Slight digestion concern

[Shade]

I fed Samael, my black ratsnake, about four days ago. He took one large pinky, and another smaller one. They left a fairly large lump in his belly. Over the course of the past four days that lump has diminished greatly, but there's still a slight one left. Is it normal for it to take this long to digest two pinkies, or should I be concerned?

There have been no regurges, and he's pooped twice since he was fed. No changes in behavior, either.

edit: The temps are aprx. 83F on the warm side, and 75F on the cool side.

Thanks,
Jake

[Roy Munson]

Hmmm. That's a long time to still see a lump, especially when feeding pinkies. Your temps sound good. I haven't had great luck with feeding young snakes multiple prey items per feeding. A hatchling would seem to be taking two pinks without a problem for a few feedings, then puke one up on the next feeding. I always thought of it as them getting "backed up". I don't feed that way anymore. The frozen f/t I buy has a fairly large range of sizes within the specified sizes (small pink, large pink, fuzzy, etc.). So I can usually keep scaling up prey size without resorting to multiple feedings. I speak only from my own experiences; others claim to have no problem with multiple prey feedings. Feeding frequency plays a large part too. I'd rather go with a little higher frequency than with large meals at lower frequency. :shrugs:

There's not much you can do now except wait. Even if he digest completely, you might want to consider avoiding multiple prey.

I fed Samael, my black ratsnake, about four days ago. He took one large pinky, and another smaller one. They left a fairly large lump in his belly. Over the course of the past four days that lump has diminished greatly, but there's still a slight one left. Is it normal for it to take this long to digest two pinkies, or should I be concerned?

There have been no regurges, and he's pooped twice since he was fed. No changes in behavior, either.

edit: The temps are aprx. 83F on the warm side, and 75F on the cool side.

Thanks,
Jake

[Weebonilass]

I'm one of those that fed multiple prey at every five days to two different snakes without any problem as that was what I was told to do at the time. But a lump never took that long to disappear, so I would agree with Roy that you might want to avoid multiples.

[Shade]

Today is day five since he had his last meal. According to the records Dawn gave me, he has been on a five day feeding schedule, and has handled two pinkies a few times prior to my adopting him.

I'm starting to wonder if this might be more than just slow digestion..

pics are attached. Maybe I'm just imagining things?

[Roy Munson]

No, you're not just imagining it; there's a lump there. Has there been sort of a thick spot there since before his last feeding? It could be a build-up resulting from a population explosion of harmful parasitic bacteria/worms. You said he was from a survivor from a wild clutch, and these are know to harbor such things. It does resemble the "lump" look that snakes get when they're infected with cryptosporidium. Only a vet could tell for sure. I don't mean this to be a "the sky is falling" reply, but crypto is serious and incurable.

Whatever you do, I'd keep this snake FAR from your corn. Good luck. I really hope it's nothing.

[Weebonilass]

Yup, I definitely see the lump and would also recommend finding a herp vet to examine him.

[Shade]

Oh, Jesus. Just what I need.

Would the lump have just developed after this last feeding? He didn't have it when he arrived here.

The lump is soft and slightly squishy to the touch - just like the rest of his body.

[Roy Munson]

Oh, Jesus. Just what I need.

Would the lump have just developed after this last feeding? He didn't have it when he arrived here.

The lump is soft and slightly squishy to the touch - just like the rest of his body.
I'm no expert in crypto, or other parasites, but I wouldn't think that the lump would just appear overnight. If I recall correctly, a crypto lump would feel more solid, but that's no real indicator. If the lump isn't gone in a week or two, you'll have some decisions to make. I don't think the tests for regular parasites are that expensive, but the crypto tests are, and they have to be performed repeatedly. I know you intended to release this snake in the spring, so you may want to consider keeping things business as usual until then, and carry out that plan. If you choose to do this, it will be critical that you do not share utensils, feeding tubs, or anything else between this snake and your corn. I would never clean or handle the corn after having done so with this snake, and I would observe strict sanitary measures.

[Shade]

Thanks very much for your advice, I'll keep this thead updated on progress.

I tried emailing Dawn, to see if she could shed some light on the situation, considering she had the snake long before I did, but apparently her email account no longer exists.

Should I skip this week's feeding, and see if that does anything? Or would I be better off acting like everything is normal. I'm pretty sure that if I pull together the rest of my christmas money, I'll be able to afford a vet visit or two.

[Roy Munson]

You may want to try sending Dawn a private message on this site. She might not respond immediately, but it's worth a shot.

I'd give him until next Saturday before I attempted another feeding, just to give that lump some time to disappear (or not). A fecal exam wouldn't be that expensive, but it won't tell you for sure if the snake has crypto. I think I've read that the 3-test series for crypto is around $300. Hopefully that won't be necessary. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Thanks very much for your advice, I'll keep this thead updated on progress.

I tried emailing Dawn, to see if she could shed some light on the situation, considering she had the snake long before I did, but apparently her email account no longer exists.

Should I skip this week's feeding, and see if that does anything? Or would I be better off acting like everything is normal. I'm pretty sure that if I pull together the rest of my christmas money, I'll be able to afford a vet visit or two.

[Shade]

Well, I've just got done cleaning the entire vivarium. I washed it out, replaced the aspen with paper towel, cleaned everything from the hides to the thermometer, and I've put a towel over it and isolated it. I'm gonna leave him alone for a few days, and then I'll check on him and report any changes.

Hopefully this turns out to be nothing. I really love the little guy =/

[dawnrenee2000]

My email account was simply down over the weekend due to switching email host servers. Don't worry, I am certainly still here. the snake did not have any lumps or issues before you picked him up and was of seemingly perfect condition so I imagine this is simply an odd digestion. Skip the next feeding and see if the lump changes . I will be in contact with you and you can now email me or call.

Regards

[dawnrenee2000]

Further more , just to save face on this because i feel like this thread could be misleading....

These snakes were of very good health otherwise I would not have adopted out one of them. I was simply trying to do something nice for a kid who wanted a rat snake, not necesarily wanting to get rid of them for any particular reason. They were captive born and have been raised with a perfectly healthy collection of 55 other animals , so no..I don't think there is a case of crypto or big disease here. I think we have a digestion issue since the lump has formed so suddenly.

Secondly, as I said my email server was just down for the weekend. Jake could have called me , which he did this evening finally. I was not avoiding anyone, I just didnt have my email working.

Thirdly, I will take this animal back if there are any health concerns at all and address them myself. No one will be paying vet bills but me if there is any issue here.

I just wanted to clarify those things as this posts could be taken wrong by some and my reputation damaged for no reason. In this hobby/business, that is all we have. I know there was no ill intent with the writing of the post but since i was away for a few days and could not respond in the conversation...well you know ...peoples imaginations can run wild.

Regards,

[DogStar5988]

So what was the problem? Did you ever figure it out?!? Just curious :)

[dawnrenee2000]

The snake is back in my care now. Jake did a fine job of caring for him but simply stumbled upon this issue when he fed a larger meal and paid more attention to the snake thereafter than I had. ( I don't mess with the babies much..just let them eat and grow without much handling)

Upon further examinations and trial feedings it appears to have a kink in his intestinal track that makes digestion of large meals very difficult. He could grow out of this issue, and otherwise is perfectly healthy and more than willing to take whatever food is offered so he is being housed in a higher temps and only being given smaller sized meals to help get through this issue. He is able to digest and pass the food , but does so a bit slower than normal. The higher temps help him in this area.

[Roy Munson]

I'm glad you isolated the cause of this, Dawn. I wonder how many snakes this kind of problem afflicts. Thanks for posting this. I'm so crypto-paranoid that I sometimes overlook the thousand other things that cause digestive problems. :rolleyes:

[dawnrenee2000]

In the eggs these snakes experienced trauma and were flipped all around several weeks before they hatched , so I imagine this has something to do with that physical trauma during the last stages of development. I feel bad for the little guy but will do all I can for him and leave the rest to nature.

[dawnrenee2000]

Well, this little guy didnt make it. :awcrap:

I found him passed away peacefully under his favorite hide. He continued to have issues with abdominal swelling and could not keep down food well. Sometimes the swelling would go down completely and then the next day it would be swollen again for no reason.

He ate last week and held it down, but something inside of him was just too wrong. Nature took it's course.

My thanks to Jake for bringing the issue to my attention and putting forth his efforts as well.

[diamondlil]

That's so sad, but you did all you could for him

[Nanci]

Sorry to hear that, but I think he would have had a difficult life if he'd have lived. It's for the best. Poor little guy.

Nanci

[dawnrenee2000]

Yes Nanci, I totally agree but I wanted to give him every chance possible to live a decent life , thus I didn't euthanize. I probably should have euthanized a few weeks ago, but I have such a hard time giving up on things , so I kept my tiny hopes that there could be a turn around.

On the positive scale of things. I turned his little body over to the vet clinic. They will do an analysis on him and use him as a tool to teach their vet techs more about working on small snakes since they don't get many in there. The experience of learning could help some future little snake get better care.