What about in Texas?

[AggieTiff]

I am from Texas, and I was just curious if anyone has ever come across them anywhere here. I know that the guttata gutta species have a range that covers New Jersey through Florida to Lousiana, and that the guttata emoryi species ranges as far west as Utah and south to Mexico. I just wasn't sure if anyone has actually ever come across either one of these guys here in the wild. If so, where were you at?

[CAV]

I caught a corn in Texas. I set out a snake trap and caught a creamsicle that escaped five days earlier from my rack system.

After 5 days on the run it was pretty wild , too....So I guess it was in fact "wild caught."

[bc_reptiles]

We find E. g. emoryi all over around here (Dallas/Ft. Worth). And according to Werler & Dixon - Texas Snakes, Identification, Distribution, and Natural History, there are E. g. guttata in eastern Texas with various sighting all over the state (not very pretty, kind of drab and brown).

If you don't have this book, I would suggest you get it. It's around $50.00, and hard backed and about 460 pages...worth every penny, but a little to big for a field guide!

Brian Miller
BC Reptiles

[CAV]

Brian,

I noticed that you are scheduled to be at the spring show in Irving. Is this a good show? I've never been to it, but was thinking about going.

[bc_reptiles]

Gary,

Yes, it is a good show. This will be the second one that has been put on there. The first one was last fall, it was great. This one is supposed to be even bigger, though it is only a 1 day show this time. Lots of vendors and guest speakers. Carl puts on a good, clean, captive bred only show!

Check out the link on my site for info about the show.
http://www.bcreptiles.net/html/links.html#Expos-Shows
He has a partial list of vendors and speakers.

If you come, stop by and say hi,

Brian Miller
BC Reptiles

[CAV]

Will do. I should have asked if there are any other shows that you would recommend. I know Houston is in May.

Is Princeton near D/FW?

[Gregg]

Originally posted by bc_reptiles
We find E. g. emoryi all over around here (Dallas/Ft. Worth). And according to Werler & Dixon - Texas Snakes, Identification, Distribution, and Natural History, there are E. g. guttata in eastern Texas with various sighting all over the state

(not very pretty, kind of drab and brown).

I noticed your description and wondered, "Maybe it's the newly discoved corn snake he's seeing."

Just a thought. Check it out.

http://www.naherpetology.org/detail.asp?id=1235

[CAV]

The only snake I have routinely run into in Texas has been the Agkistrodon Piscivorus. That's right, Mocassins.

I can say beyound a shadow of a doubt, that I have absolutely zero interest in conducting a field study of this species.

;)

[kevo26]

i have caught a cornsnake before in my backyard but it was a lil bit darker than a normal color snake i had a snake specialist think it out

[kevo26]

i caught corns before in east texas

[bc_reptiles]

Gregg:

That is highly possible. The book I was referring to was published in 2000.

Thanks for the info,
Brian Miller
BC Reptiles

[kevo26]

here is a pic of the one i caught

[kenalotia]

I can't be sure from this pic, but that looks like it could maybe be a juvenile black rat snake. Especially since it is wild caught; I think that black rats are much more common in Texas than corns are. Anyone else have an opinion?

[bc_reptiles]

First off, black rats are not common in Texas (they are further northeast of here). What we have here, and what you have caught is a baby Texas Rat Snake (Elaphe obsoleta lindheimerii). The head pattern gives it away and also the blotch count is to low for an Elaphe guttata emoryi (Great Plains Rat Snake).

Texas rats are great little snakes, that get pretty big and like to bite. They are quite common over the eastern 2/3 of the state.

I'm sorry that it's not a corn, but like I said. It's still a rat snake!

Brian Miller

[CAV]

Yep, Rat.

I am curious about it. What part of Texas did you find it in? How did you take it, and are you planning on releasing it or keeping it? I am interested in our native species and their conservation, so any details you can provide you be appreciated.

[kevo26]

well i live in cooper texas that is is east, east texas right buy the oklahoma border. i also plan on keeping this snake to breed to my other rat snake and this is frit time that i have caught this type of rat snake in my county.

[eddie]

were in nj are u finding corns? i live in nj and all i find are milk snakes,dk's ribbion's garters and sum water moccinsions(sorry for my spelling) i look all over and i dont find them i know there here... i been looking for at least 4 years now and i can never get any!!!! 1 day i will get him/hur and that will be the day i cnat have anymore snakes..lol....

[CornCrazy]

It's illegal to own wild caught corns in NJ. It's even illegal to own CB "normal" colored ones there, I think.

[eddie]

as for corn's your llowed to catch them and keep them,there's no permits needed for corn's only deadly snakes.

[CornCrazy]

I have a couple of rescues from New Jersey. The rescue I got them from said it is illegal to own "normal" colored ones, and it is illegal to BREED corns in New Jersey just in case you produce "normal" colored ones.

You could probably check with that rescue to get more info. It is All Species Reptile rescue. The website is: http://www.all-species-reptile-rescue.com/

You should be able to find Rachel's (the owner) e-mail info on the site.

[Elaphe_Mo]

From what I have gathered it is not just normal colored corns that aren't allowed, it is any corn that DOES NOT HAVE RED EYES. Apparantly they want it to be as simple as possible for wildlife officers to know if it is a legal animal or not...I would definitely check on this.

[michael lira]

I found this in my backyard a couple of weeks ago. My pups were barking all night at it. I had to take the snake down in case it would go for my pups. I think it's a rat snake but I'll let you decide. I got a couple more pix if you need to check them out.

[CornCrazy]

Wow! That's a big snake! Please post the other pictures of it. I'd love to see them!

[bc_reptiles]

but it looks a lot like a Pituophis of some kind. Do you have any more pics. Pics of the head would be better.

I don't know where you are located at, that would help a bunch!

"We want more info"

Thanks,
Brian Miller

[michael lira]

z

[CornCrazy]

why you had to KILL it. I know you had puppies to worry about, but couldn't you have relocated it instead of killing it?

[CAV]

I was wondering if I was reading that correctly.

[bmm]

Of course we read it correctly. Another person who is totally uneducated about reptiles taking matters into their own hands because they fear something happening, which BTW could NOT happen. And don't go ahead and say you are educated because anyone who knows anything about snakes knows a puppy is FAR to large a prey item for that snake and would most likely scare the living crap out of the snake.

Unless your puppies are mere hours old, outside without protection and no mother, this snake couldn't have even swallowed one. Go for the pups? How about he was trying to get the hell out of your yard when you violently killed him.

Its not a former pet. It was most likely a native species. Its hardly even "large" Killing certain native species in certain states is illegal and comes with a hefty fine.

bmm

P.S. Before anyone tells me to lay off this post made me ill. Someone kill for NO reason at all makes me SICK.

[bc_reptiles]

Well, I was on your side until I re-read your original post and realized that you killed the snake? Why?

From what I could tell, this is a bull snake Pituophis catenifer sayi (and a really nice looking one at that) and not a rat snake. A 5 foot bull snake isn't going to eat any puppies (unless they are a toy breed or something similar...and those shouldn't be alone outside anyway)!

People are always trying to kill snakes that get in their yards. Snakes only come in your yard for one reason, looking for food (rats, mice, etc. NOT PUPPIES). If you get rid of the rodents, you will get rid of the snakes.

The rats and mice pose more of a health problem to your puppies than any snake ever will!

One more question. How do you choose that a puppies life is more "valuable" than a harmless snakes life? This whole situation could have been handled much better. I hope if this situation happens to you again in the future, you will choose not to kill the "evil" snake.

Brian Miller
BC Reptiles

PS - Pick up a field guide at any local book store on the snakes of Texas. This way you can easily ID any future snakes in your back yard! The top two reasons that people get bit by venomous snakes is that they are trying to kill them, or they have been drinking and are just messing with them. If your not sure what the snake is...Just leave it alone!

[bc_reptiles]

for removing the picture of the "taken down" snake. That wasn't going to win you any friends around these parts.

Brian Miller

[michael lira]

i am sorry i didnt realize how bad a dead snake was around here.
it was at 4:30 in the morning, it was a school night and i was asleep through the whole thing. my dad killed it cause he knew nothing about snakes.

if i was awake i would have relocated it to a better spot.
by the way if it matters it was new born toy chihuahuas:(

:( sorry again

[bc_reptiles]

It's not that a dead snake is so bad. Lets say you find a DOR (dead on road) snake and need some help IDing it. It is when you post like you did (and I'm not attacking you); Look at this snake we just killed in our yard, what kind is it? That is when people start calling for your blood.

Like I said earlier, snakes are not going to bother your puppies much. If you feel they are, bring them inside at night or put them in crates that snakes can't get into. It is not responsible to go around eradicating all wildlife that "MIGHT" harm us or our pets.

I for one, am willing to forgive you. You just need to educate your parents about how helpful snakes are in keeping down the rodent populations. Rodents will make your dogs sicker than any snake ever will! Some people who have been "taught" to be scared of snakes their whole lives can be hard to "bring to the other side". But it is possible, I have done it to my mother-in-law, and it only took about 3 years. ;) She still doesn't like my boas, I guess I have some more work to do!

If you are interested in learning more about local herps, you might want to bring your family to the DFW Herp Society meetings. We have one this Saturday night at UTA. Check out www.dfwherp.org for more info, or email me info@bcreptiles.net.

If nothing else, you can meet up with some people in our society who live close to you, who might be able to come and get any more snakes that find their way into your yard.

Good luck with your new education mission and I hope to see you at one of our meetings. Maybe we can help you bring your parents over to the "Dark Side" :D

Brian Miller

[CornCrazy]

In the first post, Michael said (and I quote), "I found this in my backyard a couple of weeks ago. My pups were barking all night at it. I had to take the snake down in case it would go for my pups."

NOW...he says (quote again), "it was at 4:30 in the morning, it was a school night and i was asleep through the whole thing. my dad killed it cause he knew nothing about snakes."

WHICH story is right??? Either way, Michael lied in one of his stories. And I have a VERY hard time believing that newborn "toy" chihuahuas were outside in the first place. I have worked for a vet for several years, and NO ONE I know has ever put newborn puppies outside in the elements...especially toy breeds! Anyway, you would run more of a risk of a hawk or some other predatory bird getting the pups.

And one more thing that doesn't make sense with your story...NEWBORN puppies DON'T bark!!!

[bmm]

Yeah well the whole story is not only questionable, but another case of snake killers using their UNeducation to deal with a problem in the wrong way.

On a good note, your father will be happy to know the more snakes he murders the more chances he will have of a mice infestation of your property. No snakes, TONS of mice. Happens lots. But IMHO it will be this poor snakes sweet revenge.

bmm

[michael lira]

I think you all have to realize that this was a long time ago.Our pups were not as NEWBORN as some of you all think. We meant NEWBORN as in not full grown. The pups just barely learned to walk and bark. The snake was hissing at our dogs and might have easily killed the pups if it wanted to. The pups are tiny. Half toy chihuahua and half mini pinchers. As you probably know they are quite small dogs, let alone pups! As for the mix up in time and different "Quotes", that can be explain in the fact that me and my brother have both are sending each side of our story under the same log name and it may seem misleading. Sorry for the mix up. The fact is that we felt our pups were threatened, the snake was hissing very loud and were not about to take the chance of risking the snake harming our pups. We are not as compassionate about snakes as most of you are. Just recently we have started getting into snakes as we are now. Back then, we didn't know a thing about snakes except that they do not have legs or arms. The purpose of this photo and message was to identify the type of snake. We did not mean to cause an uproar in angry messages. Sorry about the mix up, the misleading story, the pictures, and any hard feelings we've caused.

[bmm]

As you are just getting into snakes I can understand your mistake BUT you need to understand that if that snake COULD eat a puppy then a puppy would have been gone BEFORE you found it hissing. Snakes dont sit there and hiss at food all night long, they find it and attempt a kill within seconds.

But all this has nothing to do with the fact that the snake is now dead because of irrational and unfounded fear.

Its nice you apologized but you really should learn more about snakes and what they can and will eat. It's not puppies.

bmm

[CornCrazy]

Just one more thing...two weeks isn't a long time ago.

It is nice that you apologized, but this whole thing still upsets me greatly!

I'm through...

[michael lira]

no one said it was two weeks ago




i am through

[CornCrazy]

Originally posted by michael lira
I found this in my backyard a couple of weeks ago. My pups were barking all night at it. I had to take the snake down in case it would go for my pups. I think it's a rat snake but I'll let you decide. I got a couple more pix if you need to check them out.
Well I thought I was through with this post...BUT...

What does "I found this in my backyard a couple of weeks ago" mean, then?

I don't wish to argue...this whole thing sickens me, and I hope you are educating yourself on native wildlife so that this doesn't happen again.

[michael lira]

do you worry about what i am doing. just worry about youself.

and no "a few weeks ago doesnt mean 2 weeks ago

[eddie]

look i know i have nothing to do with this but why dont we all just let it go.. aprently ira doesnt no jack about what shes talkign bout all she is trying to do is get everyone mad and angery and get her posts up too look important. also being that it looks like a gofer(cant spell) or bull snake u still shouldnt have killed it anyway they are harmless unless ur dogs are actully rats...ur so called toy chawawa puppies out side at 4 am.. so again thats another thing u dont know about and if they are toy puppies they definlty worth to much money to be let outside second of all we should confinscate all ur snakes and animal since u are not fit to take PROPPER CARE of them........ thats just my 2 Cents....everyone can say im wrong or agree with me or say i should be banned but ira has to delete her post/thred b/c this is absolute bull crap... thank u....

[CornCrazy]

Whatever Michael...I am definitely through with this post after this...

"Couple" means TWO...NOT a few, by the way.

And one more thing...I do worry about what people do when it comes to reptiles. There are too many people uneducated about reptiles, and when people go around killing them, it just makes things worse. I can only hope you have learned your lesson and this won't happen again. Sorry I caught you in your little half-truths/untruths and made you look bad. (sarcasm there...)

I will NOT be posting again here...PERIOD!

[michael lira]

your making it seem like i said we didnt kill it. YES my dad killed it, i never said that i didnt kill it.


i guess people educated about reptiles can still be stupid



JUST LET IT GO ALREADY

[pinatamonkey]

Originally posted by CornCrazy


"Couple" means TWO...NOT a few, by the way.


I have to take issue with this...
From www.m-w.com:

Couple:
4 : an indefinite small number : FEW <a couple of days ago>

[michael lira]

see i told her a couple means a few. thanks for clearing that issue up pinatamonkey

[eddie]

actully correct me if im wrong. just b.c it means 1 THING doenst mean its not used as a slang i can say yop i will be ther in a couple of mins... meaning 1-2 or yo give me a sec wich also means 1-2 mins look u are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u killed a snake that all it was doing was looking for shelter and maybe some mice or rats... but of course then un snake educatred ppl have to take matters into there own hands.. this is why rich,kathy, sould run for president... we can always count on flordia f*cking up again and maybe we could get lucky and maybe have one of them win.. this way anyone who does something liek this to a snake can get locked up and beaten like the poor snake was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol... i could only wish.... now commign back from fairy tale land..u still had ur socalled toy dogs out side at 4 am.. what kind of owner are u? weres the aspca when u need it!!!!!!!!!!!! u should be lucky ur not in nj i would egg ur house and tp it like the little kids do to my neigber for being a mena grumpy person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! grow up u know u did it... u cant sleep casue u think about it...lol... look all jokes and laughing aside.. just admit that u were in the wrong and swear u will never kill another snake or animal again(unless ur killing mice or pinkys for the snakes)

[eddie]

i love when ppl atlk stuff of the internet they are what u call computer tuff guys :)

[Iris]

I think we've pretty much established that this guy or his dad or his brother or whoever killed a snake and he shouldn't have.
I don't think posting any more is going to accomplish anything so let's just drop it. I think this thread is due for a locking.

PS Michael, there ARE 11 year olds (and probably younger) who browse these forums..maybe you could use a little more discretion about what kind of language you use.