Dehydration

[dragar]

hi guys i have noticed over the past couple of weeks that my sammie ( almost 3 mnths old) i have had him almost a mnth now and never seen him drink except on a couple of occasions while im holding him and he will drink from his water bowl whilst sat in my hand (awww) he started to look like he was going to shed, eyes went blue and skin went pale ( he was jumpy when handled but i was reading on here tht some times when theyre shedding that they cant see too well so i disregarded tht... i took him to the pet shop who said that he was ready for shedding, he still hasnt shed but i have tried to increase the humidity in the viv by spraying water in every now and again... and since then his eyes have gone very clear and red (back to normal).... but he still lives in the hide on the cool side of the viv and only comes out when handled.

the question here is.... do you think he was dehydrated? and if the tank is a little hot or what... i only have a red light bulb in the viv and im getting slightly worried... i dont want him to go wrinkly and die...

hes eating as well as ever by the way just not drinking too well :shrugs:

all help welcome

[Susan]

OK...to start off, proper sentence structure with the use of capitalization and punctuation would help the reader figure out what you are trying to say.

Next, some more information about your viv set-up is required. Is the red light the only source of heat for your snake and is it directly in the viv? What are the temps in your viv on the cool end and the warm end?

Most people don't witness their snakes drinking. It is more of the occasionally observed pleasure.

It does sound like your snake is ready to shed. Their eyes will go back to normal after the blue phase, but just before the actual shed. Snakes tend to stay hidden when in blue, which is probably why your snake is still hiding after a month in his new home.

[dragar]

oooh ok then but then again i thought that they wouldnt eat before they shed... but he is still shedding?

VIV

my viv is set up with a hide on either side, the red lamp is inside the viv and slightly off centre to the left, i also have a heat mat on the back of left hand side of the viv but he never uses that. It is run by a thermostat.

he has the water bowl in the middle and a branch for climbing on... but never uses the water bowl as far as im aware and he doesnt seem to like the branch,

[dragar]

i meant hes just eaten yesterday and iv never seen him move so fast for the mouse ( i had slit the back which might have been why) but still didnt think that they fed whilst shedding.

[SaulsMom]

You can't correlate "number of times I've seen him drink" to "extent of dehydration" in any animal. You have to look at the condition of the animal: Is it thin? Is the skin wrinkled? Can you see its bones? What does the hair or skin (or scales) look like? What do the mucosal membranes look like? Is there saliva? What do the eyes look like? That's how you determine dehydration or starvation.

my viv is set up with a hide on either side, the red lamp is inside the viv and slightly off centre to the left, i also have a heat mat on the back of left hand side of the viv but he never uses that. It is run by a thermostat.

A heat lamp AND a mat? Whoa. What size is the viv?

As Susan asked, what are the temps on both the warm side and the cool side? I'd be more concerned about those.

SaulsMom

[Ssthisto]

oooh ok then but then again i thought that they wouldnt eat before they shed... but he is still shedding?

VIV

my viv is set up with a hide on either side, the red lamp is inside the viv and slightly off centre to the left, i also have a heat mat on the back of left hand side of the viv but he never uses that. It is run by a thermostat.

he has the water bowl in the middle and a branch for climbing on... but never uses the water bowl as far as im aware and he doesnt seem to like the branch,

Is your heat LAMP controlled by a thermostat?

We loaned someone a thermostat and a heat mat because they were causing their snake a great deal of heat stress using just a lamp in pretty much the same sort of setup as yours - the lamp was almost in the centre (which provides no real 'cool end') and it was not controlled by a thermostat.

After shutting off their heat lamp and putting a heat mat on a stat under one side only of the cage, their snake went from a twelve-inch ballistic psychopath into a lovely two-foot animal who is nervous of handling but is otherwise fine.

Then again... their kid's getting tired of the snake now.

[dragar]

the lamp is on a timer but not a thermostat.... do you think that if i put the lamp on the thermostat it will work? i not got a thermometer in the viv and cant afford one until end of feb as that is when i get paid... im completely broke lol

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180066434371&rd=1&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

that is where i got the viv from so will give u all the info that you need on size and things...

[SaulsMom]

What

Are

Your

Temps?



If you are trying to regulate heat, you'll need to know where you are now and where you need to get to.

SaulsMom

[dragar]

sauls mum chill out, i know what you sed and as i said i dont have thermometers in the viv (ergo not knowing the temps)

and as i said i dont know when i can afford thermometers...

im asking for help not to be spoken to like that, im not thick

[diamondlil]

You can get a digital thermometer with probe from Maplins for under £20. They sel on-line if there isn't a shop near you. It would be best to use either just the lamp or the mat controlled by the thermostat, not both

[dragar]

so if i put the lamp on the thermostat it will work would it not confuse sammy though with the lamp turning on and off???

Hmmmm

and im sorry but you have no idea how skint i am atm, i got enough for his food and chippings but thts it. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[diamondlil]

So I won't let off at how you'd cover vet bills if anything went wrong, but you know that's what I'm thinking.
Turn off the lamp, just use the heat mat with the thermostat controlling the temperature. corns don't need light at all, apart from ambient room light from your window or lightbulb, but temperatures too high are a serious and urgent health risk.

[dragar]

nice one il get that sorted il turn the light off and get the matt on i can get money in an emergency

[diamondlil]

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Home.aspx?C=1954
There you go, £8.99. I've got the upgrade with hygrometer too, but that would fit the bill

[dragar]

welli have swapped the thermostat from the mat to the lamp seeing as i dont think that the matt would ever create enough heat on its own for sammy to get warmed up, so i thought seeing as corn snakes dont need light as much, then the light as a heat generator would be ok...

he seems fine in himself like i sed but i just wanted to make sure that he was not getting dehydrated.

how many different stages of shedding are there then?

[TWGarland]

i have a heat map and a heat lamp in my vivarium, and i dont think theres anything wrong at all, i think its needed. Both are on thermostats, and i have a digi temperature probe. Without the lamp my cool side temps would drop far too low and the humdity would rise too high. The probe on the warm side is right under substrate ontop of the UTH and i regulate the temps so as it doesnt get too warm.

As long as temps are ok, i see no reason not to use the lamp pand UTH, especially if you live in a cold, wet place, like me :rolleyes:

[diamondlil]

i have a heat map and a heat lamp in my vivarium, and i dont think theres anything wrong at all, i think its needed. Both are on thermostats, and i have a digi temperature probe. Without the lamp my cool side temps would drop far too low and the humdity would rise too high. The probe on the warm side is right under substrate ontop of the UTH and i regulate the temps so as it doesnt get too warm.

As long as temps are ok, i see no reason not to use the lamp pand UTH, especially if you live in a cold, wet place, like me :rolleyes:
But as dragar has said, he has no thermometer and only 1 thermostat at the moment, so he has no idea what his temperatures inside the viv are

[tyflier]

Typically, your snakes eyes will go cloudy for a number of days, than clear up for 2 or 3 days prior to the shed, and than they will shed.

I don't think you've anything to worry about, regarding the shedding process.

I do have a question regarding a thermostat and a heat lamp. Where is the probe for the thermostat, and how does it regulate the heat output? And how often does the light turn on and off because of this cycle? Lamps get alot hotter on the surface than the UTH would, but are less efficient at heating the ambient temperature in your viv.

If you UTH covers half the bottom of your viv, and the thermostat is set for 85*F(don't know the celsius), your viv will be perfectly warm. IF you have a screen top and have issues regarding excessive heat loss, drape a towel over half the top as an insulator and up the heat temps in the room the viv is being kept.

[TWGarland]

But as dragar has said, he has no thermometer and only 1 thermostat at the moment, so he has no idea what his temperatures inside the viv are

Ah right sorry, i thought it was blanket advice against using UTH's and heat lamps together for a reason i didnt know of! :rolleyes:

[Ssthisto]

welli have swapped the thermostat from the mat to the lamp seeing as i dont think that the matt would ever create enough heat on its own for sammy to get warmed up, so i thought seeing as corn snakes dont need light as much, then the light as a heat generator would be ok...

he seems fine in himself like i sed but i just wanted to make sure that he was not getting dehydrated.

how many different stages of shedding are there then?

Trust me, a heat mat certainly does provide enough heat for a snake to digest its food... in fact, unregulated, they can provide enough heat to quite neatly cook a snake.

If you're not using a dimming thermostat then you're in for VERY short bulb life... light bulbs are NOT designed to be used with anything other than a dimmer stat. If you have a relatively cheap thermostat (like a 'mat stat') then it will work by turning the light on and off all the time and that CAN upset the snake.

I really would just switch off the lamp, move your heat mat UNDER the cage (not on the back) and put the thermostat probe on the floor of the cage right over the mat.

[diamondlil]

well I think it would depend on what you are calling a viv. Our leopard gecko has a wooden viv with a 20 watt bulb controlled by a rheostat. My treefrogs have a tall hexagonal tank I used to keep fish in, that has 2 heatmats mounted on the sides, controlled by rheostats, with a mesh top to stop their locusts jumping out. My corns are in tubs on a rack, with a heatrope controlled by a themostat. In a house/apartment with normal levels of heating, I could see an unregulated lamp plus heatmat being far too hot for safe use.

[tyflier]

Here (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45687) is a link to a topic in which I have posted a sequence of photos that I took over the course of my snak'e last shed progression. The photos are dated, so you can see the timeline of the progression. She completed her shed 2 days after the last photo was taken.

[Joolz68]

As far as your snake getting dehydrated: if you provide clean water, the snake will drink if it gets thirsty. Snakes are not like humans, where they need a sip of something with dinner to wash it down.

As to the light and heat mat: I would use the UTH, with the light as back-up heat if the room's ambient air temp is low (cool). If the room feels comfortable to you, it should be fine for the snake. If it's a choice between the two: the snake needs belly heat more than warm air temps.

I have a 50w red light and a UTH. I used the UTH as the primary heat source. I only use the red light on very cold days, but never @ night (going thru The Change w/ hot flashes:realhot: & night sweats, so windows stay open year-round. Boyfriend has to wear fleece!:grin01: Luckily, due to Global Warming, this winter has been extremely mild. But I digress...).

When I first got my snake, I thought I could use both, on timers, all the time. :confused: I experienced a bad shed (bits & pieces) on her 1st attempt,:cry: so knew the tank was getting too dry. I stopped using the red light and tried misting the aspen daily (which helped some), and 2nd shed was better (a long piece 1inch from ventral, and the remaining shorter piece). :nope: But I knew Nibblet could do better!

I have since made her a moist hide (using a paper orange juice container & damp shredded paper toweling) which stays in the tank at all times. Since my apartment gets so warm (with building-regulated heating), I turn off the UTH when sun goes down and back on in the morning to simulate winter. Her last two sheds have been perfect.:crazy02:

[dragar]

you know what i wish someone could come round to my house, look at the viv and then let me know where i am going round and what i need to make his viv perfect lol

im not confident at all now then that he is comfrtable in his viv at all and wonder if it would be better for him to go back to the shop and then he get taken to a different home that will be better equipped to make him happy :cry: :dunce: :confused: :confused: :confused:

i just wish i could do something better. i get paid next week and i m going to buy a whole new settup i think, but i just need some help in knowing where and how to get all the best stuff for him... i love him soo much

[dragar]

WOOO HOOOOO sammy shed just now and it all came off in one Woo Hoo im all giddy and i think that i will be keeping his first shed as a rememberance thing, im so proud, like a mum who child has just learnt to ride his first bike lol

this feeling is amazing, hes so lively now and so adventurous its great :D

so birhgt and beautifu is my baby :crazy02: :crazy02: :cool:

[diamondlil]

To be honest, I'd recommend Kathy Love's Cornsnake manual (you can order it from W H Smith's), plus an accurate thermometer. The book will prove invaluable. I've read mine so many times you wouldn't believe! The thermometer is a vital bit of kit, once your temperatures are right then you're on the right road. Why don't you post a picture of the viv? Unlike some people who've joined here and asked for advice, you are obviously willing to give your snake the best set up you can.

[Kitty]

Trust me, a heat mat certainly does provide enough heat for a snake to digest its food... in fact, unregulated, they can provide enough heat to quite neatly cook a snake.
...
I really would just switch off the lamp, move your heat mat UNDER the cage (not on the back) and put the thermostat probe on the floor of the cage right over the mat.
I'll second this. I had a probe get knocked completely out of position on a heat strip this fall. The first thing I saw when I entered the room 130* (F) on the thermometer and the thermostat was lined out (--). I was lucky no one died or regurged.

Given the financial constraints, I would use the heat mat as Ssthisto suggests - under the tank, with the thermostat to regulate it. Leave the light off until you are able to get a thermometer to monitor your temps.

Good luck.

[dragar]

ok then thanks guys thw next post on here from me will be a pic of my viv ithat way you can help me, i am alt more relaxed now and dont worry the first thing i am buying when i get paid is the thermometers and the book, thak you all soo far, i really do want the best for sammy :cool: