8% weight loss too much?

[Cam5]

I have been reading the "sticky's" and several books and spoken with 3 vets. So now I am going to ask the experts...you all.

Our 3 year old male corn ate his usual 2 hoppers in April...then not at all...then had one f/t fuzzy on June 9th.

He has been treated for coccidia and roundworm...however I think after all my reading the vet most likely saw the dead egg of the parasite from the feeder mouse and not very likely it was "Stretchy's" own parasitic load... We have been treating him since May....last dose was last week.

He has lost 8% of his body weight (about)... He was 353 grams and now he is 328grams.

He is shedding monthly, and drinking and moving about, although a bit slower than usual perhaps...

I know he is probably looking for a mate, and stressed from the meds shoved down his throat every week...but no matter the cause we are very worried. :cry:

I hate to stress him out more by force feeding him. I have tried braining the f/t mice and going way down in the f/t size (down to fuzzies and pinkies).

Is there a percentile loss we can expect to be "okay"?

Thank you so very much for your time....

[Nanci]

I was told 25% by the owner of the local snake store, when I was trying to get my Eastern Hoggy to feed.

Right now none of my male snakes is eating, and all are active. Zee hasn't eaten since June 1st. It's worrying, but many of them do it.

Nanci

[Velvet]

I would say you are right, he is being "difficult" because he was looking for a mate and because of the stress of being medicated.

They can sometimes take a long time to pick up weight after going without food for a while. My big adult male stopped eating at the beginning of winter (beginning of summer in USA) and he's only just starting to eat properly and gain weight now...

[Cam5]

I was told 25% by the owner of the local snake store, when I was trying to get my Eastern Hoggy to feed.

Right now none of my male snakes is eating, and all are active. Zee hasn't eaten since June 1st. It's worrying, but many of them do it.

Nanci

Thank you so much. Wow! 25% he'd be a 4 foot noodle :rolleyes:
We all adore him, and he is our 7 year old son's pet...so there has been a lot of extra snuggles invested in his care :)

I just want to relax and enjoy him like we did before...but I guess part of the MOM job deswcription is to worry even when it has no effect on the outcome.

Godd luck to you and your boys :wavey:

[Cam5]

I would say you are right, he is being "difficult" because he was looking for a mate and because of the stress of being medicated.

They can sometimes take a long time to pick up weight after going without food for a while. My big adult male stopped eating at the beginning of winter (beginning of summer in USA) and he's only just starting to eat properly and gain weight now...

If the boys have a mate do they still go off food? Just curious...(I do not want to be irresponsible by introducing a female...) Maybe I could get him a stuffed animal snake to snuggle with :)

[snakeboy24]

if they have a mate they still go off food as they are obsessed with mating. my male corn has been off food for 4 months now, and i totally agree it is very worrying. hopefully we will all be able to get them eating again but unfortunatly that is not the case for everyone.

good luck,
hope the lil guy is ok,
lee

[Cam5]

if they have a mate they still go off food as they are obsessed with mating. my male corn has been off food for 4 months now, and i totally agree it is very worrying. hopefully we will all be able to get them eating again but unfortunatly that is not the case for everyone.

good luck,
hope the lil guy is ok,
lee

Oh dear...are some little guys too weak to start eating again?
Do you still offer food every week?

[Cam5]

By the way Lee, thank you for your reply :) And your well wishes.

[Nanci]

My first feeding strike experience was Maizey last year. He started in July or August, and went at least two months. I was freaking out and trying everything- and nothing worked- then he just started eating again and kept on eating just fine. The thing that got me so worried was everyone said it just happened in the spring, and this was pretty late in the year, but here we are, end of July, and ALL my males don't eat, and roam the vivs hoping for love...

I'd be very surprised if yours got weak. Jake started his hunger strike at 875 grams, he's at 825 now, and healthy as a horse. He refused two weeks ago, again, and last week I didn't offer- but I will tomorrow when he's had two weeks to think about it. It's scarier with a smaller snake, but he came to me out of brumation at 750ish, and porked right up to 875 in a couple months- they can really put weight back on fast, too.

Nanci

[Cam5]

Are there any "treats" to entice a corn snake?
Off hand I cannot come up with anything that I would consider safe/healthy.

(For our fat tailed gecko when she was being finicky with her crix and mealworms we tossed in a few wax worms and that was all it took for her to regain her interest in eating everything else.)

[Nanci]

Is that him now??? He isn't starving!! That is a big healthy snake!

All you can do for treats is fresh-killed, live, tuna water scented, lizard scented, Ivory soap washed, rat pup, chicken broth scented, slit the back if you don't already...

Do you have any gecko shed laying around?

Seriously, I wouldn't be worrying at all if I were you.

Nanci

[Cam5]

That photo was taken last month....it is an exteme closeup too. I will get a new one of him in he morning to post...but I guess he looks about the same to me.

Great ideas!!!!
I have tried the de-braining thing but none of the other stuff. Our geckos eat their sheds...our rankin beardie doesn't eat his but he just shed a week ago....what would you do with the sheds?

I was thinking I could pass on any potential critter to critter illnesses by rubbing the prey item an another reptile? Maybe I am too big of a worrier :shrugs:

maybe I should find a calendar of cute female corns...although that would probably make it worse :rolleyes:

Thank you so much for your encouragment.
Colleen Stretchy and the boys :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Cam5]

All you can do for treats is fresh-killed, live, tuna water scented, lizard scented, Ivory soap washed, rat pup, chicken broth scented, slit the back if you don't already...


Do you soak the f/t in the tuna, broth etc? For how long? Won't the residue from the soap make him ill?

[Nanci]

You just dunk it in the broth or whatever. For Ivory soap, that's to get the mouse smell off. So you wash it with the soap, then rinse really well. For lizard scenting, you rub the live or thawed lizard on the mouse. To use a shed, you put a tiny piece of shed on the mouse's head.

Nanci

[Cam5]

Thank you!!!!!!!
Thank you for the detailed help :crazy02:

[Cam5]

I hophave been trying to post pictures but they are "too large" and I havev no idea how to shrink them? I can re0size them in the photobucket account but I don't know how to transfer a photobucket picture to the forum...I'll keep working at it :shrugs:

Would you be able to see a spine etc? Or not until it is far too late?

We went to the store and picked up somne tuna and broth, now we just need to warm up and soak :flames:

[tracy0416]

Cam5:
That's a beautiful snake. I love that morph. It's one of my fav's. I have a baby female coming in 2 weeks form Kathy Love and I can hardly wait!

T : )

[Cam5]

Cam5:
That's a beautiful snake. I love that morph. It's one of my fav's. I have a baby female coming in 2 weeks form Kathy Love and I can hardly wait!

T : )

Thanks, we think he's pretty special too. Our son was 4 when he picked him out. I thought for sure he would have picked the "traditional" brightly colored corns. He saw this guy and said, "I love him. He is very special." And he was right :)
What is the name of his morph? We have heard everything from phantom, to stonewashed. It is so neat how his golden brown coloring is showing up as he has grown.

They sure are a lot of fun.
Take care. Have fun with your new little one :cheers:

Colleen

[tracy0416]

I believe it's a Charcoal Corn Snake.

Read up on it here:
http://www.serpenco.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16408

cheers!

[Cam5]

Thank you for the link :wavey:

Take care.
Colleen

[Nanci]

Two of my three males are off feeding strike as of this weekend- for now. I haven't tried Zee yet...Maybe yours will be ready to eat now!

Nanci

[Cam5]

I'll tell Stretchy. Maybe a little peer pressure will move him along :grin01:

OFF TOPIC...We went to the harware store and got a bunch of 21/2 inch PVC stright runs and curves etc. Our 7 year old sat down and assembled a fun "play land" that will be easy to clean and provide him more climbing and surface area in and out side of the PVC. He is housed in a 55 gallon terrarium. We set the PVC in there at about 6pm last night and he went right to investigating it. Maybe he'll work up an appetite, or at least it may take his mind off "the season" :cheers:

That website you posted is fantastic...thank you again!
Colleen and family

[desertanimal]

When my males go off food I only offer them food every two weeks, sometimes 2.5-3, depending on when I remember. Once they start eating, I go back to offering them weekly feedings. That's just me, personally.

But my adult males are eating regularly and are thinner than your boy, so as others have said, don't worry about him yet!

[Cam5]

When my males go off food I only offer them food every two weeks, sometimes 2.5-3, depending on when I remember. Once they start eating, I go back to offering them weekly feedings. That's just me, personally.

But my adult males are eating regularly and are thinner than your boy, so as others have said, don't worry about him yet!

Thank you. Great suggestion to give him a bit more time if he's really not intersted now anyway. When yours go back to feeding do you offer smaller prey items than they were taking prior or jump back in with the same size?

Thank you again!

[desertanimal]

Well I'm no expert, and my males have only refused for at most a month and a half. I didn't bump them down after that length of time, but your suggestion to do so might not be a bad idea if it's been a really long time.

However, while we're on the subject, I think you're feeding your boy prey items that are too small, anyway. If he's really 4 ft long and ~350g, I can't see why he shouldn't be eating adult mice by now. One of my guys is almost 400g and a hopper would be little more than a snack, and a fuzzy an amuse-bouche. He eats one jumbo mouse every week and a half to two weeks.

[Cam5]

I was told by the gal at the pet store that there should never be a bulge in his stomach when he is eating...that the prey item diameter should be no bigger than the diameter of his stomach.

That is why I was feeding him the 2 hoppers 1xweek. I purchased 100 weanlings right before his food strike though. Initially I thought his food strike was because the weanlings were too big.

Always something interesting between the kids and the pets :crazy02:

Thank you again!

[desertanimal]

Well, pet stores do tend to give out misinformation.

The rule of thumb espoused by people in the know here is that for cornsnakes, you should be able to see a bulge left by the food item for 24-48 hours. Longer than 48 and your prey item is too big, less than 24 and your prey item is too small. The upper limit in prey width is 1.5 times the snake's widest point.

So, next time your boy will eat, feed him a weanling. Next time he'll eat after that, feed him two. Once you get him up to larger prey items, you can actually feed him less often as a rule.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50148&highlight=Munson+plan

Here's a link to a feeding chart that gets passed around here a fair bit. The originator of this handy dandy chart also recommends skipping feedings every once in a while, and once the snakes are solidly adult (oh, let's say 300-350g) many people slow them down to feedings every 7-??? days (10, 14, it's what you feel the snake needs).

Good luck!

[Cam5]

Thank you so much for the helpful guide for feeding!
And your tack about the pet store information :)

Take care...
Thank you again!

[Cam5]

Thank you to everyone! :cheers:

Our Stretchy 3 year old male corn ate his last regular meal (3 hoppers) in April....then ate one pinky after a lot of "teasing" June 9th...

And tonight thank you to you all he chowed a weanling and a fuzzy with gusto!

The difference?
I did what you all said. I stopped putting food in there 3 times a week.
I put in a f/t fuzzy and a weanling once every 10 days and just took out the mice the next morning without checking on him 15 times and fussing.

I recently read to dip the f/t mice (can't remember who posted this to give credit) in 110* water, so I did that tonight.

We found that his temps were a bit low in the warm end about 80* at the bottom of the 55 gallon tank (although the reading I had been taking mid level was 85*).

He has been out every night for the past 4 nights at 8:00pm cruising, bathing and playing on his PVC etc. So tonight I had his mice all thawed by 8:00pm and did the hot water dip and tossed them in and Stretchy dove right in!

HE is also probably out of "breeding" season or finally just hungry enough :rolleyes:

Thank you everyone. Hopefully he has made the turn to his "regular" pattern now.
Take care :wavey: :crazy02: :wavey:

[Nanci]

Congratulations! (Zee still doesn't feel like eating, so I'm moving him to a different feeding group so I have Choco for back up so the mouse doesn't get wasted!)

Nanci

[Cam5]

I hope Zee is inspired to eat soon as well.

I wanted to add another weanling in there but was afraid he would regurgitate if he ate "too much" on his first meal back.

Do you feed your group in a differnt tank than the one in which they live? We never have. We hold him during the day and feed him (usually after 10pm) at night. I keeep reading how this will make them strike at you because they associate you with their food.

Always something.

Thank you again :wavey:

[Nanci]

Yes I feed everyone in a feeding container. It's just easier. Then while they are eating, I have time to spot clean and change everyone's water.

Nanci

[Cam5]

Should his feeding enclosure mimic the size and layout of his current "home"?
He is in a 55 gallon enclosure currently.

How long do you wait before ou place him back into his regular home?
(We avoid holding him a couple days after he eats to reduce to reguritation potential.)