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Sappho's regurge ...

Jayque
02-18-2007, 11:19 PM
Well, sad to say I am faced with my first regurge today. I've read up over the past couple weeks on all the FAQ's and advice with regards to regurge issues so that should I ever have to deal with it (and I knew eventually I would) I could feel knowledgeable on the subject and how to proceed.

I know the most important thing is to figure out what the trigger for the regurge was, so here are some details:

Sappho seemed well adjusted to her new home. She has had four succesful feedings without issue. This would have been her second f/t large pinky (the first three feedings being live).

Her tank is heated by a UTH that is regulated to 86.5 on the glass - which provides consistent 81-82 degrees above the repti-bark substrate. The cool side ambient hovers between 72-73 degrees.

Both F/T feedings (her first and then this regurge) were slit four times down the back per the instructions all over this forum.

She is 18 1/2" long and weighed in today prior to feeding at 18 grams.

No changes in schedule, temperature, location, or handling has occured between her previous feedings and this.

The thawing method I used for the F/T pinkys was to submerge in a bowl of warm/hot water for three minutes prior to slitting. (My three other hatchlings were fed using this same method without incident - and no, they are not co-hab'd)

Everything - to my rookie knowledge - seemed properly prepared and followed. The only other possibility I have thought of was that the pink was too large. I don't think this is correct, but just in case I am including a picture of the meal in progress for size judgement. Also - my 12 gram 13" snow managed the same feeding size without issue, so again - I doubt the meal size is the issue.

The largest mystery to me though, is a mystery second pile of regurge. The regurge happened within two hours of consumption and was found behind the warm side hide. The pink was barely digested but his stomach had been quickly digested and was leaking a yellow fluid - I assume this is normal but I wish I would have taken a pic. Later, I noticed a second pile on the other side of her viv. This is the pile that is concerning me. Perhaps it is my imagination - but there is something about this pile that looks larva'ish. I'm posting pics of it - again probably my imagination - but I could really use a more experienced eye to take a look at the second pile of puke - removed from the slime it was in.

I hope I provided adequate details to receive some feedback, but perhaps all that can be done is waiting 8-10 days and praying for a succesful feeding of a newborn pink.

diamondlil
02-19-2007, 03:09 AM
I'm not sure from the picture but it could be the remains of Sappho's previous meal. I have 2 sibling hatchlings, Butch and Sundance, who weighed exactly the same when I got them, and have been kept in exactly the same conditions. I found that while Butch has romped away in feeding and growth, Sundance took much longer to bump up the prey sizes and regurged a couple of times before her silly owner (me) cottoned on. All being equal, as regards possible health problems, Sappho may just be a slower grower than the others. I'd recommend grapefruit seed extract, which you can get from health food stores. Kathy Love gives the dosage in her manual.

lyndy299
02-19-2007, 04:10 PM
Since it was a second pile..I would also assume it would be the remains of the last meal. How long ago was this? Did the snake still show a lump before the next feeding? It almost looks like the snake hardly even begun to digest the meal...which is strange...saying this, I have seen a case where a hatchling still showed a lump many days after feeding because the stomach did not digest it (but this was a non feeder who finally took a meal...possibly the body had already begun to shut down) Also..I cant really tell the size of the regurge because I'm from the UK (note to self: learn the sizes of different currency). I would wait a good 10 days before attempting another feed to let the acids in the stomach settle. Hope this helps....and I also have to credit your organisation and the fact you have already thought this out and given as much information/pics as possible.

Susan
02-19-2007, 04:47 PM
It looks like Sappho wasn't finished digesting the previous meal before being fed again. You didn't mention how much time it had been between feedings, but it is apparent that it wasn't enough. If you have moved up in the size of the meals, that may be the reason Sappho now needs more time to digest. In the second pic, it looks like there is still a small lump in Sappho's belly. Wait the required 10 days, then feed a meal at least half the size you just fed with some NutriBac/BeneBac. Allow a week to digest and then try a larger meal (but not as big as this one) if Sappho keeps the smaller pinky down. Wait another week, then try a large pinky again.

Jayque
02-19-2007, 05:59 PM
Thank you for all of the replies ...

Diamondlil: I will definately look into getting some GSE - it sounds like it's good as a precautionary to the water supply anyway.

Lyndy299: The penny is about as big as my thumbnail (3/4" diameter - slightly under 2cm) The questionable second regurge was about 1/4" long with a diameter of 1/8" ...

Susan: The lump in the second pic is the meal post ingestion. I included it as a document of the amount of stretch the food size had to determine if it was too large for her to handle. It is not a lump prior to feeding. ... OK correction, I have just re-looked at the pic and about four patches past the lump I thought you were talking about, I noticed a second possible lump. I will check through the other pictures I took to confirm if indeed it was a lump - or just the way her body was positioned in this shot. Oh, and to answer your question she was fed on Wednesday afternoon prior to yesterdays throw back. I guess I took that it was digested for granted.

Again, thank all for the feedback.

Susan
02-19-2007, 06:19 PM
I sort of figured...being fed on the fourth day after a large meal was just too soon for Sappho. And you may not find that small lump in other photos due to positioning. There wasn't much left of the previous meal and you just happened to catch it on that one pic.

tyflier
02-19-2007, 06:28 PM
You might also check to make sure that the pinky was com[pletely thatwed before you fed it. 3 minutes for a frozen large pinky doesn't sound long enough to me. I usually defrost in a cup of hot tap water for about 5 minutes, then put fresh hot water in for another 3-5 minutes before feeding my snakes. This is the time I use for a large pinky or peach fuzzy.

lyndy299
02-19-2007, 06:36 PM
I tend to squeeze the heads of my pinkies/fuzzies...and as disgusting as it is...if they cave in...its defrosted.....

MegF.
02-19-2007, 08:12 PM
Besides the GSE I would look into ordering some nutribac from Kathy Love's site. You can dust the pinky with it. You might also try snipping some slits in the back of the pinky before feeding to help your snake digest. I had two babies from my first clutch that have been problem children. When I moved up to larger pinkies, they both regurged not long afterward. I gave them the 10 days, fed very tiny pinkies that had been snipped. Placed GSE in the water and waited at least 7 days between feedings instead of 5. They are so far doing fine with each having 4-5 feedings since regurge. I will not move them up in size for quite a while, and then only gradually.