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Newb Breeder FAQ #4

jazzgeek
10-16-2007, 01:49 PM
Hey all -

I'm in the midst of establishing my hatchlings, and as expected, a number of them have refused your basic pinks after two offerings.

I was wondering what everyone's "best practices" were in getting neonates established. I have a frozen anole that I plan to use for scenting the pinks for the refusniks, and was curious when you started doing the "tricks" on your babies....after three refusals? Two?

Just wondering was everyone's "plan of attack" was....

regards,
jazz

Nanci
10-16-2007, 02:02 PM
Dale, this is sort of a side note- did you read the post about the guy that bought something like 12 non-feeders, and they mostly all ate right away for him, and the way he prepares the pinks is to actually put them in boiling water, and then let them cool down just enough? He claimed it made them smell better or stronger or something. I'd never heard of that, but I remember someone else saying a way to get non feeders going was to just briefly dunk the pink in boiling water.

So maybe that's a pre-scenting step?

Nanci

jazzgeek
10-16-2007, 02:23 PM
Dale, this is sort of a side note- did you read the post about the guy that bought something like 12 non-feeders, and they mostly all ate right away for him, and the way he prepares the pinks is to actually put them in boiling water, and then let them cool down just enough? He claimed it made them smell better or stronger or something. I'd never heard of that, but I remember someone else saying a way to get non feeders going was to just briefly dunk the pink in boiling water.

So maybe that's a pre-scenting step?Well, I intended to thoroughly wash/rinse the pinks before scenting...but I'm curious if the success of the boiling water trick is due to a raised temperature or a "clean" pink.

regards,
jazz

Cat_Eyed_Lady
10-16-2007, 05:24 PM
I have gotten some of my fussy eaters to take just the washed/rinsed and reheated.... it is usually the third attempt that I will try to do the easiest 'tricks'. washed/rinsed and covered will sometimes work. If that doesnt work then the next feeding day I will try live.. after that... then the other tricks come out :) Good luck! :)

ghosthousecorns
10-16-2007, 08:30 PM
Tease feeding is the first thing I try with those that refuse frozen/thawed even after being left in a deli with the food overnight. If I can get a baby to strike at a pinky, a lot of times they will hang onto it and end up swallowing it. If this doesn't work I try live.
For some reason I didn't have great luck with the live pinkies this year, I keep a colony or two of mice around in case I need live pinkies but most of my fussy eaters took frozen eventually. I had one or two take a month or longer to start eating, just kept trying again every five days or so until they ate.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54474

El Jefe
10-17-2007, 09:00 AM
I was wondering what everyone's "best practices" were in getting neonates established.
Sell them wholesale as non-feeders :sidestep:


Here's the way I try it in the order I try to do.
F/T pink
Live pink
Cut pink
Brained pink
Washed with water pink
Washed with soap pink
Lizard scented
Lizard
Feed to kingsnake. :rolleyes:


Okay, okay...maybe I don't feed them to a kingsnake but sometimes I'd like to. I got a few right now that are on holdout for lizards and won't take anything else. Doesn't make my life easy when they are only wanting lizards and I can't catch too many. I find live pinks and cut pinks do a good number with many of the non-eaters. I cut down the back from the next to the tail. Sometimes I have success with soap...but not that often. Lizards are a pretty good trick too but I bet in WI you don't seem many. ;)

Good luck!

tyflier
10-17-2007, 11:45 AM
I haven't bred any myself yet, but I get alot of "fresh from the egg" neonates from a local breeder here who trusts that I can get them going. I pretty much follow the same steps/process as Mohrsnakes described above.

One thing I do, though, is wait. I won't feed them or even OFFER anything to eat for at least a couple weeks after I get them, which is usually about a week after hatching(total time about 3 weeks minimum from hatching to first feed). This way, I am fairly sure that they have used the majority of their yolk reserves, and they are pretty hungry.

I try to avoid feeding lizards. If I have one that is absolutely holding out, I would offer a lizard in the second month of refusing, but only one, and then it's back to scented. I won't feed a lizard more than once a month, and only to sustain them and maintain their size. I don't need one that is THAT picky. Since I am usually doing this for the shop to sell the snakes...I need to get them on to unscented pinks before they can be sold. I also don't have many options for euthanizing...I will take them home and work with them before I cull them. Afterall...these things are part of a profit margin for the shop.

So far...knock on wood...I haven't had any hold out for too long. Usually by the end of the second month, they have eaten at least 1 or 2 f/t pinks. Though...I currently have a male greyband that hasn't eaten in 3 1/2 months except for one F/T fence lizard about 2 weeks ago. But, as I am positive you are aware...I simply weigh him every week and ensure he isn't losing a lot of weight. As long as he maintains his current weight...I let him hold out as long as he wants. It's a test of stubbornness...and I am more stubborn than he is. :grin01:

Good Luck!!

Susielea
10-17-2007, 05:19 PM
Hi Jazz,
I think Nanci may have been refering to a post I made on another non-feeder thread a while ago, about dunking a defrosted pink in really hot, not quite boiling water for 5 to 10 seconds just before offering it to a stubborn hatchling.
I did this this year with 3 refusers on about their 3rd feed attempt with immediate success, although one ate over night if I remember correctly the other two ate within minutes!
I was told to try this last year with a holdout by my local reptile shop/breeder after I'd tried just about everything this site suggested i.e. braining, gutting, washing, scenting etc. I did this on the 7th feed attempt i think last year and it worked first time!
I don't know if it's because of the heat or because it increases/decreases the scent but for me it worked.

Hope this helps you some and best wishes with the little guys,

Nanci
10-17-2007, 05:24 PM
My friend that raises different hogs swears by offering a regular FT pink, wet, though, and if the snake will start drinking water from it, it will then often start eating it, too. First time I'd heard of that one.

Nanci

texastailfeathers
10-17-2007, 05:32 PM
...I remember someone else saying a way to get non feeders going was to just briefly dunk the pink in boiling water.

I believe Elle said that she can guarantee a good feeding strike out of a ball python by dunking the mouse's head in boiling water just before feeding.

In the BP case, I think it creates a nice, concentrated hot spot for the heat pits to detect. I'm not sure it would do quite as much for corns since the colubrid heat sensing mechanism isn't nearly as strong as that of a boid.

It's worth a shot though. A quick dip of just the head wouldn't make the prey hot enough to burn the snake.

Jessicat
10-18-2007, 03:25 AM
One of my Miamis from Carol still is very particular about having her pinks washed. Not sure what it is, but she loves Ivory soap.

SnakeAround
10-18-2007, 05:15 AM
Over here in Holland feeding 'boiled' (20-30 secs in just boiling water) pinks is more common. I had 2 non feeders going on them, after a couple they ate f/t. I do put them in a small cricket box with a cloth wrapped around it or for second try in a washing cloth (tied with a chord) with the boiled pinky.

I had one non feeder starting on live, then boiled then f/t...

During the period in which they do not eat yet I force fed small rat or mice legs like every 8 days, which is very easy to do after a couple of times.

I do have one non feeder left which has been put through all tricks... maybe tuna or chicken broth senting is the next thing to try...

toyah
10-18-2007, 06:32 AM
The only methods I have had any success with for feeders who won't take defrost are live, anole scenting, and offering multimammates as an alternative live source. I have tried a variety of other methods, but they are the three that I will try again, and probably in that order.

I don't wash the pinkies before anole scenting. I figure I want them to learn to associate the smell of pinky with food rather than remove it completely.

dionythicus
10-18-2007, 01:51 PM
One thing to remember when "lizard scenting" is to never use a leopard gecko for scenting. They are known to be potential carriers of crypto. Not worth the risk.

tom e
10-18-2007, 02:04 PM
I tried anole scenting, quail scenting, cat food scenting, washed and slit, etc. The only thing that worked for me (on the nonfeeders) was anole scenting. It worked for about half, the others I gave away as nonfeeders because I didn't feel up to force feeding. Also though, in case you aren't doing it (you probably are but I had to learn it..) you should leave the food with them all night and give them lot's of privacy. I used to take the pink away and give it to one of the 'trash cans' after about 30 minutes, but I had more success once I started leaving them more time.
Also I didn't notice any bonus in putting them in smaller containers to feed as I've seen recommended. I thought they were more likely to feed in containers they were used to, and in containers with some kind of hides. Some nonfeeders are nonfeeders, other nonfeeders are just nervous hungry snakes IMO.