Help REALLY needed, problems feeding!

[LindsayMarie]

I bought a pair of Upper keys het c, out of the egg, and received my pair on July 24th. I looked at them and said the male is a non feeder and the female has eaten before. Just by their size and looks etc. Just what I was thinking. So I tried regular f/t slit pink on 7/28 (wanted to make sure they were well adjusted). The female ate, male showed no interest, but was striking here and there, showed some signs of being a fighter. Then last night 8/1 I went to try a chicken broth scented, he looks a little weaker, struck lightly a couple times at me but freaked when I tried the mouse. I left both in over night and no luck. I have been trying to find an anole here or even a live pinky and no luck!!! What would you suggest? I dont want to lose him even though I know thats a strong possability. I dont want to force feed, nor do I even know how. Well I will wait to hear what everyone thinks. I need to find a source of anole and fast I think. Thanks, Lindsay

[Darken]

Try putting him in a small container with a f/t pinkie make sure that the container has a vented lid, keep him and the container inside of the viv, try this just before you go to bed, check in on him in the morning. We had a non feeder baby corn, that would refuse to eat, I would try to feed him every fourth day and this went on for two weeks, finally I tried this method of feeding and it worked. He may need complete non-stimulation from the outside world, I used a butter container throughly cleaned and poked some air holes in the top, put Boba and his f/t pinkie in together and the next morning no more feeder and Boba had nice bulge in his belly.

I hope this will help!

[JoannaD]

I agree witht the smalll dark container and leaving the snake with the food item overnight. Other things to try:

Wash the pink in soap and rinse it off well.
Brain the pink- poke a hole with a needle in it's skull and squish it a bit so the hatchling can smell the juices
Wash the pink and scent with any lizard (I used my crested gecko this year and it worked!).


Last year I had 4 hatchlings go months without eating and when I washed a pink one of them ate! I was shocked and very angry at myself for not knowing about that sooner!

Good Luck.

[jmksnakes]

Personally, I've had luck with washing pinks. Though I wouldn't discourage you from braining a pinkie... it's never worked for me. I of course would try it in the future though. Definetly put him in a container overnight, and make sure it's in a dark place.

If all else fails, run by your local pet shop ask them for a handful of bedding in with the rats. Put your pinkie with the bedding (in a bag or box, whatever) and shake it up a bit to make sure your pinkie smells kinda like a rat. This has worked for me, good luck.

[LindsayMarie]

Alright, I bought a tiny pinky and as much as it is killing me, I have it in with him. I have him in his container, in the dark. Question: How long do I leave the LIVE pinky in there? He has shown no interest, all he wants is to run, get away from the baby mouse :( I dont know what to do after this.....

[JoannaD]

Turn off the light, go to sleep and check on them tomorrow morning! You stand to lose nothing by leaving them in there together overnight.

[LindsayMarie]

Well live was a bust :( I left the lil live pinky in with my upper keys male for about 6 hours, in the complete dark. NOTHING, other then him (snake) hiding up in the lid of his container, petrififed. He wasnt going to go for it, he showed no interest.

Now even more depressing is the female denied her meal last night. I dont know if it is because she saw the live and wanted that, or what. At any rate I wasnt about to give her live when she accepted f/t for me when I first fed her. Live really isnt my thing. I gave the pinky to one of my large bearded dragons, it was quick, with a sqeak. :( A death for nothing!!!!!

The only thing left is anole scenting. I have 3 green anoles. Live unfortunately. I dont think I can kill them. They are captive bred up here, I was wondering if there is a way to get the spit onto a f/t pink without killing the anoles? Thanks, Lindsay

[diamondlil]

Just a thought, has the male shed yet? Perhaps he's coming up to a shed. In any case, don't lose heart, maybe wait 5 days then try a live red overnight again? I think it may be better to repeat the same process a couple of times before trying other methods, as long as the hatchling still seems healthy

[LindsayMarie]

I just dont think live is going to work with him. He freaks at any mouse in his cage, but REALLY freaked when the live one was introduced. I cant go half hour away, buy the pink, drive it home, put it in to squiggle on his/her own and start 'freezing' and dying, when I already tried live and it was a bust. Absolutely NO interest, just COMPLETE disinterest. I think its time to try ivory soap (instead of the johnsons) and/or anole. I just cant figure out how to scent a pink from a live anole. I would hate to freeze an anole to death. :( I am so upset, I doubt I will do out of the egg sales again. Half of my pair is croaking and nothing I am doing is working. I feel horrible and then I think about how I wont be able to reproduce what I was going for, Ashy/Cinder/Anery C corns *sighs*

[Tula_Montage]

Lindsay calm down! Its only been 11 days since you recieved the hatchlings! I probably wouldn't have tried to feed them more than twice in that amount of time. I would let him get freaked out by the live pink btw, I used to have a very fussy western hoggie that was petrified of live food and it REALLY annoyed her, but if you left her to deal with it with no escape the pink would always be gone in the morning.

Just give the babies peace and quite, then start to panic when its been 6 weeks and the male still hasn't eaten. You may consider buying a pinky pump or force feeding after 6 weeks.

[diamondlil]

I'd agree with Elle. I freaked myself out more watching Lil when she was a difficult feeder. Just leave the snake and pinky overnight and don't look at what's happening at all. Lil's first voluntary meal took 2 attempts at leaving with the live pink, and the first one she ate was with her over 48 hours before she ate it

[Cam5]

For what it is worth our corn did not eat for 4 weeks when we brought him home as a hatchling.
Now he's 3 years old, beautiful (but being a pain about eating during "the season").
I agreee, the more you watch the "pot" it will never "boil".

Good luck!

[cornspot]

My het c's are doing the same thing--neither has eaten (3 attempts). Tonight (attempt 3) they were offered washed pinks scented with gerbil. if that doesn't work, we may be going to the pet store for an Anole.

Mine are very small (5 grams) & very skiddish! I think live would freak them out, too.

I had a hatchlng go 10 weeks a few years ago, so i am not too worried yet, but that hatchling came out of the egg a lot bigger than these guys.

[LindsayMarie]

My male refused another attempt. The female has aten twice, refused once (so I am not worried about her). But they are a pair and I need both to make the combinations I was planning on!

This last time I tried scenting the head of the pink a little with an anole, but this was difficult as it was alive and didnt want to bite the pink. I just opened the side of the anoles mouth a little, rubbed it in a little. It didnt work! :(

He seems to very very afraid of the pinks and PETRIFIED of the one live one. I wonder if I should cut them in half, or just use the head? Has anyone had success with this method with non feeders?

I am at a loss of what to do next. I have tried almost everything. I did skip some of the less effective mthods as he looks a little skinny and small to me. Maybe I should go back, its getting to the point of what do I have to lose?

Maybe I should just lay off and try every 3-4 days and hope he makes it?

[suecornish]

Just a wild thought - blend a pinky until it's like baby food and then get an eye dropper and try to get a clob of it on his mouth and see if he tastes it. If he does just leave the blended food in a shallow lid and see if he drinks it.

[Susan]

You aren't paying the attention you should to what is being told to you. First off...CALM DOWN!

Second - Don't offer food so frequently. Your constant fussing is doing more harm than good. LEAVE HIM ALONE! I would highly suggest that you WAIT 4-5 days and then offer him another live, as small as you can find, and try leaving him ALONE with it for 24 HOURS! DON'T keep checking on him or remove the pinky until either he has eaten it or it has died on it's own. I don't care how "cruel" you may think it is. If you would rather watch your hatchling die, then go ahead and ignore my advice.

Third - If he refuses the live pinky, WAIT another 4-5 days before offering him ANYTHING else. If you haven't tried a F/T washed with Ivory soap, then do so now. LEAVE HIM ALONE with it over-night.

Fourth - If he still refuses, try a F/T pinky dipped in tuna water after waiting another 4-5 days. Again, you know what to do...leave him alone with it.

And just FYI...you don't specifically have to scent a pinky with an anole...ANY lizard will do. You have a beardie that would work perfectly. Especially if you collect his shed skin for later use instead of having to rub a pinky on him. I would lizard scent the next offering to the hatchlings if he hasn't eaten anything else yet.

And as a side note, I have at least half a clutch that has finally eaten their first meal...after their second sheds. They were offered F/T from a freshy received order and were washed with Ivory soap. You sometimes just have to be patient and not panic.

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

not much advice here but to say this : You dont have to scent with the Spit of a lizard... Pay attention to what Susan said, she said it perfectly and Use the SKIN to scent with :) Good luck :)

[Cam5]

First off...CALM DOWN!
You sometimes just have to be patient and not panic.

This should be the first reponse for everything :)

(although I admit it took a few of you reminding me of this before I was willing to accept it. As humans we like to DO which can make things worse).

Best of luck.

[suecornish]

It's just like first-time mothers - the more you fuss about the baby the fussier the baby gets.

Danu was the same. I offered her F/T every five days but she refused. She finally ate a live pinky. When I bought her she was 9 grams, when she ate she was 8 grams.

Just give you baby a change. Back up, collect your thoughts and chill, and destress. They pick up on all your stress and this causes them stress.

Susan is right. Listen to her.

[LindsayMarie]

Thank you everyone for all your advice and help. I am taking some good advice from a good breeder and I am feeling a little more optimistic. I just cant lose my little man, I would be devastated and he is the prettiest of the of the pair of upper keys :) At least in my opinion!hehe

I will try and find the only 2 pics I took of them. They were QUICK shots as to not disturb them.

[LindsayMarie]

Here is the female Upper Keys het Anery C.

[LindsayMarie]

Upper Keys het Anery C Male - trying to establish him?! So what does everyone think of them?

[suecornish]

They are beautiful. You should get some pretty babies from these two.

[Tula_Montage]

The male looks nice and fat to me just now. I don't think you need to worry about him for a while yet.

[dwyn127]

I'm just seeing this post, maybe I can help.

Last year I got a 1.1 Upper Keys het C from Rich Z's "out of the egg" sale. Every attempt to feed failed for almost 2 months until a put an anole in the viv. Both ate within minutes.

For the next 25+ feedings, I tried feeding a pinky and would come back in an hour to find the pinky still there, so I shaved a small piece of anole skin and used a toothpick to stick it in the pinky's mouth leaving a small piece sticking out. The pinky was gone within minutes. I was finally able to feed without anole skin when they were large enough to eat rat pinks and both are doing great now.

Not sure if it just took time, was the switch to rat pinks or a little of both.

Really hoping the C's they produce will be a little more cooperative.:bang:

Hope this helps, let us know!

[Cam5]

I'm just seeing this post, maybe I can help.

Last year I got a 1.1 Upper Keys het C from Rich Z's "out of the egg" sale. Every attempt to feed failed for almost 2 months until a put an anole in the viv. Both ate within minutes.

For the next 25+ feedings, I tried feeding a pinky and would come back in an hour to find the pinky still there, so I shaved a small piece of anole skin and used a toothpick to stick it in the pinky's mouth leaving a small piece sticking out. The pinky was gone within minutes. I was finally able to feed without anole skin when they were large enough to eat rat pinks and both are doing great now.

Not sure if it just took time, was the switch to rat pinks or a little of both.

Really hoping the C's they produce will be a little more cooperative.:bang:

Hope this helps, let us know!

Do you need to worry about parasites when feeding anoles?

[LindsayMarie]

This was one of my questions as well,
'Do you need to worry about parasites when feeding anoles? Though I suppose parasites is better then death, because its treatable!!!

Also did you feed them live or frozen anoles?

I cant imagine a hatcling like my little guy being able to get down one of those fast lil buggers! Not to mention they look huge compared to him.

[dwyn127]

Buy the smallest one. They're actually pretty small if you consider how thin they are. Your little man could handle a small one, they do in the wild.

I stuck them in the freezer for 24 hours then thawed them to feed. The one I shaved skin off of I would take from the freezer, shave a piece and put it back.
Started with a piece of tail, then a foot, then a leg, etc. etc................

[JustineNYC]

I just dont think live is going to work with him. He freaks at any mouse in his cage, but REALLY freaked when the live one was introduced. I cant go half hour away, buy the pink, drive it home, put it in to squiggle on his/her own and start 'freezing' and dying, when I already tried live and it was a bust. Absolutely NO interest, just COMPLETE disinterest. I think its time to try ivory soap (instead of the johnsons) and/or anole. I just cant figure out how to scent a pink from a live anole. I would hate to freeze an anole to death. :( I am so upset, I doubt I will do out of the egg sales again. Half of my pair is croaking and nothing I am doing is working. I feel horrible and then I think about how I wont be able to reproduce what I was going for, Ashy/Cinder/Anery C corns *sighs*



You offered him food too soon, and are continuing to offer too much. Your going to end up conditioning him to refuse, why should he eat when you just offer another 2 days later.


I know its hard, Ive been in that situation, but you have alot of time, to try alot of different techniques. One will work, but not if you continue to panic and offer him everyday.


I hope you listen to Susan....you got some great advice from here. I dont know whyd you post and ask for help if you were going to listen to someone else anyway. :shrugs:

[Susielea]

Just another suggestion, when you offer frozen thawed pinks try to make sure they are very warm, almost too hot as I found this worked with my non-feeders this year.
I accomplished this by dunking the pink in very hot, not quite boiling water for 5 to 10 seconds just before putting it in the hatchlings tub.
My 3 non-feeders ate on the first try and have been eating every 5 days since.

Hope this helps and good luck with the little beauties!

[Susielea]

SORRY! I meant to say you dunk the thawed pink in very hot water etc.........

[LindsayMarie]

I plan on taking in a little bit of everyones suggestions! I talked to Susan and she helped alot. So far though I have had NO luck. Tonight was pinky scented with frozen anole spit. Next time I am just going to try the whole anole. After that, back to square one, probably live mouse. I am starting to offer more often because he is looking real small and a little lethargic. In his pic he looks '10' grams heavier,lol j/k Actually that picture makes him look so much bigger then he is now at least. I will update tomorrow about tonights meal, hopefully he takes the scented pink. Thanks a bunch everyone. Lindsay

You offered him food too soon, and are continuing to offer too much. Your going to end up conditioning him to refuse, why should he eat when you just offer another 2 days later.


I know its hard, Ive been in that situation, but you have alot of time, to try alot of different techniques. One will work, but not if you continue to panic and offer him everyday.


I hope you listen to Susan....you got some great advice from here. I dont know whyd you post and ask for help if you were going to listen to someone else anyway. :shrugs:

[LindsayMarie]

Well he didnt take the anole scented pink (not even just its head). I am getting very scared over here! On wednesday I will offer the anole itself, air thawed to keep the freshness. See what happens. If not I think live pinky wil be tried again. I tried asking for a live hamster as it looks like Cathy has goodluck with hamsters and cinder hets. The store just about shunned me, saying how mean that was?! Hello, a tiny mouse, a tiny hamster, practically the same thing ethically. I have had to increase the feedng attempts as he is losing weight rather quicky. He does look way bigger in the previous picture then he really is. I love this little guy, I cant have my present die on me :( Thanks, Lindsay

[dwyn127]

You aren't paying the attention you should to what is being told to you. First off...CALM DOWN!

Second - Don't offer food so frequently. Your constant fussing is doing more harm than good. LEAVE HIM ALONE! I would highly suggest that you WAIT 4-5 days and then offer him another

If you would rather watch your hatchling die, then go ahead and ignore my advice.



I have had to increase the feedng attempts
Lindsay, read above again. Your guy is about 1 month old. Both of mine went 2 months before their 1st meal. Follow the advise you asked for.

[diamondlil]

If you offer food more frequently, the snake is more likely to refuse through stress IMO. Couldn't you just leave it for a week before offering a live red?