I'm beyond upset...

[Markey]

So my snake had a possible upper respiratory infection. The vet did not detect anything but based on the fact that I saw fluid coming from her nostrils, they treated her with Baytril on January 8th. Mind you, they recorded her weight at 256 grams and she's 978 grams (weighed twice since the original vet visit) so she was probably underdosed....who knows.

Anyway, I took her back for a recheck with a different vet who said she was fine on January 23rd.

Markey pooped on Feb 5th after 8 weeks of not eating or pooping. I was defrosting a mouse for her in hopes that she would finally eat when she pooped. I called the vet and they told me to go ahead and feed her. She took two fuzzies for me.

I took a stool sample in on the 5th and it tested normal.

Markey has been in the hospital tank (warmer temps) for three more weeks because I wanted to make sure she was fine before I put her back into the larger enclosure where she has choices for temps. She prefers cooler temps and I wanted to keep her in warmer temps until I was sure she was ok.

Anyway, I decided to feed her again today and to put her back into her larger enclosure. Well when I took her out, my son noticed that she had FLUID coming from her nostrils AGAIN!!!!!!!! What the heck????? Could the fluid be something normal? I'm beside myself.....everything has been fine. Neither vet found anything wrong with Markey either but now the fluid is back.

Markey is eating right now.....at least she is taking food! BUT I'm just so at a loss here.......I keep spending all of this darned money to take her to the vet and they keep saying she's fine.....but there is fluid?? Any thoughts......please. I feel like crying right now.

[PtDnsr]

What vets are you using? The first one doesn't sound like they deal with snakes at all (700g is a big difference). Are either of them members of ARAV? If not check out this website (http://www.arav.org/Members/WI.htm) for ARAV vets in Wisconsin. I have noticed that if I pick one of my snakes up right after they drink a lot sometimes water will come back out (almost like they didn't really swallow it) but that's about it. Coming out of the nostrils definately says problem to me.

~Katie

[starsevol]

This doesn't sound good to me. My opinion is get another vet. Alot of vets say they treat exotics but many of them don't have a clue. It took me going to 4 different vets to find one I felt I could trust.

[SkyChimp]

How's your humidity? Is it high? Are you misting the enclosure? If your snake has been misted or exposed to high humity, it very well may be water bubbling out of the nostrils. I've noticed this with my boa which requires much higher humidity than a corn. I'd make sure the heat is set a little higher and the tank has low humidity and watch her for awhile. If this is the only thing you are seeing, I bet it will clear up.

[MegF.]

You have a cornsnake that is almost 1000 grams????? I'm a bit skeptical! My Green tree pythons aren't even that heavy and my largest corn, at over 4 ft. is only approaching 700 grams. No where near 978.

[Markey]

The humidity was kept drier in the hospital tank so it's not that. I was not misting due to the RI and me being nervous about it coming back.

I just put Markey back into the larger enclosure tonight. I planned on misting twice per day but now maybe I'll wait. She has four levels. The lower level stays around 43% humidity with NO misting and then it goes down a bit as the levels get higher. I do get higher levels near my moss. These humidity levels are WITHOUT misting. Should I wait a while before I start misting?

Meg, the first vet I saw said that Markey was 256 grams. The second vet weighed her twice to be sure and once came back at 978 and the next time came back at 976 but the little lid was not all the way on. When she moved the lid, it went back to 978. She also checked to make sure her scale was calibrated to include the little plastic box that Markey was placed in.

[Markey]

PtDnsr..one of the vets listed on that website is the one who said that Markey was 256 grams. She also told me that she didn't see any signs of a RI but would treat her since I saw fluid coming from her nostrils. She also said Markey was full of stool and that I should soak her once a day and mist her body with water. She also told me that I should keep Markey in 78-80 degree temps while she was on the Baytril. (I have this all in writing).

The second vet said that she expected to see a tiny little snake because of what the chart said from the previous vet (I had records faxed over). Now don't you think the first vet would have said, "This 256 grams isn't right. Lets reweigh her?" For all I know, Markey was given the wrong dosage by the first vet (listed on that website provided) because the weight was wrong. I had to give her 0.12 for fourteen days.

The second vet felt Markey from top to bottom, pressed in on most of her body, etc...and said that there was NO stool in her.

I've heard so many different things from so many different people and I do try to take it all in and sort of weed through it, but to pay a vet money and be told that everything is fine when obviously it is not......what else can I do?

Honestly, the second vet seemed like she really knew what she was talking about. They see corns every day and she had a lot of advice for me that the first vet did not. I felt very comfortable with what she was telling me.

I'm just at a loss about the nose drainage.....

[SkyChimp]

The humidity was kept drier in the hospital tank so it's not that. I was not misting due to the RI and me being nervous about it coming back.

I just put Markey back into the larger enclosure tonight. I planned on misting twice per day but now maybe I'll wait. She has four levels. The lower level stays around 43% humidity with NO misting and then it goes down a bit as the levels get higher. I do get higher levels near my moss. These humidity levels are WITHOUT misting. Should I wait a while before I start misting?



If you really think she has an RI, I wouldn't mist. Besides, 43% isn't that bad for a an ambient humidity. Of course, more helps close to shed, but I think 43% is just fine. I'd just watch the temps and see what happens.

Is she opening her mouth more than usual? Does she rest with her head up?
If all you are seeing is a few bubbles, I'd make sure she is nice and warm and just watch her. I bet it will clear up.

[Markey]

Thanks Sky. To answer your questions, no she does not open her mouth more than usual and she does not rest with her head up.
She ate tonight and I put her back into her 260 gallon setup. She has half of her body inside of her hide on the warm side (87-88 degrees), her middle section resting on the warm side that isn't covered (82-83 degrees) and her back section tunneled underneath the substrate (Aspen) on the cool side (70 degrees). It's cute to see her back in her condo where she always loved to hang out.
I'm praying that this is nothing but at the same time I'm still concerned and will keep a definite close watch on her.

[Markey]

Sky, I just noticed that you are in Newport News, Virginia. I lived there for ten years. I graduated from Denbigh High in 1989. It's a small world......

[SkyChimp]

Sky, I just noticed that you are in Newport News, Virginia. I lived there for ten years. I graduated from Denbigh High in 1989. It's a small world......

I graduated Denbigh in '84 :)

[Susan]

I'm surprised at both vets. Treating a snake with Baytril is more than a one-time thing. Any antibiotic must be used over a period of time in order to have any effect. Recommending lower temps for a snake with an RI isn't sound advice. But expecting a 256 gram snake to be a tiny little snake isn't right either. A 978 gram cornsnake is a LARGE snake for a corn and not too common, and I would probably guess, an overweight corn. I would also recommend that you find yet a third vet if the problem continues. However, I"m not totally convinced there is a problem as you only see the fluid sporadically and she seems fine otherwise.

[Markey]

Hi, Susan. The vet that said she was expecting to see a tiny snake was the one who had not seen Markey and was going solely on the information provided in the fax from the previous vet who said she was 256 grams. Know what I mean? When she saw Markey, she knew that she was heavier than 256 grams. Also, Markey is very long. I don't know if that has anything to do with her weight. Maybe the second and third weights were incorrect as well. Who knows... The second vet did say that Markey was not fat and that she looked very healthy in all ways.
I have to say that I was feeding Markey 2 large mice every 10 days or so. Maybe that was too much. Markey always eats less in the winter months (one large mouse every 7-10 days). Also, Markey lives in a 260 gallon enclosure that is six feet tall. She had two levels of climbing. She now has four. She was constantly climbing and getting exercise and a friend of mine who is a breeder notices that his snakes that are in the larger setup weigh more......NOT that I'm saying Markey should be 978 grams. Again, I've never had any real issues with Markey so this is my first experience in four years of needing vets.....and it sucks quite frankly.

[tbtusk]

Now, I'm not trying to give any advice since I don't think I have the knowledge, but I do what to mention that Raya, my stripe, is about 260 g and just over 36". She's not a very small snake, although I admit Aurora, my other female, dwarfs her, being 550 g. I'm just agreeing that a 250 gram snake should not make a good vet think of a small snake unless their used to seeing large pythons ect.

I can't say that the vet is reliable or otherwise, but I wanted to mention that.

[Susan]

2 large mice every 10 days for an adult is quite alot , IMO, for the average adult in my collection. One large adult mouse once a week is more than a good maintenance routine here. I have to skip about 1 meal a month to keep many of my males from getting fat. Often, they refuse on their own, so I don't feel guilty. My females usually get a rat of the same size as a large adult mouse, or even a little bigger, as I'm always trying to put weight on them. It always seems that by the time they're looking good, it's brumation time or egg-laying time.

As long as Marky's eating and active and doesn't show any other symptoms other than the occasional drip from her nose, I would probably just monitor her for now. If you notice any changes, then I would suggest trying a third vet. They always say third times the charm!

[Markey]

I called the vet first thing this morning and she called back a few minutes ago. She said that as long as Markey is still active, eating, doesn't have any bubbles in her throat or foam, is not open mouth breathing or holding her head and neck in the air, we can watch her for a while. She said that sometimes snakes have drainage......she says the humidity is fine at 43 but should not go below 35/36%. She said I could safely increase the humidity to 55-60% at this point but that the 43% does not concern her.

Markey was exploring her enclosure today. She was hanging out on the second level and cruising around on the bottom. She made an awful mess in the substrate from her burrowing antics and I loved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[diver19]

liquid oozing out of the nose also happened to one of my snakes during a feed ive notice that i didnt really dry of the fuzzy i feed him, it was soaking wet from beeing thawed could it be possible that the liquid from his nose came from the water soaked fuzzy....?