Lumps, bumps, and bulges

[dash_splamage]

Hi there, this will be my first time posting to these excellent forums for corn snakes, and I thank those that created this place for all of the useful information I have read here.

I have had Mashie about three weeks after he was hatched in July 2001. I bought him from a reptile-only pet store and was told that he was amelanistic red albino but I didn't really remember, the only thing I recall was getting him in my hands to look at and saying, "I'll take him." I was also told to get the Corn Snake Manual by Bill and Kathy Love which I did and refer to when I have a question. All in all he's been a good little snake to me.

This is Mashie:
http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/CloseUpInVivarium_500.jpg

I don't know when I first noticed a bulge or a lump, but his second half has been rather thick for a long while. I thought it seemed to be normal for corn snakes, but since this is the only one that I have ever known, I was only presuming this to be the case.

This is a photo of me holding him back in or around June 2004:
http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/Jun2004_500.jpg

And this is from around December 2004:
http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/dec2004View_500.jpg

Those photos look normal so far as I can tell. At any rate, I did begin to notice at some point that his back third was getting lumpy when I would take him out and feed him. Rarely would he regurge and from what I read, this was not unusual to see it happen a great once in a while. I would typically let him rest and feed him in a week, and he'd gobble the mouse (he's eaten exclusively frozen) right up. Probably in 2005, the lumps became more pronounced about 8 to 12 inches up from the vent.

Here are the photos of his tail from 2006.

February 22:
http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/TailTopView_500.jpg

http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/BumpyTailEnd_500.jpg

September 2:
http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/CurrentTailView_500.jpg

http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/SecondViewTop_500.jpg

And for perspective, this is him more stretched out.
http://www.boyerillustrations.com/xfer/wholeBodyCurrent_500.jpg

In August he regurged three times consecutively, and from what I was reading on the forums I approached the third feeding after waiting a week from his second regurge. He was definitely interested in the mouse, so I sense that he is hungry but he did not appear to be able to keep the mouse down. Hence a trip to the vets on Friday along with a stool sample. The results on the stool sample turned up nothing.

The vet then pushed down on several of the bulges or lumps and said that they felt like air trapped under the skin. I hadn't made that connection, but sure enough when you press down the skin is springy, not like a solid mass below the surface. He then prepped up a lump and inserted a needle to draw a sample just in case it was really fluid under the skin. He drew the plunger but nothing came out and the barrel of the syringe was empty. He had said that there are cases in other snakes where a rupture occurs possibly in the lungs and gas just makes its way under the skin and backwards but that he wasn't familiar with corn snakes having this. His theory was that this might add to internal pressure on the rest of the organs, and it might be the cause of the regurgitation.

At any rate, the vet gave him an antibiotic injection (Mashie showed off just how strong he is by bending the needle while the vet gave him the injection) and he has three more coming at 72 hour intervals. I am trying to be optimistic that these will help him, but I felt obliged to toss this one out there given the number of other threads related to lumps, bumps, and bulges in corns. I'll be happy to post the end results too.

Thanks all!

[BeckyG]

It looks to me to be grossly overweight. He may have other problems as well, but he definitely needs to be put on a diet.

Maybe someone else has seen your problem, and can offer more advice.

[Lennycorn]

It looks to me to be grossly overweight. He may have other problems as well, but he definitely needs to be put on a diet.

My thoughts aswell.

[PtDnsr]

Being overweight was my first thoguht too. Do you know how much he weighs and how long he is? Also how often have you been feeding him and what?

~Katie

[Arcanefate]

I must say...

as I was reading your post, I felt bad for the poor snake that you are having problems with him, but at the same time I could not help but think...

"Holy Giant Snake Batman!" :eek1:

Could they just be very large fat deposits that are now cutting off the circulation of the lower intestines and causing obstructions?

[Tula_Montage]

How often do you feed him! He is severly obese...

If he was to go on a diet, he would still be left with fatty deposits. My amel mot girl was overfed before I got her and shes left with slight "hips" but still looks amazing. I would strongly suggest cutting back his mooses!

When did he start to get sooo big?

[diamondlil]

Wow! that's a fat fat snake! hopefully a diet and more excercise will gradually smooth him out!

[Paradox]

I thought overweight as well, but I didn't want to be the first to say it incase I was wrong :crazy02: I'd sugest just feeding him less less often and seeing how it goes...

[BeckyG]

I would strongly suggest cutting back his mooses!



Maybe he really is feeding him moose! That snake almost looks big enough to take one. I wonder how he'd swallow the antlers, though... :sidestep:

[dash_splamage]

Hahhhaha, ok, I think I sense a theme emerging. :O) I'm glad I came to the right place, albeit a bit late.

From the operator of the reptile store, I had the impression that he could eat at least once a week, and to not feed him a mouse bigger than 1 and 1/3 the girth of his body. I'd say I feed him no more often than once a week currently though I do not keep track of his feedings (neglect on my part). The mice that I do feed him are adult white mice that are sized to about the girth of the "less fat" portion of his body.

Mashie does *little* in terms of moving about though. If he is out during the daylight or early evening hours, I'd say it would occur one or two days a week, and less so during the winter. His hide box spans the warm side of the vivarium and the cool side, which is where he spends most of the day. I would estimate that I would see him out more often at night two years ago than now. The cool side of his hide box is in the air temperature range of mid-60s to 70, and the warm side is 85 (I have a heating mat under about 2 inches of aspen bedding though the temperature of the mat is constant).

I'll get a length shortly, and I know the vet weighed him but I cannot remember the total. I am shuddering at the reaction I'll get when I post these, but I am here to learn more and be a good owner.

Anyone know of a hamster wheel that works for obese corn snakes? In all seriousness though, what might an owner do to encourage more excercise without putting undo stress on the snake? Am I just being over-cautious in handling the snake?

[Tula_Montage]

Handle him as much as possible... Cut his feeding back down to 1 smaller mouse every 2 weeks. I dont know if this is recommended but you could brumate him through the winter to shed that weight even if you have no intention on breeding.

[Infinite]

Wow, that's a big snake. I never really gave a thought that a snake could get fat.

[desertanimal]

Anyone know of a hamster wheel that works for obese corn snakes? In all seriousness though, what might an owner do to encourage more excercise without putting undo stress on the snake? Am I just being over-cautious in handling the snake?

If I had an overweight snake, I would put it in the tub with a few inches of room temperature water for exercise. I put mine in the tub quite regularly for a swim. Some people, though, say that their snakes get really stressed out in the water. Since you seem to be having issues with regurges, I would be concerned about stressing him out. Cutting back on feeding should get him coming out and moving around more often, at the very least, because he'll be looking for food.

[BeckyG]

Most adult snakes don't need to eat but once every 10-14 days. They do better if they're kept slightly hungry. As with people, the best way to reduce weight is eating less and exercising. Follow the tips already given. It will take a long long time, but your snake should start to trim up eventually.

One more thing, snakes do have different metabolisms just like people. I have one snake that I really have to watch, because she'll pack on the grams if she is on the same feeding schedule as my other snakes. The key is to know your snake.

Good luck and keep us updated.

[SnakeAround]

Handle him as much as possible... Cut his feeding back down to 1 smaller mouse every 2 weeks. I dont know if this is recommended but you could brumate him through the winter to shed that weight even if you have no intention on breeding.

Since their metabolism slows down, they usually do not loss weight or just a little during brumation. Some even gain weight!

[SnakeAround]

BTW, I have a pretty big corn measuring 1.40 and he weighed 1136 grams when I got him November 2005, due to 2 mice a week, little handling (I suspect) and no space to move in a very small viv. He has drawn back to just above 1000 about 2 months ago mostly due to breeding season issues; he stopped eating for about 2 months. When he started eating again, I gave him 1 weaner rat (mouse size) every 18 days untill he weighed just above1000, brought it back to 1 every 12 days but he gained 50 grams again. Now he is back on a 16 days schedule to loss weight again, he looked good at 1000 grams. He is not a very active snake, but since he was more active when he was slimmer and hungier, I do think these things are related. So, since yours has to loose a lot more, I would start feeding every 3 weeks. He might exercise more then too, looking for food.

[gnarhimself]

Wow! that's a fat fat snake! hopefully a diet and more excercise will gradually smooth him out!

Agreed,chances are that the lumps you are seeing are fatty deposits,its not detremental to the snakes health YET,but I would suggest a diet and some exercise as well...

Just my 2 cents worth
:grin01:

[Cindy]

Is there any chance she is pregnant? I had a snake lay 15 eggs completely out of the blue and as I have owned him (or her as it turned out) for two years there was no way she had mated..... but I got eggs...... go figure?

:shrugs:

[SnakeAround]

Is there any chance she is pregnant? I had a snake lay 15 eggs completely out of the blue and as I have owned him (or her as it turned out) for two years there was no way she had mated..... but I got eggs...... go figure?

:shrugs:

Wow, major case of sperm retention!

I did think of eggs too, but since I figured that this one had not been bred.... :rolleyes:

[Lennycorn]

Is there any chance she is pregnant? I had a snake lay 15 eggs completely out of the blue and as I have owned him (or her as it turned out) for two years there was no way she had mated..... but I got eggs...... go figure?

:shrugs:

Slugs???? :shrugs:
Just a thought!

[Cindy]

The eggs my snake laid even though she had not met another snake in over two years were fertile, It was outlined here that the can change sex but retain some of the sperm therefore self fertilising (Parathogenisis (sp?))

[SnakeAround]

Where was that outlined, on this forum?! Never heared anything about it..... Would be a nice problem to deal with when planning and executing breeding projects :rolleyes:

[Cindy]

I think it was Serpwidgets that explained it to me http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37065 could be possilbe that that its the same thing and birth is imminent (although I guess the vet would have thought of it!)

[Roy Munson]

Parthenogenesis does not imply that an animal has changed gender. Neither sponataneous gender change nor parthenogenesis has been documented in corns (to the best of my knowledge).

[SnakeAround]

Serp said that she has probably been WITH a male before you got her... ;)

[Cindy]

My understanding of Serps reply was either retained sperm OR Paranthenogenisis(sp?) PerhapsI should start another topic on this subject as I am concerned I have hijacked this thread. I hope he gets well soon whatever the cause. :wavey:

[Cindy]

See new thread for further discussions http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=10

[Cindy]

oops that link doesn't work.. see Breeding/Egg production & Care Forum for new topic.

[dash_splamage]

Well, I said I would come back with the numbers when I got them so here they are: Mashie (he is a He just to be certain) is just at about 5 feet in length and his weight at the vet this morning was *gulp* 1,692 grams.

How long can a snake go without any food by the by? Not that I want to starve him, but I don't want to go too long without feeding him yet keeping in mind that a 4th regurgitation is a very bad sign if that comes to pass.

[SnakeAround]

Oh my..... I'd give him a 4 week break from eating now, and give him some Nutribac in his water. Good for his stomach and the 4 weeks without food for loosing weight. Then start with a pinkie, after 10 days 2 pinkies, after 12 days a fuzzie and after 2 weeks a hopper, then after 16 days a weaner and after 18 days a small mouse to end with the slimming schedule of 1 mouse every 3 weeks. But since I am not an expereienced expert, this is just my interpretation of all I have read. The best expert on regurges is Kathy Love, so you can allso take a look in the manual. She allso recommends Grapefruit seed extract for stomach problems involving bacteria, viruses and parasites, but yours might have problems because of the fatty deposits. Giving GSE would not hurt anyway though IMO. It helped 1 of my snakes bounce back from stomach problems. Good luck with this one!

[BeckyG]

I wouldn't give a 5 foot snake a pinky. Start with a mouse about half the size of what he is eating now.

[kr3w]

do u house him with other snakes? maybe a different snake has bitten in the lower area and has inflammed or infected

[MerlinsPop]

do u house him with other snakes? maybe a different snake has bitten in the lower area and has inflammed or infected
This thread is nearly a year old. Any word on progress of this snake?

[dash_splamage]

Thanks for posting.

Mashie is still his usual self. I have not been able to get him to a scale since his first few visits to the reptile vet, but his hindquarters are still quite full-figured to date.

His eating habits have been reduced by more than somewhat. I bought a bag of hoppers/weanlings for him and they are now gone (maybe 15 or 20), and I have tried to move him onto larger mice every two weeks or so, but he does not look noticeably different. I think if I get an exact weight measurement that will be helpful, but I don't believe supermarkets like it if you bring in a snake to toss on their vegetable scales.

He lives by his lonesome as well. No other snakes for him to stress out about. I did have him to a children's book reading in the last month and it was the first time that he got to wander about in the green grass in his life. He also found the first chipmunk hole of his life and wanted to go exploring which excited me greatly. :O)

Aside from that he has been stable. Only about two regurges that I can recall in the last 6 months, and those were on larger mice. I'd wait a week or more and then hand him a smaller one which he would keep down.

As for other details, he hides 23 hours a day and does say much just like always. ;O)