Nutrients with pinkies

[Rhiannon]

Hi everyone!
I was just wondering if anyone gives there corns nutrients with their food. I was given some when I got my first corn, the breeder said it was very important for their health.
It says on the packet,"A high potency calcium balancer and multivitamin supplement to help bone growth in snakes, lizards and tortoises" Does anyone else use something like this? Is it really nessary?
Thanks
*rhiannon*
:)

[Unregister]

i think the nutrient within the fuzzie its self is emough....i have never had to have any other source.


All i have is the vituims to put in the water...and i dont think that is Nessecary either!:cool:

[Alicia]

Is it really necessary?? I don't think anyone has scientific proof one way or the other. I personally use powdered calcium and vitamin supplements. I would never go so far as to say that you MUST give them supplements. There are many people who keep healthy animals without supplements. I would say go with what you feel is the right thing to do:) I also know that I am in the minority as far as this topic goes and there will be many replys to the opposite, so I'll get my .02 in early:D

[Iris]

I occasionally use Rep Cal calcium supplements to dust pinkies with
I figure it can't hurt so why not if I have the $6 to buy a jar.
:)

[Ken Harbart]

Well, it can hurt. Too much calcium is just as bad as not enough.

Personally, I supplement only my breeding females. As for juveniles... I have yet to see a hypocalcemic rodent-eating snake (with the exception of diamond pythons). Pink mice, in addition to containing calcium in the skeletal structire, are also "gut loaded" with calcium when they nurse.

[Rich Z]

Do you think that what you are feeding your mice pretty much duplicates the diet they would have out in the wild? After all, this is the nutrition that the snake gets that eats the mouse. Mice in the wild will nibble or eat just about anything. And when they fatefull day arrives that it sees that flicking tongue and moves closer to see what the heck it is, whatever is in the mouse's belly goes into the snake's belly. Bits of leaves, bugs, tree bark, and probably anything else the mouse had an inkling to see what it would taste like.

Personally, I feel that although lab chows are pretty good, they can't provide everything that trickle up nutrition needs for the things that eat the chow eaters. Consequently, I give my snakes a combination of Super Preen multivitamins and Osteoform on a regular basis. Been doing it this way for a very long time and am quite happy how my snakes have turned out over the years.

In the case of calcium, unless your snake has a source of vitamin D3, quite likely not much of the calcium intake is of much use to the snake. It is my understanding that D3 is necessary for the assimilation of dietary calcium into the blood stream to get to areas like the skeletal structure that needs it.

Of course, your mileage may vary, or my understanding of the mechanisms of vitamin uptake are faulty.

[Rachel]

I dust pinkies with Repti vitamins. Simply because pinks don't usually have as much nutrients as a fluffy etc. I wouldn't feed calcium as a supplement on its own because, as Rich said, you need other vitamins and minerals to uptake calcium. These would be found in a multi vit supplement or cheleated calcium and zinc and magnesium.

[slick]

i think the repti vitamins are really good.....ive been givin my cornsnake repti vitamins and ive noticed changes in the skin color it makes the skin look really new.....plus my snake now is even more hyper than before .....

[CowBoyWay]

Reptiles use vitamin D3 as a catalyst that bonds to calcium and allows it to be assimilated.
In other words, no matter how much calcium you add to your animals diet it cannot be processed and used without the proper amount of D3 in the reptiles system.

The following link is to a relatively long informative usenet rebuttal type ofa rant about how calcium D3 & vitamin supplements help enhance metabolism and the utilization of nutritents as well as supplying essential amino acids to build protein.

From USENET july of 96 .
The author is RICHARD SCHROEDER
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=31EE694A.366E%40AA.WL.COM&rnum=6
It starts like this:
Pinky mice are low in calcium, as well as the calcium/phosphorus ratio favoring too much phosphorus, however as mice grow into fuzzies and jumpers the calcium/phosphorus ratio improves and their calcium content increases as they produce more calcified bone.

Thus it is important that growing snakes that are building bone and eating pinky and young fuzzy mice be supplemented with calcium by dusting the pinky/fuzzy mice with a good vitamin and mineral supplement.
This helps insure stronger healthier snakes during this very critical growing phase in their life.
Secondly, fat is used for energy not growing muscle and organ proteins,
and generally compared to older mice, pinky mice are not that high in total fat, since they have not had time to develop fat stores, and pinky
feeder mice are usually not around long enough to develop much fat
storage......

[hurricane1]

i use a vitamin spray on my snake food, i think it is a good idea, i think it is more necessary than water drops, but just my opinion

[bmm]

Does anyone actually know what a wild mouse has that a captive mouse doesn't?

Its great to assume that they have more nutrients because they eat bark and grass and whatever they find and I am even inclined to believe this myself....but I have yet to see any scientific proof to this. Anyone have any referances or anything like this?

I have mentioned before that my mice get fed the leftovers each night. I have a small colony which makes this task possible, if not enjoyable and I do it each night or every other night if I have something else to feed them. This includes eggs, rice, cereals, beans, croutans, salad leftovers etc. ON TOP of their diet of mouse mix from pet store, small amounts of dry dog food and cat food and gerbil/squrriel mix. I can't really see a need to feed them or dust them on *top* of this. Because to me this goes above and beyond what any wild mouse might be eating. And my snakes have done fine as I just don't feel comfortable dusting anything for reptiles unless they absolutly aren't getting it in diet. I'd rather modify the diet of prey or their food instead of put those reptiles vitamins in them. But thats my personal choice :)

bmm

[bmm]

Is there any studies on snakes who are eating differant diets that I could read? I.E. Blood tests done on them etc....snakes eating captive, some eating wild, some eating lizards, then the results??? anyone know of any? thanks

bmm

[sphinx]

you because everyone is telling you something different,
dont worry you will find this in virtualy every question you ask in this hobby what you have to do is listen to them all and make up your own mind ,i personaly do not use any additives but im not saying people who do use them are wrong.
make up your own mind
SORRY

[Alicia]

I've never found anything, but I can't say I've spent a lot time looking either:D I've been really pleased with the vitamins and calcium that I use so I will continue to use it. Like I said in my earlier post, it's a choice each keeper has to make. I don't know that we could ever duplicate exactly what wild rodents eat but I feel that between the mice/rats and the vit/min supplements I'm most likely covering all the bases:)

[Rachel]

Originally posted by bmm
Is there any studies on snakes who are eating differant diets that I could read? I.E. Blood tests done on them etc....snakes eating captive, some eating wild, some eating lizards, then the results??? anyone know of any? thanks

bmm

Yeah there are a few studies but not many done on cornsnakes. The ones I have seen seem to be more on garters and other reptiles (lizards seem to be a favourite). I can't make them available as a link because you have to be a registered user but you can email me and I'll give you the details if you want to search at your own leisure!

rrrrrmeow@hotmail.com

[Rhiannon]

I 've read all the posts so far and I'm getting a lot of different advice, but like alicia said earlier, it's the choice each keeper has to make, so i suppose every ones right in their own way because everyone is different.
I don't think it realy matters about nutrients though, it's like grown-ups telling their kids to have their vitamins in the morning,it doesn't matter if you have them or not, as long as your eating right you should be healthy. Same with snakes.... sort of, I don't know how to explain it really.


BUT..... i have chosen to use the nutrients for 2 reasons, 1- the stuff people are saying about it make it sound good for the snake.:)
2- I'ts really expensive and I have a whole tub to use up!:D

[sphinx]

ultimately its your choice dont let anyone tell you different.

[stephen]

i beleive it is important to know what kind of food the mice are fed and how well upkept they are . the food they eat goes in your snakes so most rodent breeders feed there mice food that meets your snakes needs. but not all do so check out what they are feeding there mice also if they dont keep there rodent cages clean they also can have mites or fleas which will also be transferred to your snakes if mice have fleas and your snakes eat them they will get tape worms. which are a costly internal parasite to get rid of . prices of medicines and vet visits