California Laws?

[tom e]

So I was going to buy a Rubber Boa from SMR, but while checking into CA state laws found out that I can't purchase one (even if it comes from Washington stock) But I can go out and catch one locally if I buy a fishing license.
What kind of logic is that? (rhetorical)
My questions for CA herpers...
Is this really a standard fishing license?
And has anybody had any success finding rubber boas? Suggested locations or tecniques would be appreciated!

[Nanci]

I don't know the answer to your question- but couldn't you love a Rosy Boa just as much? (My new snake infatuation...) Or a KSB??

Nanci

[VinnyJ]

I've never caught a rubber boa but I do know, thanks to Lefty M(Trevor), that yes... you need a standard fishing license. I know... I thought it was weird too. It seems to me that it's more of a catching license. There are limits to how many of each species you can catch in each day and total.

[Nanci]

Florida has a law about box turtles that you can't buy or sell them, but catching your own or being given one is ok, but you can only have two individuals total of the four subspecies native to Florida.

Nanci

[kathylove]

We found 2 or 3 rubber boas on a camping trip several years ago. It was in May with warm days and cold nights, near Cherry Lake just outside Yosemite. We also found a couple of mountain kings and a gopher snake. It was a great trip with some beautiful scenery!

We didn't keep any as we are not into those species, but Bill was kept busy taking photos!

[tyflier]

With a standard fishing license, you are allowed to catch and keep up to 5 of any native CA snake species, excluding rattlesnakes, which have no limit. You need a special permit, available through the DFG, in order to breed these snakes, or to keep more than 5. Albino variations are excluded. I am not aware of any regulations forbidding the purchse of rubber boas, though, admittedly, I have never seen any for sale in CA.

A good place to find rubber boas is in the Mammoth Lakes area or Tuolomne Meadows, in the lower valleys. I would stay between 5,000 and 10,000' in elevation for your best chances. If you're lucky, you may find a Rosy Boa, as well as Zonata kings, cali kings, racers and whips.

[tricksterpup]

We found 2 or 3 rubber boas on a camping trip several years ago. It was in May with warm days and cold nights, near Cherry Lake just outside Yosemite. We also found a couple of mountain kings and a gopher snake. It was a great trip with some beautiful scenery!

We didn't keep any as we are not into those species, but Bill was kept busy taking photos!
I am so shocked.. there should be nothing wrong with owning a pair of rubbers.

Actually if you think about it, if you go herping and catch a pair, it fish license is cheaper than mail order. :shrugs: And you get exercise as well. :grin01:

I wish you the best of luck and let us know what transpire. And nanci, I would think the same would go for Roseys as well since they are native to the state as well. I love my hetmet Rosy boas.

[tyflier]

I am so shocked.. there should be nothing wrong with owning a pair of rubbers.

Actually if you think about it, if you go herping and catch a pair, it fish license is cheaper than mail order. :shrugs: And you get exercise as well. :grin01:

I wish you the best of luck and let us know what transpire. And nanci, I would think the same would go for Roseys as well since they are native to the state as well. I love my hetmet Rosy boas.
I don't think the same is true, because I have definitely seen rosy boas for sale in many pet stores in CA. Never a rubber, though...

And a CA fishing license may not be less than mailorder...at $40...it's pretty durn close ;)...but I get one every year, anyhow...

[tricksterpup]

I don't think the same is true, because I have definitely seen rosy boas for sale in many pet stores in CA. Never a rubber, though...

And a CA fishing license may not be less than mailorder...at $40...it's pretty durn close ;)...but I get one every year, anyhow...
WOW.. MN its only $20..
That is a crazy state. lol

[tyflier]

Yup...and it goes up every year...

At least I just had 3 more wild trout waters get approved for year round fishing. So at least I can get my money's worth. I went yesterday and caught a dozen or so brown trout in about 3 1/2 hours.... :crazy02:

[tom e]

I am no longer trying to make sense of the regulation... but from what I understand, there is a subspecies (debated by many as to whether or not it really is a subspecies) which is endangered.
However it is against the law to buy or sell ANY native California wildlife without express permission. Which as far as I understand it may be very difficult to obtain depending on the species.
Impossible for rubber boas unless you are a zoo or a college or whatever.

Now just to make it crazier, if I have 2 license caught rb's and they breed cause I cohabed, I am also required to turn over the babies to the state!!!!

A list I saw told me my limit is 3 for rb's..

I only want the one. The crazy thing is that as a result of this law to protect a supposedly threatened wildlife population, I am forced to take one from the wild rather than buy one captive bred!!

[tom e]

I have seen conflicting information on the internet so I emailed dfg.. this info is coming from a gent named Phil who is an enforcement officer..

Tyflier, is this the season to go for it? Or would you say it's early yet? Also will I need to buy the license for each outing or is one good for the season?

Thanks for your answers guys...

[TandJ]

Up in my neck of the woods there has been some critter movement.. I have yet to find anything yet, but I have been told people are finding gopher snakes out here.. If I had a source of open water near by me I would be looking there for thirsty critters..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

[tyflier]

I have seen conflicting information on the internet so I emailed dfg.. this info is coming from a gent named Phil who is an enforcement officer..

Tyflier, is this the season to go for it? Or would you say it's early yet? Also will I need to buy the license for each outing or is one good for the season?

Thanks for your answers guys...
Still lot's of snow and ice above 8,000'. Maybe in the Crowely lake area, but your chances are slimmer. I would wait until late May or early June before I expected to see much activity in the highcountry. Tioga Pass, highway 120, through Tuolomne Meadows has not opened yet.

The "special permission" you need in order to breed california native snake species is a rather easily obtained permit from the DFG out of the headquarters in Sacremento. The hard part is the possiblity of a "facilities inspection", and I believe there may be an examination to prove your basic husbandry and breeding skills are "up to par". The application for permit is available at the DFG website for download. It's called the "Permit for Propogation of Native California Snake Species", and I believe it is renewable on a yearly basis. A $40 fishing license is the resident price for a full year(1/01 through 12/31). It is also my understanding that albino variations are exempt from this ruling. As a matter of fact, I am waiting on a phonecall from the local Lt. of the DFG regarding my application for the Permit to Propogate as well as a permit to capture and release native venomous species from residences and business properties. If I do it for free...I don't need a permit. But to charge for it as a service, I think I need a permit, but the Lt. is double-checking for me...(it pays to know the right people :) ).

[tom e]

Tyflier
Looks like I may have misread it.. Looks like he's talking about importation..
Does this mean I can buy it if I find a Ca. breeder?

By the way is that your Lt?

Here's the quote:
"Thomas Edwards: Lt. Liz Schwall asked me to respond to your question
regarding rubber boas, Genus Charina sp.

Fish and Game Commission regulations, Section 40 of Title 14 in the CA
Code of Regulation, prohibits the importation of any species of native
reptile or amphibian. Genus Charina is native to CA and it is illegal
to import into CA regardless of sub-species.

The only possibility of a permit being issued would be for the purpose
of scientific research by a bona fide institution.

You may contact me if you have additional questions regarding Fish and
Game laws and regulations in CA.

Phil Nelms
Law Enforcement Division"

[lefty_mussolini]

I encourage anyone doing any herping in California to use this website as a resource: http://californiaherps.com/
There is a lot of great info on there and the guy that runs the site is really nice. He gave some pointers on where to find some of the snakes and lizards that I am looking for.

As far as Rubber Boas go, this is the perfect time of year in our neck of the woods. It might be a trek for you though. The nearest place to you would be the San Bernadino Mountains.
The reason this is the perfect time of the year is that Rubber Boas are out on days that are colder than most snake species prefer. And it's been cool lately, but not cold.
I'd suggest to go to the San Bernadino Mountains and look around some of the many creeks. Flip rocks and logs. This will probably be your best bet. Right now the weather is perfect for finding them during the day.
After it starts getting hot, your best bet will be to find them at night.

[tyflier]

I don't know how strict the Game Wardens are in the San Bernardino Mts., but I know around here, if you start flipping over rocks and dead logs, you need to make sure you put them back the way you found them, or the wardens will ticket you. Plus, having 3 new streams open to year-round fishing with special regs...the Wardens are out in full force in the Eastern Sierra...just FYI...

[lefty_mussolini]

I don't know how strict the Game Wardens are in the San Bernardino Mts., but I know around here, if you start flipping over rocks and dead logs, you need to make sure you put them back the way you found them, or the wardens will ticket you. Plus, having 3 new streams open to year-round fishing with special regs...the Wardens are out in full force in the Eastern Sierra...just FYI...
Agreed... but nevermind the legal ramifications, you should ALWAYS leave the habitat the way it was when you got there.

[tyflier]

Agreed... but nevermind the legal ramifications, you should ALWAYS leave the habitat the way it was when you got there.
Yea...I guess I should have specified..."Leave No Trace" is ingrained in my psyche, and I often forget that not everyone has that...Thanks for the reminder!

[snakemom1961]

I don't think the same is true, because I have definitely seen rosy boas for sale in many pet stores in CA. Never a rubber, though...

And a CA fishing license may not be less than mailorder...at $40...it's pretty durn close ;)...but I get one every year, anyhow...

Michigans basic license is $15.00. Add a trout stamp and it's 28 dollars. Not a bad price compared to Cali.

[tyflier]

Michigans basic license is $15.00. Add a trout stamp and it's 28 dollars. Not a bad price compared to Cali.
Yea...but...it's Michigan...;). Although, you do have the Manistee and the AuSable, so...you've got THAT going for you. I don't like lakes, so the big freshwater ocean you have in your backyard does nothing for me...though I do like steelies on a fly...

I don't mind paying $40 for a fishing license, because I have plenty of year-round fishing right out my back door, and I don't need to purchase a sperate trout stamp. One license and I can target any freshwater species I want, except salmon, which I have nowhere near me, so I don't care...:D.

[snakemom1961]

LOL.. While it's true Michigan doesn't have NEAR the trout fishing streams as there are out west. Northern Michigan has the 2 you mention along with some other great fly fishing streams. Our trout stamp is also good for salmon which run the rivers in the fall. My son will be out fishing in about a week and other then work we won't see him again till probably November...LOL

[tyflier]

LOL.. While it's true Michigan doesn't have NEAR the trout fishing streams as there are out west. Northern Michigan has the 2 you mention along with some other great fly fishing streams. Our trout stamp is also good for salmon which run the rivers in the fall. My son will be out fishing in about a week and other then work we won't see him again till probably November...LOL
I was just giving you a hard time. I am well aware of the QUALITY Blue Ribbon trout streams you have, as well as the lake-run steelies and salmon runs that are scattered ALL OVER the northern part of Michigan. You guys have some amazing cold-water fisheries, and your warm-waters are pretty darn tasty, too.

I went fishing on Thursday, though. Caught loads of browns on dry flies in early March, and THAT is reeeeeaaaaaally difficult to do in northern MI...

[tom e]

So it looks like I need to spread some rep around before giving it to most of you again.
I always wondered what you guys were talking about when you post that phrase!!
:grin01:

[snakemom1961]

I was just giving you a hard time. I am well aware of the QUALITY Blue Ribbon trout streams you have, as well as the lake-run steelies and salmon runs that are scattered ALL OVER the northern part of Michigan. You guys have some amazing cold-water fisheries, and your warm-waters are pretty darn tasty, too.

I went fishing on Thursday, though. Caught loads of browns on dry flies in early March, and THAT is reeeeeaaaaaally difficult to do in northern MI...

So very true considering our trout season doesn't open till the last week in April.....LOL
But your right, We have some great Trout streams up north and I LOVE stream fishing, ain't nothing like it. All my kids do it and have learned the fine art of "trying" not to snag the logs while thier line floats downstream.

If you have TOO many fish in your freezer I could always send you my address ya know........LOL

[tom e]

The "special permission" you need in order to breed california native snake species is a rather easily obtained permit from the DFG out of the headquarters in Sacremento. The hard part is the possiblity of a "facilities inspection", and I believe there may be an examination to prove your basic husbandry and breeding skills are "up to par". The application for permit is available at the DFG website for download. It's called the "Permit for Propogation of Native California Snake Species", and I believe it is renewable on a yearly basis. A $40 fishing license is the resident price for a full year(1/01 through 12/31). It is also my understanding that albino variations are exempt from this ruling. .

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf

Here's the reg on that...
Looks like what you say is true, but ONLY with the following authorized spp..

Lampropeltis getulus californiae
Pituophis melanoleucus (deserticola, catenifer, annectens and affinis)
Lichanura trivirgata (roseofusca, and gracia)

So that's Cali Kings, Gophers (great basin, pacific, san diego and sonora), and Rosy Boas (coastal and desert) which are the subspecies that can be propogated, imported, exported, or possessed for commercial purposes. (or purchased or sold)

The "Albino" exclusion relates to other species though. "No permit is required for the possession, propagation, importation, exportation, transportation, purchase or sale of captively bred native albino reptiles or amphibians."

Sorry for this thread sorta' morphing into one that doesn't necesarily belong in this section.
I'll try to right that after sunday (when I will attempt to find a rubber boa!)

[tyflier]

So very true considering our trout season doesn't open till the last week in April.....LOL
But your right, We have some great Trout streams up north and I LOVE stream fishing, ain't nothing like it. All my kids do it and have learned the fine art of "trying" not to snag the logs while thier line floats downstream.

If you have TOO many fish in your freezer I could always send you my address ya know........LOL
Sorry...Catch & Release, only...I'm a sportsman, not a meat hunter, though I take no issue with individuals that choose to keep their fish within legal limits. Plenty o' fish for all to enjoy...

Tom E--

Yea...I've been through those regs a few times, and have even talked with local DFG wardens about them. It's not really difficult to get the permit...but you definitely need to know your stuff and be ready to prove it...

Thanks for the link, though. 'Preciate it :cheers:

[jaxom1957]

Now just to make it crazier, if I have 2 license caught rb's and they breed cause I cohabed, I am also required to turn over the babies to the state!I believe you've been misinformed. While you cannot purchase the snakes, you can receive them as a gift. Also, there is a grace period for hatchlings you produce, after which you cannot keep the snakes. You can, again, give them away. Also, the snake limit is per member of the household, so you could have two, your wife could have two, your kid could have two, etc. The one thing you cannot do is sell them. The law is the same for most indigenous wildlife, though there are specific exceptions for animals that have long standing histories of being kept as pets, such as Cali king snakes.

[tom e]

That's good to know Lee, thanks.
I wonder if anyone has a rubber boa they'd like to give me? I'd be willing to pay a "premium shipping cost"!! Plus a little extra for the deli cup... :grin01:

[susang]

I don't know about San Bernardino Mts. but I used to live in Yucca Valley/Morongo Valley, and visited as recently as 4 years ago. When I lived there I would see Rosey Boa at least 5 days out of 7, gopher at least once a week, rattlers never. Lots of other snakes racers... If you can get up one of the canyons you should have a good day herping. Stay away from Joshua Tree Nat. Monument, the rangers are hawks.