In the unfortunate event of a force feed.

[antsterr]

I've never force feed before and I hope I don't need to start now.
I have a butter corn who hatched on June 6. I purchased him on Aug 26 from a breeder who's sell policy is that it must have ate at least 3 times before it can be sold. So it's eaten 3+ times but has refused all meals since I purchased it. I've tried unsuccessfully all the tricks on the board except for anole scent and force feeding. Anoles cost $20 here so I'd like to avoid that, but I do want what's best for my snake so I might purchase one later this week. In the unfortunate even of having to force feed, What is the best method to do this? I don't know of anyone in town who would be able to help so I'd be doing this for the first time with no guidance. So this would only be a last resort, I hope it would remind the snake how much it likes mice and gets him eating again.
First off, how long should one wait before it's time to consider force feeding? It's been at least 3 weeks since it's last meal. The snake is 9 inches long and has got a bit skinnier then when I first got it.
Secondly, When force feeding, what is the proper method to do this? I really hope I don't have to but I need to know what I'm doing. I'm mostly not sure of a good way to get his mouth open.
Thanks. If you're a praying person, please pray for Malachi the butter corn.

[kimbyra]

Tell us about your set up. Maybe its too cool on the warm end, etc.
There are lots of methods to try before thinking about force feeding. That really is a last resort by far as prob's can result. There's braining; tuna juice, chicken broth, or lizard scenting, wiggling its prey, trying a live small pink, etc... Try the search function for lots of advice, and the FAQ section. Have you spoken with the breeder?

[antsterr]

He's in 5 gallon glass tank. A themometer at one end reads 83º at one end, the other end has no thermometer but is cooler. I've housed several corns very successfully in this tank viv before. It's friend who lives next door in the exact same set up is doing very well. I've tried feeting live overnight, brained, chicken scent, tuna scented, Ivory soap wash, Just Pinky Heads, I've tried wiggling its prey. I've tried every trick I can find. All but lizard and forced feed. Like I said, Lizard will be expensive.

[Serpwidgets]

This year I tried tube feeding on a few non-feeders, to see how well it would work. What I used was a syringe and small catheter. This is a lot less stressful and traumatic on the hatchling (some even would just sit there like "yay, it's feeding time!")

For the "food" I used a regular chicken egg like you buy in the store. Warm it up to room temperature, then crack the egg and scramble it up with a fork so that when you pull it into the syringe you get both yolk and white.

Use about half the volume of a pinky you'd use for the snake. If you get too much in them, they will spit it back up. What I mean is, if the pinky you'd feed this snake would be 2 grams, you would want to give him 1 cc of egg. (Put more than that in the syringe, so that you're not pumping an air bubble into his stomach.)

With the small end of the catheter (as opposed to an entire pinky) it's very easy to hold the snake in one hand and sneak the tube into his mouth and then down his throat. If you get egg all over on the outside of the tube it will usually be enough lubrication. If you run out of lube, you can push a tiny bit of egg out with the plunger to re-lube the end of the catheter. Slowly push until you reach the stomach, which is about 1/3rd of the way down their body. If you go too far you will most likely feel resistance. Some will resist by curving their body, but you should be able to gently get past that.

Since the meals were smaller I fed them every 2-3 days. Their poop can be extraordinarily nasty and will grow fungus on it quickly, so do check often for that so that you can clean it immediately.

The tube feeders grew, not as fast as their eating siblings, but they did grow. They also were not traumatized and did not lose weight or get skinny, and maintained very good health. I would start them on the tube after 2-3 skipped meals, instead of waiting for them to get skinny. Every few meals I would offer them a pink, and all of them (out of about 8) did choose to eat pinkies eventually and never looked back, some of them even eat through their shed cycles now. The change in attitude was always right after a shed event, too, so if they shed be sure to offer a pinky before tubing them again.

[ChristinaM]

I've never force feed before and I hope I don't need to start now.
I have a butter corn who hatched on June 6. I purchased him on Aug 26 from a breeder who's sell policy is that it must have ate at least 3 times before it can be sold. So it's eaten 3+ times but has refused all meals since I purchased it. .

One thing I would suggest, is contacting the breeder and asking him/her how they fed the snake.... was it live, FT, did they move the snake to a seperate container, etc. Sometimes that will help, if you offer it in the way it was used to eating.

- what kind of thermometer are you using? 83F is a little on the low side....Try bumping it up to 86F.

- personally, I will let the non-feeder go for about 4wks, longer if it has already eaten, but less time if it appears to be losing weight.

- an alternative way to forcefeed, which I got from another breeder.... instead of using a pinkie, cut off the hind leg of a mouse ( hopper size ), and feed it to the snake, toes first. Alot less traumatizing to the snake, and just as nutritious if not more so.

- to get his mouth open, use something smooth and fairly flat with no sharp edges. I've used a nail file, popsicle stick ( actually it was from a pogo )...etc. Just be gentle so you don't hurt his teeth/mouth.

- do you have Kathy Love's book? If so, she shows in it, how to forcefeed.

Good luck :)

[antsterr]

I do have Kathy's book. I forgot about it. thanks. I'll considder the egg method. Maybe even try egg scenting, you never know.

[antsterr]

Well good news!
I took little Malachi to local reptile store where they lady who runs it has had experience force feeding. I was a little surprised that her method was not anything ever read of here here. She took a live pinky and stuffed it's head in the snakes mouth and then we sat and watched for a minute or two until the snake decided that he was cool with this and began to eat it on his own. He swallowed quite slowly but got it all down. I'll be going back next week to see if he'll eat on his own or need a forced feed again.

One kind of disturbing note was that she believed from the size of the snake that it had never eaten. The breeder says It had eaten at least 3 times. I don't know one way or the other. A 3 month old corn snake (assuming the breed gave it's correct age, I have to reason to doubt it) that's eaten at least 3 times and is only 9 inches long, does that sound likely? I'm not sure who to believe. Anyway, I'm happy, Malachi is happy. I even tipped that pet shop lady. I'm feeling wonderful right now. :eatpointe: :eats02: :crazy02:

[ChristinaM]

One kind of disturbing note was that she believed from the size of the snake that it had never eaten. The breeder says It had eaten at least 3 times. I don't know one way or the other. A 3 month old corn snake (assuming the breed gave it's correct age, I have to reason to doubt it) that's eaten at least 3 times and is only 9 inches long, does that sound likely? I'm not sure who to believe. Anyway, I'm happy, Malachi is happy. I even tipped that pet shop lady. I'm feeling wonderful right now. :eatpointe: :eats02: :crazy02:

I am very glad to hear that he ate for you.

As far as the rest of your concerns, hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong...but...

-hypothetically, if a 3mos old baby had never eaten, I would think it would have died by now.

- something is off. At least it sounds like it. Either your snake is not 3mos old, or hasn't eaten at least 3 times. My money is on a combo, the snake is younger than 3mos, and hasn't eaten or maybe eaten once.

- is the breeder you recieved him from very reputable? or known at all by others? Have they been any help to you at all during this time?

either way, I wouldn't recommend buying from him/her again :(

Sounds like you have a really nice pet shop lady :) That is great that she was willing to help you out. Hopefully you don't need it anymore, but if you do, at least you do have someone reliable to help you. :)