Smelly mouse colony

[LizS]

I need advice on an easy way to control the urine stench of my colony of 10 mice. They're in a 4 x 2 ft plastic container, with a grille at the top, and 2 inches of pine shavings as bedding. I change the bedding every 3 days but by the next day it stinks to high heavens already. I'd like to find a way that's easier and cheap to keep them smelling sweet. I've tried aspen shavings and the smell is worse. I've tried newspaper and paper towels and that's the absolute worst, it stinks in 2 hrs! I don't believe my mice are overcrowded, they have 8 square feet of space. They are fed rodent chow of several brands, all dry formulas and they have a water bottle. Occasionally they get some scrambled eggs, apples and raw broccoli (which they love, don't ask me why!). The smell is the same whether they get moist food or not. They all appear healthy and active, like normal mice. These are my stock mice, I harvest the pinkies at 4 days or so.

[Matt L]

Liz,
I breed my own mice as well, on a somewhat larger scale! I have produced up 600 in one month, but that is not the norm. I realized early on the local pet stores could not nearly meet my demands for pinkies and fuzzies nor did I want to pay their price.
A friend turned me on to a breeding rack that works great. The initial expense is a little more than I wanted to spend, but it has payed for it self a long time ago. I clean once a week( with pine shavings)and fill the food hopper once every two weeks.(dog food). There will always be some smell--but with this schedule It is nowhere to what I would call bad. Check them outhttp://www.freedombreeder.com/racks/rodent_racks_mouse.asp

[Jr Nimeskern]

if you go

to:http://www.kingsnake.com/obsoleta/projects.htm

this site will help you build your own mice rack... its not as nice as the ones you can buy! but Im building one right now! thats all I can help you with... I use aspen for my mice... but I think ill try to find something cheaped that I can get in mass bulks! maybe ill use the grass that I cut and use taht for bedding! hey at least its free...
Oh and I use dog food its cheap and you can buy in bulk

[jim]

all of my mice breeding attempts were shelved due to the smell. NASTY RODENTS!!! lol... i switched to just buying f/t online and at shows. a little more expensinve than breeding but a whole lot cheaper than pet store prices... jim

[Kevin M]

I'm with Jim on this one. I tried breeding my own mice and although I was very successful, I just couldnt tolerate the smell. And I swear I was spending more $$$ overall on their upkeep than I would on F/T. Though it seems every once and a while I start breeding them again just to remind myself how much I hate it...

This thread is giving me the itch again. God help me if I purchase a few levels from freedom breeder...

[Matt L]

Kev,
I couldn't believe how easy the racks made it. I started with several 10 gal tanks--What a mess--I bought 1 rack and 1 extra tray and I start with the empty and work my way thru the rack. I can clean 1 level in about 6 minutes. No food dishes, no water bottles,very little mess. Now heres the cool part! All the extra mice I produce, I sell to the local pet store(.50 each) -who could very rarely meet my demands for mice to begin with. 1 rack can produce more than enough mice to feed 30 to 40 snakes depending on size.

Lots of Luck!

[Jr Nimeskern]

Hey Matt did you build or buy your racks? I'm just wondering I just started in my attempts to breed the little critters... so far I have been having some luck... I built my own racks... just like the ones on the kingsnake.com build it yourself projects... what is the best way to breed them to get the most out of the mice??? do I keep the male with the females? I have little plastic containers 16in by 12in its sorta small... but i think itll work... what is the most productive way to get the most mice?
PS I keep my mice outside in my shed so I dont have to deal with the smell... so far so good... until winter then I dont know what Im goin to do

[Kevin M]

Your killing me Matt. You make it sound so easy that now I've seriously got the itch. Between that and the reptile expo this sunday I could very well cave-in late this sunday or early monday.

Ok, Now for questions... Easy is one thing. Smell is another. I dont have access to a shed or a basement or any room that is going to be "away" from the family rooms. How bad is the smell? Is it tolerable? I really dont want to even try this again unless I can go a full week w/o having to cleanup after them. As it stands in the past Ive always had to refresh their substrate like twice a week.

[Missymonkey]

what I do for my kitty litter is mix in baby powder and baking power to lessen the smell so I can use my litter a little longer before doing a complete change. You might be able to do this or just set a box of baking powder ontop of the cage. Or they make these filters for cat litter boxes taht you stick in this little window in the top of the litter box, the pad sucks ammonia or something like that, which drifts up from the litter, you could just set one on top of your chage. I get mine at wal-mart or petco, and they are only a buck or two for one and it lasts awhile. Try that, it may help.

good luck

[Matt L]

Corny,Kevin--

I bought my racks from freedom breeder. I thought about building them, but a friend told me how much he liked his--I decided it was worth the investment. I'm up to 2 racks now, I use a 1:5 ratio(1male,5females) in each drawer. I never seperate the males or females. If you disturb them alot they will canibalize the babies, mine have seem to have got used me and my daughter, but I try to keep alot of visitors out! I just harvest the mice depending on what size I need to feed. I very convient-it's kinda like having a mouse buffet'. If a pinky is a little small, one of the other drawers usually has a larger one or a fuzzie. Once the mice open there eyes I wean them out. Now-Let me warn you-this can very easily get out of hand, especially if the temp is a little cooler(70-75). One day I had 60, two weeks later I had 600.(well it seemed to happen that quick) Don't breed what you can't use. I do freeze some of mine. I haven't really been aggresive at selling them, the pet stores seem to have a hard time keeping them. I took 200 in to one on friday afternoon and he was calling me sunday afternoon for more. Kev-I must admit I have a room dedicated to it. The powder idea sounds good. something else to consider-You don't have run the 1:5 ratio --try 1:3 or even 1:2.for the rack system I have you will also need a water supply. Freedom breeder offers a reliable inexpensive regulator to cut the water pressure down. The other thing is the top of the rack is grated, this allows mice to push pine shavings up on the grate, so when you slide the drawer out, shavings fall to the shelf or rack below. While this sounds very messy its really a very minimum of pine shavings. I think this will happen with any rack system. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words--so I'll post one in a few minutes.

Good Luck!

[Kevin M]

Appreciate the advice Matt. You may have hit it right on the nose. Maybe a 1:3 ratio per draw would be the way to go. Keep it simple at first, see how it smells & see what type of quantity I'd expect from that kind of ratio. I know what you mean about getting out of hand. Ive had some small mice colony's in the past and it was either feast or famine. Id have just adults one day and boom within 2 weeks Id suddenly have 5 or so. (Like I said, a small colony)

The baking soda/powder idea is worth exploring too. Ive heard others mention it in the past but I cannot recall the discussion.

I'll probably wait untill my tax return comes before I finally decide. That a little spring cleaning to see if I can find a quasi-secluded corner of a room for the rack. In the past my colony was in a high traffic area of my house and as youve stated, cannabalism was a frequent problem.

Thanks again. And any pictures of your setup would be appreciated.

[Kevin M]

Those pictures just decided for me. Looks like Im getting myself a drawer for starters. (Im so easily persuaded), Now to find a secluded area. :)

Once last thing. How does the water supply work? What other accessories might I need?

[Matt L]

Kev- If you look in the top right hand of the first picture--the red thing on my water heater is the regulator. I thought i could beat the sytem and find one at alocal hardware store cheaper--however the one from freedom breeder is the best deal--I added an extra cold water valve--the regulater will screw on to a normal garden hose bib. The regulator is adjustable and will reliably feed up to 600 drawers. The rack system comes pre installed, oh nuts wait a sec for another pic

[Jr Nimeskern]

How do you feed them? I dont see any food... and the other thing is if my mice are outside and it gets to a low 50 deg or so will they die or what? should I use a heat lamp? And how often do you clean out their cages? If they eat their babys everytime I clean them out then whats the use?

[jim]

ok now you've gotta stop!!! :) now i'm getting the itch to try again. i just put in my monthly order to rodentpro and it came to almost $100. hmmm.... maybe breeding the things isn't sooooo bad.... see you guys later 'm going to go find a good shrink in the yellow pages... i need some help.... ;)

[Kevin M]

Matt - Excellent pics! You've answered all my questions and I think I know everything I need now, Thanks! It's still going to be a bit before I purchase a level but when I do you'll be sure to know, for better or worse. :)

jim - $100? Hell, I just spent $319 at Big Cheese Rodent Factory. Of course I did buy a 4 month supply.

[Matt L]

Corny-

The food hopper is up on top, I made a cover for it out of a piece of 1/2" plywood. The bottom food hopper is covered by the top rack. If you have more than one rack the are stackable. It's a little harder to get to the bottom food hopper but not impossible. I fill the food hoppers about evrey two weeks. I'm not sure about the cold-I know my highest production is in the cooler months--with the temps anywhere from 65-75 degrees. I have a friend with an outside breeding house(open on 2 walls)and, he hasn't had any problems,however it doesn't get that cold here in Florida for long periods of time (Well maybe where Rich is, it does).Canibalism doesn't happen that often-the trick is to limit the amount of people that come in contact with them. If your the only one cleaning, after a few weeks the mice will get used to you. I now have a very well established colony and suffer virtually no canibalism. Something else that helps is to leave your established breeders alone,don't switch them from drawer to drawer-only relpace old adult breeders when they stop producing. Males last longer than females. I have one male thats over 2-1/2 years old. Now I usually don't name my mice, but with him I made an exception. I lost track of how many babies he's fathered at around 2700. What a life! Oh Yeah...............his name is "Spot".
Good Luck!

[LizS]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I've tried various things based on your input. Conclusion: mice stink no matter what. Perhaps tiny peppermint suppositories might work...
I just have to bite the bullet and change them often enough for the hubby not to complain. (my snakes don't seem to mind the smell :) )

[jersme]

You can reduce the smell by 50% if you put vanilla extract in the drinkwater.

Jersme

[CornsnakeKeeper]

I don't think that I would be able to breed my own mice for my snakes because it would be way too hard for me to kill them. Pinkies wouldn't be so bad, but I now need larger mice. I can't help it... I feel a bit bad for them when they are alive.

Once I buy them in a bag, I know there is nothing I could do to help them then, haha!


One more thing I'd like to mention: You guys talk of feeding your mice dogfood. I've heard that this is not good. I mean, your snakes eat what your mice eat. Would you really want your snakes eating cheap dog food?

[LizS]

The vanilla extract is interesting, I'm going to try that right away.
I feed my mice a special cornbread I make with lots of eggs with the shell, concentrated orange juice, pecans and milk. Also I give them fresh broccoli, field greens and thawed frozen peas, millet, sunflower seeds, pizza crust, macaroni and cheese, fresh carrots, and commercial hamster seed mix. I also give them high quality rodent pellets, but they won't touch them (picky picky).

[Darin Chappell]

I don't care how expensive rodentpro gets, I will never breed mice in my house! The smell is atrocious and so is the mess. In fact, sometimes I think I like snakes as I do because I HATE RODENTS SO MUCH!!!!

Seriously, I just cannot justify spending the time, energy, or urine free breathing to breed mice when I can order online for my 20+ snakes so easily. Just my $.02 worth.

[CK2434]

i was wondering what f/t mice mean i see that alot and have no clue what it means thx

[st3v3]

f/t = frozen then thawed:)

[nova]

i was wondering if there was a quick, painless way to freeze your mice. last time i bought 2 live mice i felt pity for them and kept them.

[LizS]

I agree with Darin. Although I don't hate rodents I hate their unrelenting stench and need for maintenance. I received 2 days ago 500 mice from Rodentpro. I've already frozen most of my mouse colony, and have only 4 pregnant females left.

[jersme]

I don´t know how how to freeze mice because I think you don´t have to know. If you feed them frozen mice you´re stupid if breed them yourself. Then it´s better to buy them. I only breed mice for those stupid snakes wich refuses to eat anything that isn´t alive. And then you don´t have freeze them because your snake does the killing part for you.

Jersme

[Colleen]

:( Well I have PET Fancy show rats, and they are loved family members that do many tricks, and we had mice as pets before. So having said that I never had a problem with any smell of course we only had 3. But to help you out 1 the dog food being fed WILL make the urine and feces smell bad!! Also dog food gives the mice NO nutritional value, all they get out of it is the FAT, this can NOT be good for your snakes since this is where they get their nutrients. 2 try Ceder chips, they smell nice and are easy to clean up. You can order hem in a bundle vac. packed. 3 the close off tubs are a bad idea. We had to put ours in one for a week till we got a better cage and WOW the smell!!! I don't know how practical it would be for housing many mice, but from experience I can say that in an open cage w/ lots of ventalation the bedding dries quickly and the smell isn't as bad. Maybe adding holes along the sides of them would help. 4 I gave little bedding the first day and added a handful for 2 days then dumped that and so on...
:) Hope this helped you a bit. I could never raise and feed mice......"HERE TINY lets go see the nice snake" yicks they'd all have names!!! It's FT for me, can't put a name to a popcicle!!!




:cool: Colleen