GAS: snake needs BAYTRIL?

[boaccman]

i got a snake who is becomming a balloon. each feeding he gets bigger and bigger. i think he is also constipated.
it clearly is gas because i can feel it when i squees. (don't know how to write squees) i tried the search forum before but it doesn't work with a three letter word as GAS. should i use baytril?
if so, how to use it in what concentration and doses?

come on you helped before and i'm sure you will do it again.:)

p.s. the snake is like 40 cm or 16 inches.

[13mur 6]

Don't use baytril just yet. It could just as well kill your snake (if it's bacteria that is partially immune to batril it can become completely immune and immune to other antibiotics as well).

My snake had a sort of gas problem before. But her gas came and went (sometimes it would be huge, sometimes it was completely gone). Usually was the biggest 3 days after a meal, and her poop looked like undigested mouse parts.

The first thing you need to do is figure out what's causing the stomach distention. To make sure it's gas, put your snake in water and see if he floats where the bulge is (that's how I figured it was gas in my snake). If not, you might need to take an X-ray to figure out what it is. If you think it IS bacterial, you need to get a bacterial culture done as soon as possible (it will tell you what strain of bacteria it is and antibiotic to use). Both the x-ray and bacteria culture will cost you, so expect to lose some money on this.

Constipation can be fairly easily corrected with a luke warm water bath. Just keep him in there till he poops, but don't keep him in there for over 30 min.

We need more info, like has the snake been regurging, what's the poop like like, and apparent discomfort, cage temps, feeding frequency, etc.

Take that snake to a vet ASAP!

-13mur 6

[boaccman]

i feed the snake like once in 5 days, the poo till now always looked good, since he's blown up very big now and hasn't pooped yet i do not know the result of the poo at the recent present. i am a 100% certain it is gas. a snake keeper (who i don't trust entirerly) told me to use baytril mixed with mineral water (no Cl Chloride).
yesterday i did put the snake in warm water, he floated allright but he also let drip a little black fluid ( as in not solid, i think it's fluid, my english is not perfect) out of his mouth. this came of his guts and i know for sure it was not blood. he did'nt poo.

the snake is kept really well. good temperature good hummidity.
mulltiple hiding places.

[CornCrazy]

It sounds as if he has a SERIOUS bowel impaction. I work for a vet and when we get animals in that have "feces" coming from their mouths, it's not a good sign! If there is an obstruction, the feces can not exit, so it eventually starts coming out of the mouth...the path of least resistance. If it's not too late, your snake may have to undergo surgery to try to save him. The vet will most likely take x-rays to see if your snake is indeed impacted and approximately where the impaction is actually located. Then your snake may be off to surgery if the impaction is operable.

If this is his problem, then you are looking at several hundred dollars (U.S. currency) for getting the snake what he needs, and then there is no guaratee that he will make it. If you don't have the money to treat him, then the best thing to do is have the vet put him down.

Please keep us posted!

[13mur 6]

I meant to say this 2 days ago but...

Okay, this snake is in serious condition. The black fluid you described sounds like blood, and I'm fairly certain it IS BLOOD. Blood from the bowels will not come out as red but a black/purplish color (I know this from experience, I lived through a caffiene overdose and spent a night throwing up blood).

I'm almost positive now that it's a bowel impaction that's caused a rupture somewhere in GI tract and the mice you've been feeding the snake have started to rot in it's stomach creating gas.

I'm hesitant to say whether your snake will make it or not. I hope you took that snake to the vet when we first told you to.

-13mur 6

[boaccman]

the snake has pood twice now. the s hi T looks perfectly normal.
the black dripping from his mouth was not blood i am pretty sure.
the dripping was right after i try to massage the bulge down and up. (don't freak out now, i did it very gentle) i am not planning to do this again since it did not have the wanted effect.
over here where i live there are not as many specialised vets.
i'm trying to find out who knows one, in the mean time i was hoping on some one who could confirm the man who recommended Baytril, or someone that knows THE ANSWER.

he Mur, thanks though

[drizzt_19]

I don't think baytril will have the desired effect..

I would have to agree with 13mur6 and say it is a blockage of the bowels..When a corn passes blood or poop through the mouth,you can be almost certain of a blockage..

What morph is your corn??

If you corn is an albino or snow you may be able to see if there is a bowel impaction,by holding the corn up to light..Kinda like you would if candeling an egg..You may be able to see the impaction..

Please get that snake to a vet as soon as possible..Keep us updated..

HTH

[CowBoyWay]

I know this from experience, I lived through a caffiene overdose and spent a night throwing up blood.

Your a wild one, aren't ya ;) LOL :D
You weren't "doing" that Starbucks coffee pure were ya? hehe

I don't know the answer to your medical question boaccman.
Here is a link to a partial list of "herp" Veterinarians in the Netherlands, perhaps this may help in your quest for a competent Snake Vet.
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/netherlands.html

By the way, your command of the English lanquage is quite good for a second lanquage practitioner, better than some people I've met actually born here (U.S.).

I'll teach you a little secret about quick word checking, Go to
www.google.com and type in the word you question the spelling of and press enter and if your remotely close the correct spelling will be displayed, it asks/it reads "Did you mean ...." and shows the correct spelling which you can then click if you wish.
Pretty handy spell checker especially if you open multiple "windows"....

"Tabs" open, in my case, as I use a Mozilla 1. point something (1.3?) browser, it's similar to a Netscape 7 type thing and can have dozens of windows/tabs open at any given time if one wants. It's a Dial up Internet connection users best buddy. It sucks that bandwidth down the pipe for ya.
It Loads the clicked links in the background, you finish reading your page, click the tab(s) and there it is, imitation (faux) broadband. That and a pop up stopper... yeehaaah! :)
whoopsey, off topic...

Welcome to the CORNSNAKES.COM Forums:

[13mur 6]

Heehee, no, more like I had to stay up for another overnighter after having one the previous one and took a few too many caffeine pills (I'm soo caffeine-phobic now, after like a cup of coffee or tea I stay away from any sort of caffeine for 2 days).

Anyway, I still stand firm in my judgement that boaccman's snake is throwing up blood. A normal vomitus looks yellow and pale, and no where near dark. You said you were massaging the area, it could have reopened scar tissue which could cause bleeding. It's almost impossible to get fecal matter comming out of the mouth unless something is seriously wrong, you said your snake IS having bowel movements, so the impaction isn't that serious, so it shouldn't be fecal matter (plus you'd get those urates too).

As I remember, at first it looked black, like coffee black, and I know I didn't have anything that dark to eat the entire day (this is after vomiting normal vomit about 2-3 times). About the 5th time, the black parts started to turn a purplish color, and this is the point where I decided I needed an emergency room visit.

Also, to dose baytril, you want to use sterile water, this goes for both oral dosing and intramuscular, or subcutaneous. Avoid sterile saline as it causes absorbtion issues (osmosis works).

If you absolutely cannot find any herp vet in your area, just take your snake to the nearest vet and get an xray done, it's better than jumping the gun and dosing baytril for no reason.

Also, it's not heMur, it's LEMUR.

-13mur 6

[13mur 6]

Oh, forgot some stuff.

On Baytril, I think the stock injectable solution comes in I think, 2.27 mg/ml dose. There are other stock solutions out there so make absolutely certain the dose otherwise you can overdose the snake. Baytril IS NEUROTOXIC. Your snake can die if it has a dose of 500% or over that of the normal dose (which gives a very forgiving amount, but remember, you want to avoid any unnecessary damage).

Your target dose for a young snake like yours is 2.27 mg/kg body weight. So assuming your snake weighs 1 kg (which I know is not true, but for argument's sake), you need to give your snake 2.27 mg of baytril, or whatever volume of stock solution that gives that dose. I would think your snake weighs more around 30-50 grams, so you'd need about 1/20th of the dose you use for a 1kg animal.

I seriously think you should avoid using mineral water. It's not sterile and sometimes the pH is not balanced (most of the time too high, in the 7.7 range). If you want ANYTHING to dilute the baytril, you MUST use STERILE water. It comes in small plastic containers of 100mls, and has a rubber top that needs to be pierced with a syringe to get to the water. Use a new container every single time to prevent cross infection and use new syringes for the same reason. What I would do is just get 1 ml of stock Baytril and inject it into a full vial of sterile water, giving you a roughly 0.227 mg/ml dose, and give a dose that's 1 ml/100grams of animal body wieght (so you'd be giving close to 0.5 ml). Again, it's up to you to do weigh your snake and the math to figure out the correct dose.

Also, you want a volume of dose that does not exceed 10% of body weight (try drinking 15lbs of water in 5 minutes assuming you weigh 150 lbs, that's a hella lot of water). I try to keep my doses very small and concentrated, 1 ml fluid for 50 grams of snake. This of course will lead to the medicine taste coming through (Baytril is pretty bitter, don't taste it though, it's toxic to humans) and your snake may not like that, but if you give the snake too much fluid, you can cause a lot of problems.

But anyway, don't listen to anyone who tells you to put non-sterile stuff into your snake unless it's food, or supplements.

Again, I don't think it's baytril you need. Do not dose baytril unless you've got results from a bacteria culture telling you to use baytril (or enrofloxacin).

13mur 6