise good conditions, nights with temperatures in the 60's(F) can still be productive. If the days are warm and rainfall has been consistent, a drop to 68F may of little consequence. Amphibians seem to be more tolerant of cold weather.
Heavy rain is good or Amphibians. If the rain is falling hard, you will likely see nothing but amphibians and of those, mostly anurans (http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/glossary.htm#anuran). If it is during the day, you may get some turtles crossing. Otherwise, you will probably see no snakes or lizards in heavy rain unless it has been raining heavily for a long period of time. Long periods of heavy rain saturates the ground and can drive animals out. Also, lightning and thunder seems to spook the reptiles, but has little obvious effect on anurans.
Very dry is bad for everything. Regardless of almost any other conditions, if the weather is and has been unusually dry, herps will go down into the ground and stay there. Animals that do not go underground will find a water source and stay there. Under these conditions, herps usually conserve energy and activity is infrequent. Quick bursts of precipitation may get some anurans moving, but likely nothing else.
Clear skies equals clear roads.This is not always 100% accurate, but generally speaking, clear is bad. When the skies are clear during the day, the direct sun makes ectotherms too warm even if the ambient temperature is mild. Some snakes (i.e., racers, rough green snakes and sometimes big rattlesnakes) do not mind as much, but most prefer partly cloudy skies if they are going on the move. At night, clear skies means a bright night, especially when the moon is full or nearly full. This is important because night time predators can see the herps better when the skies are clear. This doesn't mean that herps do not come out when it is clear, it only means that they tend to expose themselves less so crossing roads is not as frequent.
Moderate and consistent rainfall is good. This is generally true for all herps. Healthy, regular precipitation keeps temperatures mild and ground water abundant. So there are little or no (climatic)inhibitors to herp activity. Under healthy conditions, a light rain will stir many herps into activity. Under unhealthy conditions, light rain has virtually no effect on meaningful activity.
Moon phase matters. There is a lot of disagreement on this, but my experience is that the moon phase is important. A new moon or a moon that is below the horizon is better than a bright, full and risen moon. Simply because predators can see better in the moonlight, and most herps are prey for many nocturnal (http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/glossary.htm#nocturnal) predators. Obviously, moon phase means little for day cruising. Larger anurans still move in the moonlight at a greater rate than do snakes, but both move more frequently on unlit nights. Water snakes, I've noticed, still move on full moon nights, but only at dusk. Soon after dark they disappear.
Road Crossing Frequency:

<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="44%">http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/Images/Animals/Snakes/Elaphe/gutatta/ScottQuint/Duplin,NC%20Male.jpg Corn Snake crossing by a chicken farm in Duplin County, NC
Photo by Scott Matthew Quint</TD><TD vAlign=top width="55%"> Mathematically speaking, road cruising can be a really bad way or a really good way to find herps. It really depends on what you want to find.

Anurans sit in the road for the purpose of catching insects. They sit in the road because it actually easier to see and catch their prey. When lizards sit in the road, it is generally for the same reason, but you usually will not see lizards in the road in the Coastal Plains. You will occasionally, but usually not. If you are looking for anurans, under good conditions, you will find plenty at night on roadways.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Snakes cross roads because they happen to be in the path of their direction of travel. Sometimes snakes will pause in the road because it may be warm or because they came across a meal in the roadway, but generally speaking snakes cross roads not sit in them. All conditions being equal, road cruising is not the most productive way to find snakes in the Coastal Plains. This, by no means, is meant to imply that you will not find snakes, it simply is stating that you can find more using other methods. Consider this: when you are traveling down a road at night, your range of visibility is about 50 feet ahead and only about 25 feet from side to side. On a long road, the chance of a travelling snake intersecting your small window of visibility is not terribly good unless there are many, many snakes on the move and crossing the roadway. That last part is really important. There can be loads of snakes in the area, but only a few will cross a road and fewer still will happen to do so in your sight window. Statistically, most will cross behind you or beyond your headlights. In fact, many snakes are found because they occasionally freeze(go motionless) when they see the headlights. This is consistent behavior for animals that depend on camouflage. When they sense danger, they stop moving so as not to call attention to themselves. When snakes are killed on low-traffic roads, it is usually for this reason, because the chances of the snakes path crossing any car is equally as bad. If the snake has not yet entered the road and it sees the lights, it may freeze, turn around or continue on. In two of those scenarios(the most likely two), you will never see the snake. Be all that as it may, snakes are found on roads and because road cruising is easier and more comfortable than hiking or walking forest edges, road cruising will continue to be a popular way to find them.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="53%">Roadkills

An interesting feature of road cruising is that many herps are found dead. As silly a statement as this sounds, what makes it interesting is that the dead seem to frequently outnumber the living, even on low traffic roads. This is simply an artifact of the fact that a dead animal is effectively "frozen in time". Unless some scavenger cleans them up, the dead will remain and accumulate, while the unharmed animals will get off the road and never be seen. On a low traffic road (a frquency of vehicle passing any particular point every 5 minutes - 10 minutes) you may never see a roadkill (or DOR (http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/glossary.htm#DOR)), but there may still be plenty of herps. If there are a lot of DOR's, it is a good indication of a lot of herps.

</TD><TD align=middle width="45%">http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com/Images/Animals/Snakes/Elaphe/gutatta/DOR/DORSampson10-02_LO.jpg
DOR Corn Snake (Elaphe gutatta gutatta)- Sampson County, NC</TD></TR><TR><TD width="99%" colSpan=2> Road kills can be heart-breaking to find because it is a shame that any creature die so needlessly. But regardless of how recently the animal was hit, you likely would never have seen if it had not been. Occasionally an animal is killed right before your eyes, and those situations are most frustrating, but the vast majority are more than a few minutes old and so the animal would have long been off the road before you came along. I am not saying that it was good it was hit so that the animal could be at least seen, I am saying that you should not feel cheated about it.

Incidentally, road kills that are in good condition, should be collected and deposited at a museum along with the location data. These creatures can still be useful in death and there is much to be learned from them. A healthy roadkill collection at the museum can save many live animals from the pickle jar.

Sex Ratios:

In the Spring, males outnumber females on the road with a ratio of about 4:1. As the year progresses, these ratios level off to near equal, but males still seem to outnumber the females slightly. Studies of various snakes in various localities throughout the country have shown that male home ranges are generally larger than female home ranges. This indicates that males will cover greater distances and, therefor, cross more roads. Spring is mating season on the east coast for most species, and so males are more active in general.

Conclusion:

Road cruising is a game of chance, but the odds can be hedged. Given the cost of gas and the wear and tear on the vehicle, you should carefully consider when you choose to actually go out for the purposes of finding herps. Plan your trips carefully and mind the weather. By eliminating obviously bad conditions, you can conserve your resources for potentially better more productive tips and save yourself a lot of frustration.

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