Please help, a decision has to be made!

[LindsayMarie]

Sassy my bloodred is still refusing. Even in the small cozier container. I guess I am down to a few options as she is starting to look real small and thin.

1.) Go out and buy some more petco f/t pinks in hopes that she realizes its the same brand she ate on 3 different occasions with me. VERY random and chances arent good for $1.40 a piece.

2.) Go out and try and find anole skin to scent a pinky with, which may be a difficult task. Not to mention I dont know what good it will do as she shows no interest in a washed pinky or shedded bearded dragon skin.

3.) Try and buy a anole to feed her? Doubt she could get it down, she isnt that big? Plus disease? The price on them is high as they are sold as pets, not feeders. What if she doesnt eat it, then I have a pet I am not that interested in having!

4.) Buy a live pinky :( This is very hard on me, but if I have to do it, I have to do it. I will not be happy about it though.

I believe these are the only options I have left. I know most say wait 7-10 days then offer. Wait 5-7 before offering again, but we are talking about a small hatchling here. One who has obviously lost weight and will continue too as her temps are in the 80's so her metabolism is actively working with no food to digest. I would cool her but she just doesnt have the bulk to live through a brumation I dont think.

Another option is to find someone on here who is very reptuable and close by (driving distance) who can get her going for me, for a fee of course??!! Her appetite needs stimulated and I have no idea how to do it! I dont know how to force feed and with one her size it would freak me out. Killing live mice makes me cry....lol This is sooooo stressful! I am sure its just as stressful to those of you who have been following the story! Thanks for sticking with me and helping though. Any advice. Looks like I am down to the wire here. Thank you, Lindsay

[Jessicat]

Have you been cutting slits in your f/t? Doing so changes my reluctant snake's feeding responses from hiding at the top of the feed box to instantly wolfing down their meal.

[Roy Munson]

At this stage, I think a 3-4 day wait between attempts would be appropriate. I would try slitting (as suggested) and braining on the next attempt. Poke a hole in the pink's head with a knife or paper clip, squeeze some of the fluid out, and smear it down to the nose.

If that doesn't work, try live next. Personally, I'd try live before any lizard or lizard-scenting options. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, snakes may not be a great choice for a pet if you can't handle the idea of live feeding. I don't like it because it's inconvenient, but you can hardly label a snake as a problem feeder because its food preference is for live prey. I'm sure scavenging occurs to SOME degree in the wild, but I'll bet it's pretty rare. I'm always thankfully amazed that the majority of corns will accept f/t at all.

Remember, even when you get a corn started on f/t, there's always a chance that one day they'll suddenly refuse it and demand live. They'll usually switch back to f/t eventually, but this can take a while. It's happened to me on a number of occasions.

Good luck.

[PtDnsr]

I'd second trying live next. If you've tried everything else (washing, slits, braining, etc) I'd try live. I hate feeding live but if it means keeping my pet alive I'll do it. Not to mention live feeding is much easier IMO than trying to scent a pink every time.

~Katie

[LindsayMarie]

I thought live was going to be my next/only option. I have tried braining, once by putting small slit in the head and another time by poking up through the nose and let it drip all over the nose. What exactly is slitting?

I realize what you are saying about why get snakes if you cant handle live feeding, but that fact is most are raised with f/t and rarely need live anymore. I am sure there are many more people then me who would prefer not to feed live but WILL in order to keep our snakes eating. Doesnt mean we need to like it, you know. I have not labeled the bloodred a problem feeder because she will only eat live. Fact is I dont even know if she will eat live! I havent tried yet. She ate 2 times f/t in the first week I got her. Then went on a 3 1/2 week fast. Then ate a special brand pinky I went and bought, which was the brand originally eaten in the first week. After that she is now refusing even that brand! I have tried numerous techniques, in between. But its getting to the point where feeding time with her is nothing buy annoying and stressful and you know they must pick up on that. So I was thinking maybe try something else before she becomes too accustomed to refusing. Basically I just want to know what each of you would do in my situation? What step would you take next? I can take pictures, post more info, whatever you need just let me know. Thank you, Lindsay

ps. On a happy note. Her brother finally ate his small fuzzy without it needing to be washed for the first time!!! Of course its only been the first time, so I will know better in the next couple feedings if I am done with prewashing, but this is some progress! He didnt eat for the first almost 2 weeks I had him. Then I tried washing with johnsons baby bar soap and it kicked his appetite in. After many meals washed I finally tried not washing last night and he ate it! I was amazed. I felt a sense of accomplishment, like he is going to be ok. Just wish me luck he continues to go forward and now all I need to do is find his sisters trigger! Thats why I am posting on here. To get experienced keepers opinions and HELP! THANKS.

[Flagg]

What would I do? try a live pinky. Would have done that a while back, but I breed them myself so they're usually around. And no, I don't usually feed them live, only when they refuse FT a couple times.

[Roy Munson]

I realize what you are saying about why get snakes if you cant handle live feeding, but that fact is most are raised with f/t and rarely need live anymore.I understand. But I don't know if I would say that they rarely require live, especially sub-adults and younger. I'd estimate that I've had to feed live to 10-15% of the corns I've owned, at one point or another when they were young.

I am sure there are many more people then me who would prefer not to feed live but WILL in order to keep our snakes eating. Doesnt mean we need to like it, you know. Yeah, I'm one of them! And no one said you had to like it. ;) I don't care about it from an emotional perspective; I've seen live rodents do much worse to each other than any snake would bother doing (filthy, evil creatures). But the fact that live is 6 to 15 times more expensive for me (depending on size) makes f/t a MUCH better option for me.

I have not labeled the bloodred a problem feeder because she will only eat live. Fact is I dont even know if she will eat live! I know, I know! :)

Slitting is when you take a blade or sharp scissors and cut through the skin of the pink. Different people do different things, but usually you slit the skin on the pinks' backs. Three lateral snips to the back with scissors should do it.

[LindsayMarie]

What would I do? try a live pinky. Would have done that a while back, but I breed them myself so they're usually around. And no, I don't usually feed them live, only when they refuse FT a couple times.

Do you find that once you feed live they are reluctant to go back to f/t? Or just the opposite, it kicks starts them again and they take the f/t next feeding or two?

[LindsayMarie]

Dean, I guess I got the wrong impression with most breeders selling snakes on frozen thawed and advocating f/t. I never really thought that they were feeding both to get them started? Guess it doesnt really matter! Like I said I am pretty new to snakes. I have been reading on corns since 2002, but just bought my first 4 this October, so I am still learning, ALOT!

I have not tried the back slitting or snipping. I can probably try one or two more things then live by next weekend. If live doesnt work, I will be completely at a loss for ideas. I may give in and try live this weekend, depends on how she is looking and acting. I feel bad as she is in a smaller container, mostly in the dark, not handled (but I guess that is what she wants and whats best right)?

I dont understand this, I really dont. She ate the originally two f/t pinks in the first week with vigor and since then nothing. No interest, except that fluke day on 10/30 when she 'gave in'.

[Flagg]

I've found that feeding them a live mouse or pink seems to "kickstart" them as you put it, and they usually eat FT after that.

Not sure if you answered this, but have you checked the temps in your viv? are you using a thermometer with a probe under the substrate over the UTH to make saure its not too hot down there?

[LindsayMarie]

Yeah there is another post with all the specifics. Its under "I feel awful". Kind of been an ongoing thing. I use a digital thermometer w/ probe from radio shack. Measures 80-84, more around 82+ now.

If I buy this live tiny pinky. It has a long 20+ minute drive home all by itself in a box or bag (?). Then what if she completely ignores it in her cage for hours? Cold, scared, lonely, hungry. Awww.... see why I hate this part! :awcrap: :cry: :crying: Makes me feel like :devil01:

Well...Have to do what I have to do. But first things first. Buying 3 more petco pinks (the ones she has eaten 3 times sporadically). Trying one tomorrow or Sunday with a couple small slits in the back and maybe a little 'juice' out the nose. After that I think on Wed I will try cutting it in half horizontally, leaving both head and body in there? no? I dont think I tried this. Then depending how she looks weight wise I will either try the 3rd one scented with anole (if I can find one), or just go live. I may at any time just decide to go live. I am like that. Does anyone here have a pet anole who they use to scent their pinkies?LOL I mean would that work, or is it that you need the anole skin or the anole dead and frozen?

Thanks for all the help. I will keep everyone updated on the little lady. Wish me tons of luck.

[LindsayMarie]

Here is a picture of the little fiesty one, Sassy. This pic was taken 10/19 the day she shed. 13 days into her hunger strike. She still looked good here. Now its been 5 weeks and a day with just that one lucky feeding on 10/30. I am so worried, which I am sure you all know by now. I love her to death, I dont want to lose her :(

[Flagg]

If you are currently feeding in the tank, you might want to try in a small feeding tub or the deli cup the snake came in if there is one. Some people feed in a paper bag. Something small and confined so the snake is right there with the food and can't hide and ignore it. If it is fed on substrate it could ingest substrate and get impacted.

[CornCrazy]

You can also try live scented. Sometimes when I have to start a hatchling on live, it can be a bit difficult to switch them over to F/T. I use the bedding from one of my mouse tanks to scent the pinks with in some cases. I take the thawed pink out of the warm water and put it into some stinky bedding and shake it around. I usually let the mouse stay in the bedding for about 5 minutes. Then I take it out (trying not to touch it much with my hands and gently wipe/pick the shavings off of it. If the snake will take it like this, I repeat several scented feedings, then try a plain F/T. If the snake doesn't take the non-scented one after about an hour, I scent it. Most of the time, the snakes will switch over. Your local pet store may look at you a bit funny when you ask for some dirty mouse bedding, but it'll be worth it if this technique works for you!

As for lizard-scenting, you can buy a large anole and freeze it to use for scenting. I keep some in my freezer for that purpose. You simply thaw it out when you need it, open the anole's mouth, and then swab the f/t pinks head around in the mouth. Anole saliva works the best in my opinion.

Good luck!

[Cflaguy]

pinky. The one hatchling I kept this year only eats them live. I will continue to give live until he gets old enough to accept full grown mice. Then if need be, I'll whack the mice and give them fresh killed. If timed correctly, movement of a fresh kill will simulate enough movement to fool a snake. Some folks, Diamondlil I'm saying, pumped her snake for a year as I remember. Now she eats on her own. Snake not Lil.
I like mice and rats as much as the next animal person. But these rodents are bred for one reason, to feed reptiles. How is different if it is alive or dead? Does it makes us feel better? BTW, ever been frozen? Not a pleasant thing. Slow lingering death. Of course I'll admit I don't know how they perform euthanasia on a mouse for freezing.
Good luck, I hope it works out which ever route you go. Bloodreds are beautiful snakes.

[SunnyDelight]

i had a problem feeder hatchling too. for the first 5 weeks i had him i tried all the tricks of the trade. nothing. even live. so i gave him back to the breeder to see if he could help and somehow he got him to eat 2 live pinks. for the next 10 months he would turn his nose up at anything dead (even freshly killed and twitching). finally (when i decided he was too big for pinks) i gave him a f/t fuzzy and he took it no hesitation.
maybe it's the fur? i dunno but now he eats f/t fuzzies with abandon so maybe you just have to stick it out with live (if she will take them) until she can eat fuzzies and maybe you will get lucky too

GOOD LUCK and don't give up on her :) she's beautiful.

[MegF.]

All my hatchlings were fed live until they were large enough to take the normal f/t size. There was nothing small enough in the f/t for them. All but five switched easily over to f/t. Three would only take live. 2 others only took one live meal and refused everything else for 2 1/2 months until I went to Anole scented. I ended up spending $7, bought an anole, cooled it in the fridge and then froze it. I used it over and over again and would just put it back in the freezer each time. Of those 2, one is now taking unwashed, unscented f/t pinkies, the other is taking unwashed, scented f/t pinkies. The last one that refused to eat had to be euthanized as it never took a meal on it's own and was starving to death. I felt it was the most humane. Personally, I'd try live and then gradually work it on to f/t once you've got the weight back on. If live doesn't work, I'd try getting an anole and rubbing it's saliva on a washed f/t pinky. If all else fails, try holding the snake in your hand. I had to have a problem feeder returned to me to work with and I found the only time it would eat, was when I held it cupped in my hand. Don't ask me why, but I've had a few like that. Try it just for the heck of it!

[LindsayMarie]

I went to petco tonight and bought 3 very small f/t pinkies. They come in a package of 3 for $4.50 (called Gourmet Rodent), very pricy especially when I am forced to buy the smallest ones as she wont eat anything larger then a newly born, almost premature looking one?! Anyways, brought them home, warmed one up, put it in her cage, closed the lid and put her back up on the shelf. Just checked on her couple hours later and its gone. She has a TINY lump in her belly, but it is something! YES! Pleeeaaasee keep it down Sas. No :-puke01: Why she has this fascination with this brand of f/t mice I dont know? has anyone else experienced this before. Will I eventually be able to get her to eat the ones I buy in bulk?

For now she has ate!! I will continue to keep you updated at least until she is out of the woods and dont be surprised if I have more questions/concerns :) THANK YOU!

[MegF.]

It may be they are cleaned quite a bit. I noticed that when I had to buy them that they are in individual packs sort of stewing in their own juices. The mice I get from my rodent supplier smell very much like...well....mice. Maybe the scent isn't as strong. I would just keep at the ones she will eat and then gradually wean her towards the other. It could be she's just a picky eater. My Okeetees were like that for a long time. Eating once, then not eating for a week or two. Now they always eat.

[CornCrazy]

You could always buy directly from the Gormet Rodent:

http://www.gourmetrodent.com/

It may save you some money.

[LindsayMarie]

Here is an updated picture of Sassy! Since I last posted she has ate around a half dozen more times! She still requires gourmet rodent, size small pinkies, why I dont know? But when I try anything different she refuses. So for now until she gets caught up to her brother who is twice her weight and 4 inches longer, I am going to let her endulge in gourmets...lol I am just glad she is eating now and I am even able to handle her a little here and there! She is such a peanut compared to the other 3 now. She just needs some extra feedings and I am sure she will be well on her way.... What can I say, shes spoiled. Just like the rest of my pet family members! ;)

She has shed once since the pic on the first page of this thread. So not a HUGE change in these new pics, although I think she is starting to show beautiful colors, decent diffusion. A couple more sheds and I will post again, unless a dramatic change occurs before then! Let me know what you think!

[MegF.]

she's looking beautiful. Hope she keeps going for you and that she gets off the expensive mice! Until I found my mouse supplier I had to buy those once. I almost fainted at the price! I'd go broke feeding my entire collection on those things...

[Jack B]

[QUOTE=!

I have not tried the back slitting or snipping. I can probably try one or two more things then live by next weekend. If live doesnt work, I will be completely at a loss for ideas. I may give in and try live this weekend, depends on how she is looking and acting. I feel bad as she is in a smaller container, mostly in the dark, not handled (but I guess that is what she wants and whats best right)?

.[/QUOTE]

Thought I'd share this with you just in case it might help. I'm no expert and have never had a non-feeder

Recently my little corn had a regurge, which I realize is a completely different situation than a non-feeder, but to get her past it I had to go to smaller meals. I got small frozen pinkys from gourmet mice at petco and cut them completely in half before thawing. What I noticed with the cut in half pinks is that she was like a little shark on a feeding frenzy when she smelled that blood. The one she regurged was a live one I fed her because I couldn't find any frozen in my area. I had to show her the live one, guiding her nose right to it before she would eat it. No so with the cut in half ones. As soon as I lower them in to her she is right on it and afterwards she stays around to rub her nose in the blood on the paper towel.

So if nothing else works get one of those real small frozen pinks at Petco and cut it in half. Might be Worth a try.

[Weebonilass]

Until just recently, my guy has lived for five years on Gourmet Rodent... it just didn't seem like a lot of money, esp. when I consider the cost of feeding my horse :D

[MegF.]

Until just recently, my guy has lived for five years on Gourmet Rodent... it just didn't seem like a lot of money, esp. when I consider the cost of feeding my horse :D
I agree with you there, but I don't think I'd want to feed 40 or more babies every 4-5 days on them when I can get them to eat pinkies that are less than half the price. When you own a horse, you have no extra money!

[LindsayMarie]

Luckily I just have her that prefers gourmet!LOL I wonder what it is they do so differently that picky snakes prefer them? Ideally someday she will switch over to the bulk mice that the others eat with no problem. If not, I guess I will buy bulk from gourmetrodent.com for her! I will just vaccuum seal them in small bunches. Not a big deal.

Thanks for the help Jack, but she is finally eating now. Has been for awhile *knock on wood*. She really wasnt/isnt a problem feeder, she just wants gourmet rodent pinks. She never refused them, it just took me a month plus to realize, hey lets try what she ate with vigor in the beginning and tada, it worked! She held out and refused all the non gourmet pinks until I went and bought what I originally fed her in the beginning (gourmet rodent pinks from petco). She is Sassy, what can I say! :) She had me so worried, she still is tiny compared to her sibling. Now that she is eating regularly I am hoping she takes off :sidestep: hehe