PDA

View Full Version : feeding live


feeding live

DirtySanchez
04-22-2002, 12:57 AM
Hey people, I think there is nothing wrong with feed your snakes live mice. As long as you watching them and you know the scheudle( I know its spelled wrong) that you feed them on. I think its great to see nature at its best, but that just might be me. All i am saying if your going to feed them live mice be smart about it ok

Serpwidgets
04-22-2002, 04:07 AM
I think its great to see nature at its best, but that just might be me.

It certainly isn't me. You're talking about the propagation of variations upon a theme which are then forced into a life or death struggle with one another. I don't think it's something to be emulated in my home.

In fact, if you read the first paragraph of the page linked below, you will notice that in the wild they also eat prekilled prey.

I think there is nothing wrong with feed your snakes live mice.

Most people don't, until one of their snakes is hurt or killed by its food.

As long as you watching them and you know the scheudle( I know its spelled wrong) that you feed them on.

Please. It's not like the mouse stands up and announces on a bullhorn that it is going to bite your snake. It is something that happens in a fraction of a second with no warning and you will not be able to stop it no matter how closely you are watching. By the time you've even realized what's happened, it's too late. I had a WC Ball Python that took several live meals before she acclimated to prekilled prey... I speak from personal experience.

Since you obviously didn't read this page (did you read any of the linked pages from the previous thread?) here is a quote from Flank, Lenny. 1997. Live Prey vs. Prekilled. Originially published in The Snake: An Owner's Guide to a Happy Healthy Pet, Howell Book House, NY. (http://www.anapsid.org/prekill2.html)

One day, I opened her cage and plopped a nice fat live hamster inside to feed her, as I had done routinely at least several dozen times before. The Python promptly seized the hamster by the side of its body, but failed to get a good grip and hesitated for barely a moment. Whereupon, in an instant, the hamster, with its last bit of energy before it went into shock, turned and bit the snake squarely in the skull. Within seconds, both were dead.

This is a 5-foot python that was instantly killed by a hamster. The key point here is that these things happen too quickly for us to do a single thing about it.

All i am saying if your going to feed them live mice be smart about it ok

Be smart: avoid feeding prey that is capable of fighting back, period.

jim
04-22-2002, 08:24 AM
if you have a dog, go ask it if he would much prefer a "natural" environment where he would have to worry about hunting for food, sickness, and all of the other dangers associated with living in the wild. i bet if he could he would say no. also, would you make your dog or cat kill and eat rabbits or squirrels that you would bring home for it because it would be more "natural"??? probably not, because a squirrel could seriously mess up your cat or dog. snakes and rodents are the same way. i doubt there is a single snake in the world in someones aquarium sittin back in their hide thinking "boy i really hope Bob brings home a few live mice this week. i could use some excitement. i'm so bored. i need a really good fight." NOW READ SERP'S POST AGAIN...---JIM

lynn
04-22-2002, 02:53 PM
I feed mine frozen\thawed and if I did feed her live I am sure it would of been bitten because she often take's them backwards I personally would not like to feed live and risk my snake's health.

Iris
04-22-2002, 04:16 PM
Is it ok to feed live pinkies sometimes?
A friend of mine has a 5 year old amel and she feeds it live pinkies sometimes like after egg laying as a quick snack or something. Pinkies don't seem to be able to do much damage....or is this another "you think so until you see the damage it can cause" sort of a thing?
Because then I think I will tell her to stick to the f/t mice. (She usually feeds her snake full size prekilled rodents.)

kellum
04-22-2002, 04:23 PM
if your snake is taking f/t , why bother to take a chance. If you want to see animals killing their food watch the discovery channel.

nicky
04-22-2002, 05:01 PM
ya If you want to see nature at it's best watch steve I wouldn't take a chance but then again you are you and I am I. f/t would be a better choce but the choie is yours just be carefull.

Jr Nimeskern
04-22-2002, 10:07 PM
HMMMM im scared to state my own opinion... Im one of those evil ALIVE feeding kind of people... what can I say I havent had any problems with any kind of food AS OF YET!!! that doesnt mean it wont happen to me... I know that one of my snakes takes his food wierd I noticed it when he was eating fuzzys... He just doesnt know how to kill the food correctly! so I feed him F/T my others dont seem to have a problem with killing so I will continue to serve them live food... dont hate on me I LOVE MY CORNS AS MUCH AS ANYONE HERE!!!!!!

Serpwidgets
04-22-2002, 11:43 PM
Is it ok to feed live pinkies sometimes?

Pinks and fuzzies cannot harm a cornsnake, so this is not a concern. :)



my others dont seem to have a problem with killing so I will continue to serve them live food... dont hate on me I LOVE MY CORNS AS MUCH AS ANYONE HERE!!!!!!

Yeah, I love my wife, that's why I beat the hell out of her if dinner isn't on the table when I get home... whatever dude.

You even state that you know tragic consequences may befall your snakes, yet you continue to do so. Actions speak louder than words... and your actions prove that you obviously do NOT love your corns.

It is that attitude that is the reason the HSUS, PETA and other wackos actually have a leg to stand on.

abell82
04-23-2002, 12:39 AM
Feeding live is bad! I see nothing natural about feeding a live mouse to a snake that is caged in a little bitty aquarium with practically no room to move (compared to a wide open prairie).However I do not understand how a hamster can take down a five foot snake with one bite. Espsecially when I have seen other pics of much more damaged snakes that are still alive(most DO later die).Is there something about skull bites?Is it shock?

Simon
04-23-2002, 04:24 AM
well I guess after reading all these posts about feeding live is bad......I think now it's time for you to make a real good decision of whether or not to feed live........
just to let you know.....I too don't feed live......

Rachel
04-23-2002, 05:47 AM
one more thing....Dirty sanchez, if you like nature at it's best then release your cornsnake (well on second thoughts dont cos it probably wont survive after captivity etc) but if you are so hung up on "free nature" than dont keep snakes. Watch Discovery or Animal Planet or go on a trip with Steve n Terri Irwin.
I know you have had a whole bunch of people jump down your throat on this one, and Im not being nasty, but is it really worth risking your snakes life? Not to mention the trauma on the poor mouse, hampster, rat if its a slow kill!!
Ps as for skull trauma....I tink it might just be that bit more severe because you are damaging the brain...think about it, if you fell and broke a leg it would probably heal soon enough. Cracked skull?? Well coma, death, sever motor-neuron impairments would result I would have thought. Dr Mike would know more about that. Im not in the human medical profession, just an educated guess......;)

Jr Nimeskern
04-24-2002, 12:08 AM
alright alright... what is the best way to kill mice? I guess ill try to start feeding prekilled food to my snakes... just to reduce the risk factor of letting the food hurt my beautiful snakes! but whats the best and fastest way to kill mice? I DONT WANT BLOOD ALL AROUND! I cant keep frozen mice... my mom dont like live mice let alone frozen mice in the freezer. :) should I bash their heads in? or drown them or what? Im really lost on this one... any help with this situation would be helpful...

Iris
04-24-2002, 12:47 AM
ok people helped me on this one so I know now..
You can buy CO2 cartridges which will instantly and painlessly kill the mouse. You can also put it in an airtight container and e ventually it will use up all the oxygen in there and replace it with the CO2 which will also kill it but it will take longer. Some people also just put the mouse in the container and put it in the freezer but I know that I don't have the heart to do that....
There is also a way to snap their spines. I think you put a pencil point at the back of the mouse's neck and then pull on the tail. But i'm NOT SURE. Someone else here probably knows.

Serpwidgets
04-24-2002, 01:10 AM
If you scroll down, there's some info on prekilling. :)

http://www.anapsid.org/prekill.html

jim
04-24-2002, 01:15 AM
corny,
do you breed your own mice or do you buy them from a pet store? you can buy them frozen at most pet stores and just thaw and feed them or many stores will do the killing for you. if you can't find prekilled or if you breed your own the best way i think is to use COČ. (less trauma for the mouse this way) good luck!!! ...jim

DirtySanchez
04-24-2002, 04:00 PM
you know what everyone who is all pissy at me about feeding my snake live mice. I just want to tell you all i would watch a nature show but i can't get steve irwin in my dorm room and my snakes or fine and happy i just got to witness them breed and hopefully they will lay eggs and i will have babies(snow x albino)(not sure what kind of albino she is) but anyway i just want to reply to everyone how hates me for feeding my snakes live ones and no will not change

Iris
04-24-2002, 04:11 PM
Well I don't think anyone hates you for feeding live but they just want what is best for your snakes. I don't believe your attitude is helping however. If you are aware of all the possibilities and dangers from feeding live and you choose to continue feeding live, then that's fine. Just don't ever complain or expect sympathy if your snakes ever suffer from wounds caused by a live rodent because you had sufficient warning.

DirtySanchez
04-24-2002, 05:31 PM
sorry to everyone who thinks that i hade an attuide but i didn't have one when i wrote and i don't know and wehter or not you believe me but i do know the dangers of feeding live and the reason i posted my first reply is that i thought ever one has an attuide with me

Matt L
04-24-2002, 10:02 PM
This is the best way to off your mice. Select a plastic container to fit the amount of mice you want to kill. example: large butter tub--up to 6 adult mice. punch one- 1/4 inch hole in the lid(this will let oxygen escape) Take some dry ice and place it in a small cup in the center of the tub(you can glue it in place so the mice don't kick it over). Place your mice in, and fill the cup containing the dry ice with water. Place the lid on the tub. As the dry ice melts (frozen CO2), it will evacuate the oxygen and the mice will quickly suffocate.(similar to the death they would experience from constriction from a snake). This should take about 8 to 10 minutes, but results can vary. If your uncomfortable watching--wait longer. When the mice are dead remove them. As carbon dioxide is a by-product of our breathing,and disipates quickly in a oxygen rich enviroment, it should have no ill effects on your snakes. However you always want your feeders to be room temperature. I must admit, I do support live feeding, and have done so with many of the smaller rodents(mostly mice). In situations where I feared for the my snakes well being, I have done the responsible thing and killed the food. Now If any one finds this to be to much of an aggravation or to complicated, here is the alternative. Grasp rodent by tail, whirl rodent several times in a circle to gain momentum, with the snap off your wrist bash rodents head against a hard surface ,rendering the rodent dead. This will always work, and is not for the weak!(This does not work with hamsters--no flippin tails), besides my children have a pet hamster and I do have a heart!-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Even though I have a sense of humor, I support no animal cruelty--I have spent years volunteering with animal control--and have seen the results-I love all animals--snakes are just my passion!

LizS
04-25-2002, 07:00 AM
The way I do in my mice is also suffocation but without CO2 cartridges or dry ice, and it takes longer. I put the mice in small plastic containers with tightly fitting lids and in 10-15 min they're dead. Pinkies and fuzzies I put in a plastic bag, remove excess air and seal it shut. Larger mice will chew thru plastic bags.

Patty
04-25-2002, 10:48 AM
My corn went 2 months with out eating any of the f/t I offered. Before I resorted to forced feeding, I offered a mouse and the snake had no interest- it wasn't long before the mouse started to bite him. Later, After several forced feeding (vet recommended stuff) I've started him on *young* live mice and /or rats, so they can't fight back and am planning on trying to train him to eat f/t ASAP. Seeing him being bitten is not fun! Luckily, there were no adverse effects, I'm glad/lucky that nothing serious happened.

Patty

monna62
04-25-2002, 06:44 PM
Hi, I have read all the post, and seen the pic of the injured snakes, I won't get my snake till June, and I am not experienced, but it seems to me it would be best to purchase the mice frozen from a supplier. I have found several on the net. I also think my local pet store keeps frozen mice, for purchase. Just seems to be the best solution all around to me.

Iris
04-25-2002, 07:03 PM
It IS, pretty much. They are also cheaper than live unless you breed your own mice. Too much work for me in all honesty. I'm still mostly worried for my snake's safety so...F/T for life!

Patty
04-26-2002, 12:20 PM
when you are looking for a first/new snake - be sure that he ~already~ eats f/t - that's where I got into trouble. Re-training an adult's eating habits is NOT fun.:(

Patty

Missymonkey
04-26-2002, 10:46 PM
has anyone ever tried those snake sausages that are mentioned in the manual?...

jim
04-27-2002, 05:50 AM
missy,
i think you'll find they are quite tasty with just a small dash of worcestershire sauce. mmm mmm good ;)

jim
04-27-2002, 05:52 AM
ok, ignore that last post... was a long night at work tonight :) ---jim

Iris
04-27-2002, 08:34 AM
Missy, I was thinking about trying them but they seem more expensive than mice. At least on the websites I looked at. The t-rex snake sausage things right?
I think I'll stick to mice.

Brian
04-27-2002, 12:13 PM
I feed both frozen and "live". The difference with my "live" mice however is that I "bonk" them first. This consist of a small burlap bag, mouse at the bottom, and then a solid rap against the table.

It's instant, versus 8-10 minutes of suffocation, but also safe for my herps!

I too enjoy all living creatures, but unfortunately for the mouse, they are part of the food chain!

Enjoy and respect!

Peter
04-29-2002, 11:18 AM
Check out this link and if you are brave or have a strong stomach, check out the link to the picture.


http://www.proexotics.com/FAQ_answers_Why_do_you_suggest_feeding_thawed.html

Missymonkey
04-29-2002, 02:25 PM
Anyone ever try those snake sausages that are in the manual?
Or know where to find them?

Elaphe_Mo
04-29-2002, 02:35 PM
I've only ever seen them once at a pet store that specialized in exotics. That's out of several exotics/reptile specialist pet shops, and tons of reptile shows. I've never tried them, I guess I've been lucky I've never had a problem feeding f/t.

Iris
04-29-2002, 03:08 PM
you can get them online..
type "T rex snake steak sausages" or something similar to that in any search engine and it will give you a whole bunch of results. I looked them up when I was trying to decide whether or not to buy those but I figured I'd just stick to f/t mice.

Brian
04-29-2002, 09:41 PM
Nasty pic of that poor snake. I'm sure that happens in the wild more than we think, but it is in-excusable in a contained environment.

But, as cruel as it may seem, I still believe in the pre-killed versue thawed. Although I use both, if I had to choose, the warm meal over the frozen dinner anytime!

Respect and enjoy

Peter
04-29-2002, 09:56 PM
Frozen dinners aren't so bad, when I heat them up enough, they strike them and wrap just like they are live.

Iris
04-30-2002, 12:31 AM
Yep I put the mice in hot (not boiling! eww) water before I give them to my snake and he acts like they're live since they're all warm and I actually don't think he really cares whether he gets pre killed or just f/t mice. As long as he gets something in his stomach. Haha sounds like my philosophy.

Khaman
04-30-2002, 01:27 AM
None of mine have ever objected to f/t then again none of mine have ever objected to live either.

lynn
04-30-2002, 02:14 AM
Just had a look at the pic, really nasty, the difference is though out in the wild there is plenty of space so the prey has a chance to escape it's not going to hang around to attack the snake, unless of course the snake has taken it wrong. But everyone to their own if you are feeding live just be very careful.

Iris
04-30-2002, 04:55 AM
I just went to that link that Peter provided above and at the end of the page, it says NOT to thaw rodents in hot water. Why not?? I thought that was the way to do it. Here is what it says:
One last thing, a note on THAWING your feeders. Don?t be a doofus. Thawing frozen mice in a cup of hot water only takes you back to the old days of rotten, slimy mice. Thaw your rodents on a plastic lid, or some newspaper, at room temperature, it doesn?t take long at all. If you must use hot water for that "quick thaw" at least put the feeder in a Ziploc bag! Seal it up, thaw it out, and when you feed it, it is still dry! And appetizing! Ok, that?s a relative term, but this whole paper is about your animal, not you, so do what is best for them! Feed smart, feed healthy, feed thawed prey!

Is it really bad to thaw mice out in hot water? I thaw all of Xavier's pinkies out in a cup of hot water and the mice don't seem slimy and rotten.
..
Maybe that site is just talkinga bout personal preference and opinion.

LizS
04-30-2002, 09:27 AM
Iris, I had read that link some time ago about not thawing in hot water. I was puzzled too, as that is not my experience. I thaw my mice in a plastic bag that I immerse in warm (almost too warm to the touch) water. The mice stay dry and after a little while they are thawed and warm. It takes longer to thaw adult mice, obviously, and I add more hot water to the bath every so often to maintain a warm temperature. I think it's important to keep the mice dry, it seems the snakes prefer them that way and the smell is not washed away (it's less disgusting to the human handler, too).

About pre-killed vs. thawed: my corns don't care one way or the other, but my boa sure thinks there is a world of difference, even with the thawed mouse warmed to body temperature, and coming from the same colony as the pre-killed one. I guess she inherited her dislike for leftovers from me...

Elaphe_Mo
04-30-2002, 10:12 AM
I've always thawed my mice out in a cup (or now bucket) of warm water. I always dry them with a paper towel and with the bigger mice I let them sit under a heat lamp for a few minutes to dry off more. I've never had a problem with it. In fact I think the little guys sometimes prefer their pinkies washed. Plus, it helps clean off bits of bedding or other things that sometimes are sticking to the mice. Just my $0.02

Iris
04-30-2002, 04:44 PM
Hm...well I supposed for pinkies it doesn't really matter too much but larger rodents will have fur/hair and stuff and I guess they will hold a lot of water as well as all the water that seeps into the mouse.
I will have to try Liz's method of putting a mouse in a bag and then into the hot water when my snake is big enough to eat rodents with fur. Or like Mo said, let them dry out for a little under a lamp. Thanks :)

kenalotia
04-30-2002, 07:02 PM
I use the plastic Zip-Loc bag in hot water method to thaw mice, too. One time, though, there must have been a little hole in the bag that I didn't notice. When I took the bag out, the mouse was wet. Not soaked like it had been directly in the water, but definitely wet. The water sure didn't wash away the scent -- that mouse was the stinkiest one ever! And Frank seemed very happy to have it, just like always. :)

Peter
04-30-2002, 09:14 PM
I always double bag them and then reuse the outer bag. :D

Iris
05-01-2002, 05:42 AM
Oh that's a funny story..
And that's a good idea, Peter

I keep forgetting that the smell of my pinkies will be NOTHING compared to the smell of actual furry mice. And to think my mom can't stand the thought of little baby mice in the freezer let alone big adult full grown ones in a few years. ;)

niki
04-18-2004, 06:09 PM
i can barely feed the frozen mice they look so cute my cat thinks so to when im thawing them hes been known steal the odd one yuk

MegF.
04-18-2004, 07:33 PM
I thaw my adult mice directly in hot water, and lightly dry them with a paper towel. Both of my snakes readily take them.

stuart
04-19-2004, 08:18 AM
Isnt it illegal to feed anythng live mice. im from the UK, maybe its different in america, is it illegal ?

Skye
04-19-2004, 12:16 PM
Stuart,

in the USA feeding of live is not illegal, and is the choice of the owner.

in the UK the rules are rather more strict, although slightly ambiguous. You are not allowed to train animals to hunt live, but you can feed live in certain circumstances I believe such as if they refuse anything else. Hence, if you can get your snake eating frozen/thawed or freshly prekilled, you have to take that option.

Skye

niki
04-19-2004, 06:53 PM
i agree what the hell is natural about taking a live mouse and putting it in with the snake, its artificial . Why cause unnecessary stress to another animal and potentially to your own if injury occurs.

Spitfire
04-19-2004, 07:43 PM
I'm going to stay neutral on this issue. Even though I feed f/t myself, I really don't believe people that feed live should be critisized about how they are a bad herp keeper and such. If after knowing all the consequences and they want to feed live, it's their choice wheter it's just to see the snake kill the mouse or for other reasons. As a herper, they have made the decision to feed live and we who feed f/t shouldn't always be butting in their way saying that feeding live is bad. It's just one of those things that you have to see both sides to understand.

CornCrazy
04-19-2004, 08:05 PM
I agree with you. I wholeheartedly support feeding F/T, though. I do have one snake that absolutely will not eat F/T or fresh-killed. She gets live...

Taceas
04-19-2004, 08:30 PM
I agree Spitfire, wholeheartedly. I consider myself a combination feeder for the most part. I don't feed live adult mice unless absolutely necessary. I use f/t adults or pre-kill my own stock for feeding my adult snakes.

My younger snakes (hatchlings up to yearlings) get live pinks on up to crawlers, which are fully haired but still have their eyes closed. Even then I supervise every feeding and if a problem arises, I'll take the appropriate measures to correct it. But once the baby mice have their eyes open, I do pre-kill or I freeze my own food.

I've found my snakes tend to regurge a whole lot less..and actually don't regurge at all on live prey. Whereas the frozen/thawed I have will generally give me 1-2 regurges per feeding session. Maybe I have a bad batch of mice that I ordered, who knows.

I've also found that my growth rates increased with feeding live prey to my younger snakes. It seems that the frozen food was merely tiding them over without giving them any nutrients with which to grow. Once I got them started on live, they grow like weeds.

But make no mistake I don't feel irresponsible for feeding live to my younger snakes. I don't take thrill in watching a baby mouse that I watched being born and raised having the life squeezed from its body. I take all precautions to minimize the already small threat of a problem occuring. But once the mice have their eyes open I generally feel that their teeth are developed enough to do damage, so I don't take the risk beyond that point unless absolutely necessary. And I think the few people I've befriended on this forum and in this hobby can back up those statements.

I know we all try to do whats best for our snakes (and everyone else's as well). But sometimes you just cannot talk reason into a tree stump. Once people have made up their mind, they've made up their minds and there's nothing you nor I can do to change that. Its better to spend the time hoping that every meal that their snake has is an uneventful one.

CornCrazy
04-20-2004, 06:21 AM
I wanted to elaborate on my post above. I didn't really have the time to when I first posted.

As stated in my post above, I prefer feeding F/T to my snakes in order to minimize the risk to my snakes. I will feed live when necessary and have on occasion thought about switching completely to live. Everytime I consider it, I weigh out the pros and cons. The cons always win out and I stick to F/T.

I feel that, while it is good for us to suggest that other people feed F/T, we can't force our opinions on them. I get very tired of seeing people get bashed because they choose to feed live prey to their snakes. I think it is an individual decision.

I also want to point out something about the pictures and stories that people have posted regarding snakes that have been injured or killed due to feeding live prey...those incidences are very rare if the feedings are supervised. The picture of the snake that had been totally mauled by the rat...that owner HAD to of left the rat in with the snake unsupervised. Even the story about the hamster killing the snake wasn't a good scenario...the live prey should not all be dropped in at once. If a person is feeding live, only one mouse/rat should be placed in with the snake in order to lessen the risk of anything bad happening. Just a thought...what if all of those other hamsters hadn't been distracting the snake? Would the snake have been more successful at getting his chosen prey?

Once people have made up their mind, they've made up their minds and there's nothing you nor I can do to change that. Its better to spend the time hoping that every meal that their snake has is an uneventful one.
AMEN TO THAT!!!

moreptiles
04-20-2004, 01:36 PM
I think one bit of advice might help those who have a snake that refuses to eat f/t mice. Try feeding pinky or fuzzy rats. You get a meal that is the right size, but with no danger of injury to the snake. Then wean them to f/t. You might also find it easier to wean the snake to f/t rats than to f/t mice.

I have another caution about rats. Be careful if you decide to breed rats along with mice. It seems that rats are very prone to a respiratory infection, and this will infect your mouse colony and make them infertile. If you get rats to breed, quarantine them, and check for sneezing, and get rid of them if they are sneezers.

Mark

mykal
04-21-2004, 12:32 AM
i feed F/t to my corn. I take tem from the freezer (in a sandwich baggie) let it sit out to defrost for a while and then run it under warm water to get it a bit warm. No problemsm feeding.

Spitfire
04-21-2004, 07:47 AM
Not to be rude or anything but, we were actually talking about why you should or shold not feed live and not whether you feed f/t or live. There have also been many past threads about that topic.

stuart
04-21-2004, 10:35 AM
shup spit fire, your just trying to get your posts up, if it was your thread then fair enough post that, put what started out as a simple thread has turned into a great thread, and good to read,

Taceas
04-21-2004, 04:23 PM
I'm pretty sure "shup" is a typo for shut-up. If so, then I think that you're entirely out of line, Stuart.

I agree that Spitfire's post was a little bit coarse, but people can and do make mistakes. It's a part of life.

Spitfire's other post was completely in line with this thread. Had you read the way people who feed live were verbally bashed, then maybe you would see the relevance of his post. He wrote a very well thought out post, and now you're bashing him for apparently supporting his fellow herpers in whatever method they choose feed their snakes with.

And as far as getting his post number up? For what? Rich disabled the posting to change your title. If it were a means to get his number up, then it'd be some silly little post about nothing at all. Maybe it's the whole fact that he has more posts than you. Well then, you need to start lashing out at most of the forum. Hmm?

Maybe in Britain they have a law that forbids people from rational free-thinking, as well as the choice of what prey to feed their snakes.

Spitfire
04-21-2004, 04:45 PM
In all seriousness though, why on Earth would I want to up my post number. You do know that there is no prize or anything for that. If anything, posts take up space. Also mykal, I apoplogize if that sounded mean, it wasn't my intent. And stuart, why do you have to start wars with other members for no reason? This is the second time you've started bashing on me for nothing since you got here.

SNAKESRCOOL
04-21-2004, 05:53 PM
Being in the UK I use f/t by default, I understand why we are discouraged from using live as it puts the reptiles in danger and sometimes snakes don't make a clean kill and cause the mouse suffering. I'm not sure if it's actually illegal here but I do know that we are allowed to feed live if a snake won't take anything else.