i've been stupid

[boaccman]

i started out with what i thought was a trio of corns (1.2)
1.0 snow
0.2 amel, anery

they where about 9 months old when the amel got impregnated.
the outcome of hatclings where 8 all perfectly healthy amels.
what i know for sure is that the amel is a she;)
what i also know for sure is that the snow is a he.
i think i know for sure that the annery(sold to me as a she) is a he
i know that 8 hatchlings is not much but they where all red(amel)

is it possible for a amel and a anery to give only amels?
must it have been the snow who did the job?
what could the anery be HET for?

p.s i am aware of my stupidity to put 3 corns in a terrarium when i am not planning to breed them at the time.
i'm also aware it's not very smart to put juvenile corns of different
sexes in the same place because of the possibility the juvenile female could'nt stand the stress of "teenage pregnacy"

and please check out my list of snakes at the bottom to give me any advice on breading in the future.
thanxxx

[Alicia]

I'm glad everything turned out well and no harm done:)

The snow x amel would produce amels het anery.

Good Luck:D

[Darin Chappell]

If your anery is het for snow, it is POSSIBLE that he could throw all amels with your amel female, but it would be the same odds against this as it would be for him to throw all normals with her and be het for snow. Although 8 hatchlings is a small sample from which to draw definite conclusions, I would say that the odds on favorite is the snow male for being the sire of your clutch.

[boaccman]

thank you very much alicia for your reply but i think i'm more happy with the reply from darin.
i do think it has been the anery. (saw them together at night ROMANCING i think)
i know the odd's are against the theory but it is possible.
what should i do in two years: breed in bro's and sisses tho get snows? or put my snow on own of the above sisses?(to get snows)

if i sad something stupid above, good, then reply and teach this beginner.
:D ;) :p

[bmm]

Because in two years you will still have another year to wait. Females really need three years.

I am glad your snakes came out fine and I am glad you mentioned understanding why they shouldn't have been put together but it seems like you will be ready to do this again with the babies.

Why?

Don't you want your females to live as healthy and as long as they can? I know you said you understand, but then you mentioned breeding the offspring in two years. Most resposible breeders wait three, as many many many females just don't reach the age by two. Sure a few might but why push it? Why the rush? It can really shorten your corns happy life is osmething happens.

bmm

[Darin Chappell]

Firstly, boaccman, maybe you didn't read exactly what I wrote, but I'm in agreement with Alicia. While it's POSSIBLE that an anery het for amel COULD throw all amels and no normals, the odds are really against such happening. I would bet on the snow being the happy sire!

Secondly, if your female hatchlings are about 3' long and in good flesh, they will be fine for breeding, whether they are two years old or not. Given the number of snakes produced by the breeders I know (some of which are some of the biggest names in the business), I can't really support the idea that the "[m]ost resposible breeders wait three [years]" to breed their snakes. I think most breeders breed their animals when they are big enough to successfully lay eggs, regardless of how old they are.

It may be, that due to the fact that some breeders feed their animals less than many hobbists do (mostly because they simply have SO MANY to feed), some breeders tend to have their females large enough only at three, but that is a situation of circumstance rather than one of determined practice, IMHO. Personally, if there is a female in my racks that has the necessary size and weight on her to breed, and I want eggs out of her (she'd be sold if I didn't), she'll be introduced to a male no matter her age. Given my husbandry practices, produced animals, and business dealings in the herp community, I think that I qualify as a responsible (albeit small) breeder.

I certainly would not advocate power feeding an animal to make her big enough to breed, but I have some two year olds from Kathy Love that are over, or very near 36" long and chubby. They're het for bloodred and hypo, and you better believe they'll be gravid come spring, if I have anything to say about it. :D

So, back to the question at hand, what should you breed to those female hatchlings? Well, if you breed them to the snow male, you won't have proven anything, because that pairing should produce half amels and half snows, regardless of which animal was the original sire. However, if you breed the anery to one of those females, and you get no snows at all, then you will know fairly certainly that the snow was the original sire.

If the F2 babies are all anery and normal, then your anery is likely not het for amel. If you get some snows, aneries and some normals, your anery is het for amel, but you won't be able to tell if he or the snow was the original sire in this last case.

have fun sorting it all out!

;)

[bmm]

Of course!

I should have made myself more clear. I used the age of three since that is when *most* females reach the appropraite size in grams and length. But I FULLY agree that many females achieve proper size by two.

I was just saying anything because I find it disturbing sometimes that people post that there under 1 year old snake just had babies, and we know that snake is *not* nearly of size. And then they want to know how soon they can breed those babies. I find it sad, and disrespectful to animals. Although the case above was accidentle, it happens soooo often its heartbreaking to me that a tiny female should be placed with a male and she gets pregnant and then dies. I personally have heard of this many times.

But you are correct, this was not the question at hand, and I apologize for that.

[boaccman]

no harm done, only more replies, thank you.

i"m really going to like this place

[Serpwidgets]

I'd bet on the Snow as being the father. Or it could be that both of them fathered some of the clutch.

But keep in mind that it's not simply "unlikely" for the anery to have fathered all amels. That is, assuming it's het for amel. If all three are siblings, he's at least 66% possible het for amel.

Anyway, if you cross an amel to an anery het amel and get 8 eggs, the odds of getting 8 amels are 1 in 256.

Not impossible, but it's a pretty good bet that the Anery did not father all 8 offspring. :)