911 help me

[cyclone]

I have a baby snow which has not eaten for me at all. Three of the four are eating great, two have eaten three pinkies, one has eaten four but one has not eaten at all. Should I put her by herself or keep her with the others? The reason I ask is I'm thinking after she digests her yolk what can they survive of off? It's been a month in a half and she is not eating. I have cut a pinkie in pcs and offered the tail, a leg, the head and the head in half but nothing. I also left her in the feeding box over night and still nothing. When they don't eat does their anti bodies break down and their immune system, can they get sick and cause infection through out my collection? What should I do, my options are to leave it alone in a seperate container? or leave it with the others so she can live out her days with them? Killing her is not an option. I'm a hobbiest, and a collector I'm in it for the love of snakes not for money.

[Snake_Plissken]

At the snake show I went to a week ago some people said that with poor feeders you can try dipping the pinkies in chicken broth or tuna water? Also heard something about putting anole skin on the pinkie? Or something to that extent.

[RavenSpirit360]

I think she should be housed in her own container at least till she starts eating regularily. Most on here will advise you against housing together at all, I will leave that decision up to you, just make sure you do a search and read through all the facts on cohabitation.
You should keep her in a small container, sandwich size is good, and try to feed her every 4-5 days till she eats. Keeping them all together and then removing them to feed causes stress on them and they will not always eat. I did that last year and lost 3 to not feeding. This year I housed them all in deli containers and they all ate. She should still be ok but you do want to get her eating soon.

[starsevol]

I don't think she should be with the others at all.
All snakes are better off in their own cages, for many reasons.
Good luck with her!

[susang]

Aside from the co-hab lecture which you should look up for yourself. Snakes can be stressed to the point of not eating because they are co-habbed. You could try putting her in her own container with appropriate temps... try feeding an anole if you have tried everything. If she eats it then try senting the pinkies with anole to get her eating. Have ou tried a live pinkie? Chicken broth on pink works well for some.

[Snake Dave]

Firstly, sorry to hear that mate, it's never nice to have to endure that.

Oh and just to add, in my opinion, it's always best to house snakes individually. So yes, especially in it's weakened, stressed state, house it seperately.

Well done for trying alternative methods, but may I offer a few more?

If you can get hold of either dirty mouse bedding, or an anole, then you can rub the pinkie against these and create a strong scent. This could induce a feeding response from the snake.

You may not like this, but you could try a live pinkie.

You can also make incisions in the mouse, along the back or by exposing the brain. Not exactly appealing, but needs be eh?

If none of these methods work, then you could try force-feeding. It's extreme and very stressful for both you and the snake, but in cases like this I wouldn't say no. Begin by holding the snake as if you were tease-feeding, leaving only its head free. Take a thin plastic/metal rod and put it to its mouth, if it doesn't open carefully pry it open, trying not to damage the teeth. Insert a small, severed pinkie head as far down the throat as possible, taking care not to damage the oesophagus. You might want to add a little water or butter to help to lubricate it. Hopefully the snake will then take it, then massage the neck for at least another few inches to get it down. Stay with the snake for another few minutes until it reaches the stomach, then carefully place it back. Make sure you keep a close eye on it for the next hour, if any regurgitation happens, you might want to consider euthanasia. Sadly, some creatures just weren't meant for this world.

I hope that helps and I offer my condolences

David

[cyclone]

thanks everyone but that hole co-habbed thing I dont agree with it. If you have a viv big enough for two then go for it. Watch them closely for a couple of hours and you will notice if they are good together or not. All the snakes I have live together or sorry are paired off with each other. It works and out of ten snakes one is not eating I dont think its the co-habbed thing. I forgot to mention something the egg she was in it had a black mold on it and her egg was leeking the hole time, I really thought it was a dead egg but when I cut it open she was still alive. So maybe she was ment to die in the egg but I caused her to come out and endure life the hard way. Well thats one theory.

[diamondlil]

Why not seperate her and see if it helps:shrugs:

[starsevol]

Cyclone, I TOTALLY disagree with you.
I had 2 snakes living together for a short time.
They got along together wonderfully.
Trouble was, the breeder missexed one.
I thought I had 2 males. I didn't.
One of my very favorite snakes became eggbound and died, because I co-habbed them.
It's my fault she's dead.

Also, before this happened, one year I housed all my hatchlings together. I did it because I had run out of deli cups and didn't feel like buying more. Never had so many non feeders in my life! Most started eating when I seperated them.

Besides, snakes don't run in herds like deer, or packs like wolves. Snakes travel alone and they travel alone in nature for a reason.

[MerlinsPop]

You asked for help and advice, and you got it. I'm not one to debate the merits of co-habbing, but I think you should at least accept that it might, just might be contributting to this one snake's unwillingness to feed. But, she's your snake and your decision.

Anyway, best of luck with her. I hope she turns around and starts to eat for you.

Oh, yeah... I co-hab with a couple million other people in my immediate vaciinity and I'm just fine. Which is not to say I wouldn't prefer for 3/4 of them or more to go away! :rofl:

[susang]

thanks everyone but that hole co-habbed thing I dont agree with it. If you have a viv big enough for two then go for it. Watch them closely for a couple of hours and you will notice if they are good together or not. All the snakes I have live together or sorry are paired off with each other. It works and out of ten snakes one is not eating I dont think its the co-habbed thing. I forgot to mention something the egg she was in it had a black mold on it and her egg was leeking the hole time, I really thought it was a dead egg but when I cut it open she was still alive. So maybe she was ment to die in the egg but I caused her to come out and endure life the hard way. Well thats one theory.

I really don't care if you co-hab or not do what you will I'm sure you know so much better then the majority on this forum. But you could do us the curtesy of following the rules:
http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51941

[Rich in KY]

Cyclone make sure you try scenting the next pink. One thing I like to do is slice the pink, then soak it in hot (about 100*F-110*F) chicken broth. I have had very good luck getting problem feeders to eat this way. Put the hatchling in the feed box first, then add the hot/warm pink. Put the box in the viv and leave overnight.

[JustineNYC]

thanks everyone but that hole co-habbed thing I dont agree with it. If you have a viv big enough for two then go for it. Watch them closely for a couple of hours and you will notice if they are good together or not. All the snakes I have live together or sorry are paired off with each other. It works and out of ten snakes one is not eating I dont think its the co-habbed thing. I forgot to mention something the egg she was in it had a black mold on it and her egg was leeking the hole time, I really thought it was a dead egg but when I cut it open she was still alive. So maybe she was ment to die in the egg but I caused her to come out and endure life the hard way. Well thats one theory.


Why did you ask for help when you were going to do what you want anyway regardless?


Id listen to people here, they know what their talking about. Not saying that you dont, but there is a reason you posted your question HERE is there not?

[dionythicus]

This summer I sold about 12 babies to a pet store who kept them all in a 35 gal tank with several hides. Out of all of them, one refused to eat for the five weeks it was there. They had all been eating f/t like monsters while I had them in separate containers at home. I took that one back, put it in a solitary container and it started eating f/t immediately. There was one other that was regurging and when I took it back and separated it the problem stopped. So it could be with this one that you have that the co-habbing is stressing it out and causing problems. While I am against co-habbing for many reasons, in this case separting this one may make a difference.

[cyclone]

Listen I am very happy you care and I like to hear each and every one of your advise, but when you tell me "in your experiances" its yours not mine. I like this site but you guys take things a little too serious. I know for a fact what sexes my pairs are, I do not put more then one male in when breeding. In my experiance when you house snakes together you breed into the snake to co exsist together. Starsevol that was just a big mess up on your part, before introducing snakes together you MUST KNOW what sex they are. She is seperated from the others and I have a pinkie in there with her. If not Ill just give her to the reptile zoo and see if they can help her.

[cyclone]

I have seperated her and I am trying that chicken broth method Ill keep you posted.

[snake5007]

Listen I am very happy you care and I like to hear each and every one of your advise, but when you tell me "in your experiances" its yours not mine. I like this site but you guys take things a little too serious. I know for a fact what sexes my pairs are, I do not put more then one male in when breeding. In my experiance when you house snakes together you breed into the snake to co exsist together. Starsevol that was just a big mess up on your part, before introducing snakes together you MUST KNOW what sex they are. She is seperated from the others and I have a pinkie in there with her. If not Ill just give her to the reptile zoo and see if they can help her.


I'd just like to ask something. If a breeder sexes a snake as a male and then sells it to you and a few months later it gets eggbound and dies, who's fault is it?


I know starsevol said it was her own fault, but for you to sit there and say it was all her fault is wrong IMO. If you had read her post properly, you would've realised that half of the blame lay with the breeder. But it just goes to show that people can be wrong and i think everyone here would prefer to help you learn that the easy way.:)

[JustineNYC]

Listen I am very happy you care and I like to hear each and every one of your advise, but when you tell me "in your experiances" its yours not mine. .


Just a question...


If you dont want to hear their experiences, why are you posting? THEY cant tell YOU about YOUR experiences, they can only tell you about theres and again that is why you are here asking for help is it not? LOL


You dont make a whole lot of sense. You said you have a corn not eating, more then one person told you theyve had corns refuse due to co habbing and go back to eating when they separated and your picking fights and now telling people they take things too seriously here. Meanwhile your post is titled "911 help me"


Is this place always this hilarious?

[susang]

This was rant/point a few weeks ago about people who ask advice and then ignore it or say they no better. I got royally slammed for it. I still have a queston Cyclone how can you manage to care for snakes when you still can't read the rules of the forum? Obviously you didn't read all the posts in response to your question. susang

[dionythicus]

Listen I am very happy you care and I like to hear each and every one of your advise, but when you tell me "in your experiances" its yours not mine. I like this site but you guys take things a little too serious. I know for a fact what sexes my pairs are, I do not put more then one male in when breeding. In my experiance when you house snakes together you breed into the snake to co exsist together. Starsevol that was just a big mess up on your part, before introducing snakes together you MUST KNOW what sex they are. She is seperated from the others and I have a pinkie in there with her. If not Ill just give her to the reptile zoo and see if they can help her.

Keeping animals IS serious. We are their caretakers. They cannot survive in captivity without us. Therefor it is in their best interest that we do what's right for them, not what's best/easiest/cheapest for us. I'm not saying I know why you choose to keep solitary animals together, but thinking you can breed them to accept communal living conditions would take hundreds, thousands or millions of years, just as it has to develop them the way they are now. It's called evolution and they developed into solitary animals for a reason. It's your choice to keep them as you see fit, but please don't belittle people or say you like to hear other's stories then say those stories don't have any relation to your situation. Why would we waste our breath trying to help you if our experiences didn't have any bearing on what you're going through? Give us a bit more respect, please. Some of us are trying to help you.

I do hope that separating her will get her eating for you, but if you get her eating, are you going to put her back in with others, if you find out that the initial problem was being in with other snakes? I wish you luck with getting her to eat and that she grows well for you. It would be a shame to lose her.

[Rich in KY]

While I do not believe that it is best to co-hab corn snakes. I do believe in many people's effort to communicate their displeasure with co-habbing, they lose sight of the issue.

Every week, many people look for help on this forum because their snake is not eating. Many helpful people offer different reasons why the snake may not be eating and different methods to help.

But as soon as the person seeking the help mentions that they have more than one snake in a viv, that becomes the focus of many people. Stress can cause a snake to not eat. And, yes, it is believed that co-habbing causes stress. But there are also environmental causes of stress, such as the temps being wrong or not enough hides and others.

For many hatchlings it can be that they do not see the pink, or whatever food prey is being offered to them, as food. That is why many people suggest scenting the prey with other things. In my experience, I have had great luck with this.

My point is, when someone has a snake that is being co-habbed that is also not eating, we should not forget that the most important thing is to get that snake to eat. If attempts to scent the prey don't work, and all other environmental stress factors are removed or corrected, then it would be a reasonable next step to move the affected snake to its own viv. But, we have too many people with snakes that won't eat, that are being housed individually, to think that co-habbing is the main reason a snake won't eat.

[starsevol]

Listen I am very happy you care and I like to hear each and every one of your advise, but when you tell me "in your experiances" its yours not mine. I like this site but you guys take things a little too serious. I know for a fact what sexes my pairs are, I do not put more then one male in when breeding. In my experiance when you house snakes together you breed into the snake to co exsist together. Starsevol that was just a big mess up on your part, before introducing snakes together you MUST KNOW what sex they are. She is seperated from the others and I have a pinkie in there with her. If not Ill just give her to the reptile zoo and see if they can help her.



FYI, I had never co-habbed adult snakes before. I didn't (and still don't) believe in it. I had a Matrix rack with 3 seperate cages containing my ball pythons. In March 2005 the heating element melted, and would have burned down my house if I had not caught it. I had to rearrange the snakes and co-hab a few until I could get another housing unit. I housed those 2 together specifically because I thought they were males. It was a VERY temporary situation.

Yes, it was my fault.
Yes, a snake DIED because of co-habbing.
But, I believe the experiance made me a better keeper, and taught me a huge lesson.
And now, I honestly think I know more than someone who purposely houses corns together, foolishly believing that her snakes will "evolve" into herd animals overnight!

[Snake Dave]

While I do not believe that it is best to co-hab corn snakes. I do believe in many people's effort to communicate their displeasure with co-habbing, they lose sight of the issue.

Every week, many people look for help on this forum because their snake is not eating. Many helpful people offer different reasons why the snake may not be eating and different methods to help.

But as soon as the person seeking the help mentions that they have more than one snake in a viv, that becomes the focus of many people. Stress can cause a snake to not eat. And, yes, it is believed that co-habbing causes stress. But there are also environmental causes of stress, such as the temps being wrong or not enough hides and others.

For many hatchlings it can be that they do not see the pink, or whatever food prey is being offered to them, as food. That is why many people suggest scenting the prey with other things. In my experience, I have had great luck with this.

My point is, when someone has a snake that is being co-habbed that is also not eating, we should not forget that the most important thing is to get that snake to eat. If attempts to scent the prey don't work, and all other environmental stress factors are removed or corrected, then it would be a reasonable next step to move the affected snake to its own viv. But, we have too many people with snakes that won't eat, that are being housed individually, to think that co-habbing is the main reason a snake won't eat.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Rich in KY again

Oh and just to add, nice one on becoming a contributor! :D

[cyclone]

Yes, it was my fault.
Yes, a snake DIED because of co-habbing.
But, I believe the experiance made me a better keeper, and taught me a huge lesson.
And now, I honestly think I know more than someone who purposely houses corns together, foolishly believing that her snakes will "evolve" into herd animals overnight!

Bravo it will always make you a better and smarter breeder. But I bet you your snakes have never been with another snake ever. All my snakes have been with each other since they were hatchlings. What I mean by that is I have raised all my snakes from hatchlings and they have been very social with each other. When I do have a problem snake I do house them seperate and I do baby them until they are better. I have seperated them and they seem to fall into a depression and not eat for months. That has taught me to be a better snake owner.

[Snake_Plissken]

As Susan mentioned you still have yet to fix your signature to conform to the rules of the forum. Why not change it when someone is considerate enough to let you know you're in violation of the rules before a moderator or someone confronts you.

On the topic:

I am glad your snakes are not eating or hurting each other, but how can you expect to stay that lucky housing solitary animals together?

[starsevol]

Yes, it was my fault.
Yes, a snake DIED because of co-habbing.
But, I believe the experiance made me a better keeper, and taught me a huge lesson.
And now, I honestly think I know more than someone who purposely houses corns together, foolishly believing that her snakes will "evolve" into herd animals overnight!

Bravo it will always make you a better and smarter breeder. But I bet you your snakes have never been with another snake ever. All my snakes have been with each other since they were hatchlings. What I mean by that is I have raised all my snakes from hatchlings and they have been very social with each other. When I do have a problem snake I do house them seperate and I do baby them until they are better. I have seperated them and they seem to fall into a depression and not eat for months. That has taught me to be a better snake owner.

My snakes are with other snakes to BREED, you know, as nature intended.
Whether your snakes are raised from hatchlings to be together or not, snakes are solitary animals in nature FOR A REASON. You will not undo millions of years of evolution by housing snakes together from hatchlings.
Are YOUR snakes being harmed by your husbandry?
Maybe not, but quite possibly they are.
Nature made them solitary animals for a reason, and I am more inclined to believe that in this case, Old Ma Nature knows more than you do.
Are MY snakes being harmed by my husbandry?
I read and throughly digested BOTH Love books, and even though I'm no snake expert, I would have to say, no.

[starsevol]

I think the question everyone wants to ask is:
If snakes are so "social" why do they avoid each other in nature when given a CHOICE?
Doesn't sound very social to me.

[Ohana]

Tough topic and one that usually gets the crowd goin'. How is your baby doing now that you separated it and are trying to feed?

[susang]

:bang: This reminds of a thread a while back where someone co-habbed and allowed the female to lay eggs in viv (which I think was a carboard box) claiming the female snake cuddled her eggs to keep them warm until hatching. Isn't it so amazing what some snakes do for people they co-hab with joy, they love their owners, they love to play with owner, they love each other. While for what 85% of us they don't do any of these things with joy and abandon, I feel so left out.
Cyclone I can also read the bleeping rules four line signature max. See when one can't follow a simple rule, can anything they do be trusted as good info. susang

[Roy Munson]

Cyclone I can also read the bleeping rules four line signature max. See when one can't follow a simple rule, can anything they do be trusted as good info. susangSince this member was unwilling to comply with the signature area rule on their own, even after being made aware of the rule, I edited it myself. The format was changed, but not the content.