Egg Bound! D=

[_Sam_]

So I took my female Scarlet in to the vet today (as well as an abandoned Gouldian finch...poor guy), because I suspected she was impacted/constipated. She was able to go to the bathroom a little, so I tried soaking her once a day for a few days...it really didn't do too much. This bump just appeared like a week ago, just after she accidently swallowed some aspen, so that's why I thought that. Well, the vet tried soaking her again, but obviously that still didn't do any good, so they did an x-ray and found out it was an egg. However, it's too hard to try to get the yolk out with a needle. :( They're going to do a few things, with surgery as a last resort. I really hope she pulls through! She's probably really stressed out...I feel so bad, I never wold have suspected it would be an egg since she layed her 'accidental/suprise' clutch like a month or more ago. I didn't think an egg could just so suddenly appear! Please pray for her! :cry:

[_Sam_]

Good news! They didn't have to do surgery on Scarlet, and now she's back home! I'm sure she's pretty ticked off, but at least she's in her own cage now. The bill was over $200, but now that she's ok it's worth it!

[Roy Munson]

Good news! They didn't have to do surgery on Scarlet, and now she's back home! I'm sure she's pretty ticked off, but at least she's in her own cage now. The bill was over $200, but now that she's ok it's worth it!
That's great news. :) So she passed the egg herself?

[Nanci]

Excellent news! I wonder what "things" they did that worked for her...

Nanci

[_Sam_]

Well, they put her under anaesthesia (if thats how you put it) and injected some mineral oil into her...from there I guess they just sort of massaged the egg out from what I understand.

[Nanci]

Yikes!! Glad it worked...

Nanci

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Very good to hear that she is going to be fine Sam. The part that gets me is this.............
........since she layed her 'accidental/suprise' clutch like a month or more ago.
Please know that this is not a personal attack againt you. I don't understand how it could be an accident or a suprise. If people don't want or aren't prepaired to take care of a clutch of eggs this is one of the reasons they shouldn't cohabitate the animals. Even if they aren't housed together they shouldn't even be temporarily put together even during viv/bin cleaning. It would be different if you were trying to breed them as this is a variable you would have to take into consideration as these things do happen but your own words say it was an accident, in other words you weren't prepaired. I just feel that people should try to learn as much as possible before they make the decision to purchase an animal/pet. Please don't feel that I am trying to flame you because I am not. I am just trying to point out the obvious. Am I being blunt or harsh, yes. The reason I am coming off this way is because I have read so many different threads that pertain to bad husbandry skills and then the owner of the snake making a post about the situation and asking for sympathy for themselves or their snake when all of this could have been avoided. We researched for over a year everything we could find about the husbandry and care our snakes would need before we ever even purchased one. I have almost as much money tied up in the library of books we have as I do snakes. Do I know everything there is to know about snakes, no, but I did know the basics in husbandry before I purchased one and I will say I learn something new everyday. One of the very first things that you are taught is to "NOT" cohabitate and this is one of the reasons why. I am happy that your snake is fine and I feel bad for her for what she had to go through, but I have no sympathy for you allowing your snake to become pregnant when you weren't prepaired to take care of the consequences of allowing this to happen. First off your snake could have died and secondly you are now out $200.00 that I am sure you would have liked to spend on something else. Again, please understand that this is not a personal attack on you but to the ignorance that people have about their pets in not knowing how to take care of them. It seems that a lot of people buy snakes and reptiles as some sort of status symbol and never really take into consideration of the well being of that snake or reptile. One thing I will say that could be a positive about this post is the fact that others may read this and learn by others mistakes. Obviously this is just my personal opinion and I am happy that your snake will be fine. I am sorry if this seems like a harsh reply but maybe others will heed the warnings and instruction that breeders and owners before us have put into place so things like this won't happen to our snakes. J.M.O. :shrugs:
Jay :cool:

[Nanci]

One of the very first things that you are taught is to "NOT" cohabitate and this is one of the reasons why.:

Well, what actually happens is someone new joins, and talks about their two or three or four snakes that all live together in the same viv, and how they can tell the snakes love each other, because they are all cuddled together. Ok, then the cs.com residents say "oh, no, it's bad to cohabitate your snakes, here's why"- but it's not a uniform stance- someone will always reply with "oh, but make your own decision, I've cohabitated my snakes for the last 50 years and never had a problem, so you, the beginner, should not listen to the prevailing custom, but instead make your own decision, it's your right, they are your snakes!"

So many new owners obviously take the course of least resistance, and just leave their snakes together.

Nanci

[_Sam_]

When I said the clutch was 'accidental' I mean that I purchased the snake now knowing she was gravid. I was told that she had never been bred. When I discovered that she had layed eggs, I took them up to a breeder where they would be incubated. (although most of them if not all were slugs) Although I wasn't prepared for this clutch because I hadn't researched breeding (because I wasn't planning on breeding) I tried my best to provide the eggs and the mom with the best care possible.

[_Sam_]

And all of my snakes are housed in seperate cages, forgot to add that.

[_Sam_]

(gah sorry bad typo there, I meant NOT knowning, not NOW knowing lol)

[Joni Garcia]

I'm glad to hear that the vet was able to help Scarlet. :)

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

When I said the clutch was 'accidental' I mean that I purchased the snake not knowing she was gravid. I was told that she had never been bred. When I discovered that she had layed eggs, I took them up to a breeder where they would be incubated. (although most of them if not all were slugs) Although I wasn't prepared for this clutch because I hadn't researched breeding (because I wasn't planning on breeding) I tried my best to provide the eggs and the mom with the best care possible.

I did not know that you had purchased her gravid and I based my reply solely on the premise that most of the threads that pertain to yours are usually caused by bad husbandry or bad information. Like I said, I was not trying to personally attack you but the things that could and does happen when people aren't responsible enough to take the time to know what they are doing. Now based on the information you have added I would definitely say that your clutch was unexpected but was not an accident. You had no way of knowing but due to someone else's actions you could have had things turn out a lot worse. I am happy to hear your girl is going to be fine. You absolutely did what you had to do to make sure she would be ok.
Jay :cool:

[_Sam_]

I'm glad she's ok too! Seeing an empty cage in my room was really depressing, even more so since I've read of a few 'sad endings' of snakes being egg bound on this site. And I can understand being frustrated about a snake being neglected due to bad husbandry. It makes me so sad to see animals treated badly!

[MegF.]

Sometimes you have to really palpate them to feel if there's any eggs left inside. If it was way up there, it might not have been able to have been felt. I can't remember how long it had been since she laid, but as I recall, it was too soon for a double clutch.

[Spork]

Very good to hear that she is going to be fine Sam. The part that gets me is this.............

Please know that this is not a personal attack againt you. I don't understand how it could be an accident or a suprise. If people don't want or aren't prepaired to take care of a clutch of eggs this is one of the reasons they shouldn't cohabitate the animals. Even if they aren't housed together they shouldn't even be temporarily put together even during viv/bin cleaning. It would be different if you were trying to breed them as this is a variable you would have to take into consideration as these things do happen but your own words say it was an accident, in other words you weren't prepaired. I just feel that people should try to learn as much as possible before they make the decision to purchase an animal/pet. Please don't feel that I am trying to flame you because I am not. I am just trying to point out the obvious. Am I being blunt or harsh, yes. The reason I am coming off this way is because I have read so many different threads that pertain to bad husbandry skills and then the owner of the snake making a post about the situation and asking for sympathy for themselves or their snake when all of this could have been avoided. We researched for over a year everything we could find about the husbandry and care our snakes would need before we ever even purchased one. I have almost as much money tied up in the library of books we have as I do snakes. Do I know everything there is to know about snakes, no, but I did know the basics in husbandry before I purchased one and I will say I learn something new everyday. One of the very first things that you are taught is to "NOT" cohabitate and this is one of the reasons why. I am happy that your snake is fine and I feel bad for her for what she had to go through, but I have no sympathy for you allowing your snake to become pregnant when you weren't prepaired to take care of the consequences of allowing this to happen. First off your snake could have died and secondly you are now out $200.00 that I am sure you would have liked to spend on something else. Again, please understand that this is not a personal attack on you but to the ignorance that people have about their pets in not knowing how to take care of them. It seems that a lot of people buy snakes and reptiles as some sort of status symbol and never really take into consideration of the well being of that snake or reptile. One thing I will say that could be a positive about this post is the fact that others may read this and learn by others mistakes. Obviously this is just my personal opinion and I am happy that your snake will be fine. I am sorry if this seems like a harsh reply but maybe others will heed the warnings and instruction that breeders and owners before us have put into place so things like this won't happen to our snakes. J.M.O. :shrugs:
Jay :cool:
Finches lay unfertile eggs every breeding season so it may not be his fault.

[jmksnakes]

Sam: First of all, what part of Missouri are from? I've lived in MO most of my life.

Secondly, has she passed all of the stuck eggs yet? If she hasn't, I may be able to help. I went through a bad case of dystocia with my stripe snow this year... and I can share my experience with you if it'll help.

[_Sam_]

I live in Kansas City....and as far as I know there was only one egg, which the vet removed, and she just went to the bathroom today big time (from everything that was held in for awhile..what a mess haha) so I think we're all good now. But thanks! =D

[jmksnakes]

That's great! I had to deal with 7 stuck eggs... no fun! BTW, I lived in Lee's Summit and Raymore most my life. Go Chiefs!

[_Sam_]

Yeah Chiefs! I'm a loyal fan no matter what! :cool: That stinks about the 7 eggs! I bought my snake to breed, but after this, I'm kinda nervous to ever breed her...I dunno.

[rolandslf]

Hey Jay, Glad to see you eased off a bit on SAM but after that vitriolic attack
I think that after finding out all the facts an apology is in order. I also agree with you in view of the fact that too many people start out with reptiles with too little research and knowledge leading to not only heartbreak but also indirect cruelty.
Hello Nanci, I also cohabit all my male corns in one Viv, have done so for 5 years now with no problems.
Just my 02 worth.
Sorry for going off thread.

Ciao

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Hey Jay, Glad to see you eased off a bit on SAM but after that vitriolic attack
I think that after finding out all the facts an apology is in order. I also agree with you in view of the fact that too many people start out with reptiles with too little research and knowledge leading to not only heartbreak but also indirect cruelty.
Hello Nanci, I also cohabit all my male corns in one Viv, have done so for 5 years now with no problems.
Just my 02 worth.
Sorry for going off thread.

Ciao

Hey Roland,
Vitriolic (Adj.) = extremely bitter or hateful.
If you had read the whole thread you would have noticed my second post.......
I did not know that you had purchased her gravid and I based my reply solely on the premise that most of the threads that pertain to yours are usually caused by bad husbandry or bad information. Like I said, I was not trying to personally attack you but the things that could and does happen when people aren't responsible enough to take the time to know what they are doing. Now based on the information you have added I would definitely say that your clutch was unexpected but was not an accident. You had no way of knowing but due to someone else's actions you could have had things turn out a lot worse. I am happy to hear your girl is going to be fine. You absolutely did what you had to do to make sure she would be ok.

.....which states that it was not a personal attack against __SAM__. This was also stated right in the very beginning of my first post. My post was not bitter or hateful by any means. My reply was direct and to the point and I feel that no appology is necessary. Why should one have to sugar coat things for people to make them feel that what happened is alright and that everything will be ok when in fact things might have turned out a lot different for them. In the original post __SAM__ never disclosed that the snake was purchased gravid to begin with. I feel people should be able to differentiate between being personally attacked and having someone telling them actually how things are or should be. __Sam__ made the post and asked for any assistance or insight into his/her problem. Now, that person or anyone else for that matter that decided to join this thread should understand that every response may not be exactly what they thought it should be or was going to be. You hear of too many problems with peoples snakes because of ignorance or just plain not caring when most of the information you need is just a book or a click of a mouse away. Way too often people will get a snake or a reptile as a status symbol or for the shock effect when they actually have no right owning that animal because they don't know the needs of that animal. My post was made as direct and to the point as I could possibly make it so that others that read this thread may not make the same mistake. I said mistake because this was something that was out of __SAM__'s control. I will not say it was a accident because due to someones poor husbandry skills __SAM__'s snake could be dead right now. Maybe my reply was harsh and cold but situations like this need to be addressed in this manner so people will think about what they do with their snakes before the worse happens. I feel __SAM__ did a very good job in making sure that the snake was going to be fine and did everything that he/she had at their disposal to make sure would be fine and I commended him/her for that.

Now for the rest of my post.......
Hello Nanci, I also cohabit all my male corns in one Viv, have done so for 5 years now with no problems.
Just my 02 worth.
This is just my .02. I feel your husbandry skills are lax and should be changed. Again, this is just my opinion. I would never, and I am pretty sure most people here and in this hobby/industry, cohab any snake other then temporarily for breeding purposes. There are too many things that can and do go wrong. You say nothing has happened in the five years of you cohabing and I feel you are very lucky. It is people like you that make statements like this that others read and think that it is ok to do these things. Hence posts like __Sams__'s asking what they can do to help their snake because they or someone else they got the snake from cohabs. I am too worried about cannibalism and worse yet communal diseases. Say one of your males were to become sick, you can pretty much count on the rest of them being or getting sick as well. If they are all kept separately there is no chance of cannibalism and less chance of spreading anything through ones collection. I feel that people who cohab are selfish by not spending what money and time that is needed in order to make sure their snake will have as happy and healthy life as the snake can have in captivity. One snake, one bin/viv. By doing this you eliminate all sorts of things that can and do go wrong. There is not one thing you could say or do to prove or convince me that cohabing snakes is not detrimental to that animal. As stated in the beginning, THIS IS JUST MY .02 WORTH.
Jay

Oh yeah, almost forgot....... CIAO

[Corny Noob]

Well I already rep'd you for the first post, so I can't again so soon.
So, here here!

Edit: also, which is it 5 years or 3 years? As you bumped the other cohab topic saying your boys have been together for three years.

[rolandslf]

All points taken and thanks for setting the record straight, no offence taken either.
Something from my side, I recently replied to a thread where I stated that I
do not advise CO-HABITATION and named a couple reasons for the statement. It is my personal preference to house my male corns together.
As for the statement of affording the amount of vivs. for all my snakes, it must be realised that some of us try our best but with a hobby as addictive
as this it can become difficult.
Lastly, I dont know why I posted 3 years because it is definitely 5, the fact that must be noted is that whether 3 or 5 years I to date have had no problems.
As for the Ciao part, that is sort of my signature. If it rubs you the wrong way. Sorry.

Ciao

[Corny Noob]

But if you don't have the money to properly house your animals in their own enclosures you should just leave them at the breeder/pet store.
I mean look at my sig, I understand the concept of animal addictions, but I would never bring something into my house if I thought for one moment I didn't have the time or ability to give it 100% of what it deserved.
If this was any other animal than a snake I'm sure more people would feel differently.

[rolandslf]

I agree with what you say but have you seen the conditions under which some snakes are in Pet Stores. Remember I am in South Africa. I feel that
my 3 male corns although co-habiting are healthy, happier and far better off
than they were at the Pet Store.
BTW getting back to the 3/5 thing, it should read 3 Male Corns together fo 5
years.

Ciao

[rolandslf]

BTW, I rep'd both of you for the Passion you have for your Corn Snakes.
I assure you that I have the same Passion and Love for mine.

Ciao

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Well, I dont mean to get into the middle of something but I dont really get the whole black or white thing on the subject of co-habitating. There are some that do it by choice, there are some that dont, also by choice. I dont think anyone gets an animal or animals thinking they arent going to do the best they can for it or them. Every snake or indeed creature is different, just as humans are... some are fine together, some are not. For me personally there is a whole lotta gray in the co-hab thing and we shouldnt automatically put down ppl who do it. If you dont like it or dont like what another person is saying or doing.. its your personal right to say something but I do beleive that it should be done in a polite manner. Just my 2 cents.. take it for what its worth.

[Corny Noob]

Well I just don't think that in terms of advocating cohabbing, ones' argument should be that it's expensive to house snakes seperately.
Sure it may be, but if that's the case you can't really afford to have them now can you? :shrugs:


Edit: I honestly don't want to start a fight, but this whole issue of cohabitation confuses me, and no matter how often we discuss it I always seem to want to hear more on it anyway. Again, I apoligize if I'm stepping on any toes, I'm just saying it how I sees it.

[rolandslf]

I promise that this is the last comment I will make on the subject of
cohabitation. It is up to the individual to decide just as it is with most things
in life. It is the same as saying that Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder.
What is acceptable to some will never be acceptable to others.

Ciao