Braining a mouse?

[daneale777]

I'm sorry to bother you guys with this, but I searched and searched and can't find it anywhere.
Can someone please tell me how to brain a mouse?
My 4-5 month old baby (very tiny) amel has refused to eat for over a month. I have tried many other techniques; all but braining or feeding live, basically.
Any help would be very very much appriciated by me and my baby Pixie girl!!

(The attached pic is from a couple months ago, but she is basically the same tiny size, still:cry:)

Thank you, in advance.
-Daneale

[susang]

Well, I'm not sure. I thought braining was killing the mouse or pinkie. I know many people put slits in the back to aid digestion and attract the snake.

[Tula_Montage]

I use steel feeding forceps and just stick the end through the skull and squeeze out the brain juice. Any picky eater I have ever had goes for it instantly.

[djfreebase]

No, braining is were you make a incision into the mouse skull, this helps the snakes feeding response.

[daneale777]

Thanks Susang.
I have tried the slitting to no avail, and the pinky head etc. etc.

I thought braining was something about putting a hole in the head. Ish, but I'm desperate here.

Daneale

[StaceyBaybee]

Just make holes in the pinky (the dead ones of course) or cut slits in it doesn't have to be the head anywhere will do. Do it before you defrost them if you can.

[StaceyBaybee]

Oh, sorry posted before I read you had tried slitting.

[Tula_Montage]

You can't do it before you have defrosted Stacey. Whats the point in braining a moose that can't be brained?

Defrost the pink, use a pair of scissors of feeding forceps and just poke it straight through the pinks head and squeeze out the brain juice. I have the best luck when I rub it all over the nose too...

[StaceyBaybee]

I meant about the slits, I always do it before I defrost.

[daneale777]

Thanks so much you guys! I think I got it and will probably try it tonight when I get home from my daughter's musical performance!

Sounds worse than I thought though, as far as the gross factor.

Daneale

[diamondlil]

Personally I just squish the skull so a little bit of goo shows at the nostrils........

[djfreebase]

Personally I just squish the skull so a little bit of goo shows at the nostrils........

You evil mouse squishing lady:blowhead:

[diamondlil]

You evil mouse squishing lady:blowhead:

:rofl:It's dead already! If I was poking it with scissors I'd probably infect myself with zombie-mouse-juice!

[Susan]

I have a knife set aside for braining. I've found that using something sharp and actually making a small cut in the skull is a little easier as their skull is so tiny as it is, poking a hole in it with tweezers sometimes just makes a mess of the whole head (for me anyway). And with the knife, I can also use it to cut slits and brain larger mice to help stimulate older snakes that are being just a tad stubborn.

[Cornsnake124]

just squese the head of the mouse.

[Hunter2011]

omg that sounds a little bit gross, lol

[Snake Dave]

omg that sounds a little bit gross, lol

Desperate times call for desperate measures, my friend.

I wish you the best of luck with getting your little guy to feed. :)

All the best

David

[daneale777]

Thank you all for all of your tips.
I got home late last night, so will be trying it now.
Do you all think using the pointed end of a razor blade would work?
I have to feed her the very tiniest pinks I have, so they are pretty small.

Hopefully this works (fingers crossed,) or I'm going to have to sacrifice an anole or try a live pinky (which seems pretty hard to find locally).

It's weird, because in the three (?) months I've had her, she's never refused a meal until about a month ago. I am stumped. I just hope she doesn't meet the fate of her brother I had. RIP, little guy.

She's so pretty too....

Here's a pic from about a week ago. No problem drinking, at least.
Sincerely,
Daneale:shrugs:

[djfreebase]

She's a lovely little snake, good luck with the braining its not that bad. And hope your little one eats

[daneale777]

Thanks, dj.
It's thawing as I type.

She seems to be almost "hunting" around her viv lately, even during the day, so maybe that's a good sign.

Daneale

[MerlinsPop]

If you use a razor blade, don't hold the pinky with your fingers. Use tongs. don't ask me how I know. Well, I used an Exacto Knife.

have you tried the paper lunch sack trick, too?

Good luck!

[daneale777]

It needs to be a really small bag though, right? Like a lunch bag? I don't currently have one of those. And she's not eating right now. I put her in the little petri-like container, covered with a towel back in the viv. It's been 45 min. already.

:shrugs:
-Daneale

[Rich in KY]

Daneale give her a little more time. Sometimes when they stop feeding, they need extra time to feel comfortable. If possible, keep her in the feeding container, in her viv overnight.

[MerlinsPop]

Daneale give her a little more time. Sometimes when they stop feeding, they need extra time to feel comfortable. If possible, keep her in the feeding container, in her viv overnight.
And don't peek! The little container works for a lot of people. My one little thing just didn't like that and I read about paper bags, so I tried it. I've had to use one 3 times in her life so far, and it worked twice.

If she doesn't eat over night (knocking on wood that she does), you might try the bag trick in 3 or 4 days. Be sure to fold it down and tape it shut. Mine escaped once. Still no idea how, as the tape was still on.

[daneale777]

Thanks again.
I'm going to leave her in there overnight with the debrained, slitted tiny pinky. Hopefully she'll get bored enough, or at least sick of being next to it, to just eat it.

All your help and encouragement means a lot to me.

-Daneale

[SnakesRule1234]

You said you haven't tried live yet. I would do that first, it's way easier than braining.

[daneale777]

Hey SnakesRule.

Yeah. She's in the viv with the mouse, "grounded" overnight.

If this doesn't work, I'm going to have to try live. I'll have to call around and hopefully find somewhere that has a really tiny one, though.

The idea of feeding live upsets me a bit though, but my wonderful boyfriend said he would do it if need be.

If it comes down to it, I'll order the tools online to make a "pinky milkshake" and force feed her, if I have to.

Hopefully, I won't have to do any of this.
If she could just get one meal, or even a head down, I wouldn't worry as much........

-Daneale

[Rich in KY]

Before you even think about force feeding, you need to try scenting a pink with chicken broth, or tuna water, or anole scent.

I had luck recently getting one of mine to eat using a pink head. It is gross to luck at but was well worth it.

I know Bruce had good luck using the paper bag trick.

Keep us updated.

[SnakesRule1234]

The idea of feeding live upsets me a bit though, but my wonderful boyfriend said he would do it if need be.

Not to be harsh on you, but then WHY are you owning a snake if you can't feed live? It's a part of snake keeping, you have to deal with it. Some snakes just are picky and ONLY feed on live whatever you do.

And before you even think of force feeding, try something like scenting or putting a pinkie in chicken broth. Force feeding is a last resort, and only professionals should do it with experience. You can always get her to a vet to check for parasities. Have you done that yet?

Also, you would be suprised at how big a prey item a baby snake can take. Don't worry.

[daneale777]

Before you even think about force feeding, you need to try scenting a pink with chicken broth, or tuna water, or anole scent.

I had luck recently getting one of mine to eat using a pink head. It is gross to luck at but was well worth it.

I know Bruce had good luck using the paper bag trick.

Keep us updated.

She didn't eat.........
I did try scenting with tuna.
And I did try the pink head.

...........
Still trying to decide what to try next.......

Thanks Rich.

-Daneale

[Rich in KY]

Daneale many of us have experienced this before. Don't lose hope. If one thing doesn't work try the next. Your lil snake is hungry. It just needs to realize that the pink is food.

Is you have tried tuna and feeding it only the head, I would suggest scenting with chicken broth next. Make a few slits on the back of the pink. Heat the broth to 100*+. Soak the pink in it for a minute or so. Then drop it in with the snake.

Make sure you are waiting 3 days between each feed attempt.

Also, you can combine using chicken broth with the paper bag trick if you can get the paper bags.

[daneale777]

Thank you, as always Rich.
I think I'll try just the head in chicken broth, in the bag next.

She's still so tiny, just the head seems to make more sense at this point.

In three days or so.

Good plan.....


And thanks for the encouragement.
My other two snakes, one the same age and one a month older are getting bigger and bigger so fast. One of them is actually eating two pretty darn large pinkies about every five days.

-Daneale

[Hunter2011]

Thanks david for the..hope lol, and yeah Im getting a girl, from KAthy Love this wednesday, so she said that she is and excelent eater for her, so hopefully all goes well (fingers crossed) :)

[daneale777]

Thanks david for the..hope lol, and yeah Im getting a girl, from KAthy Love this wednesday, so she said that she is and excelent eater for her, so hopefully all goes well (fingers crossed) :)

????????????????????

[diamondlil]

You said she was feeding ok, then stopped? Any changes at all at that time?

[daneale777]

You said she was feeding ok, then stopped? Any changes at all at that time?

Hey Diamond.
Yeah, she was feeding okay for about two months. It's been about five weeks, I believe, since she ate. I'd know more precisely, but my records from that time, somehow got lost. That bad Murphy guy again, I suspect.

And no; there have been no changes, at all.

Thanks for asking.

Sincerely,
Daneale

[diamondlil]

I don't know if you've done this already, but my first suggestion is to check and recheck the viv temps. Stop handling except for putting in the deli for feeding attempts 5 days or so apart. Tape paper around the viv to give the snake complete seclusion.
Before anything else, I'd say try a live red (day-old pink). Any time you attempt a feeding, leave the snake in it's deli in it's viv overnight with no checking at all. If the live pink isn't eaten in the morning, leave it in the deli all the next day, again without checking. (If it's still not eaten after this, freeze it, and try another live one 5 days later).
A lot of people have also had success with washing a pink in ivory soap. Weirdly enough, Lil used to need her live pinks washed before she'd eat them!
Fingers crossed for you. (The reason I'm suggesting other things before trying tuna or chicken broth is because we're not talking about a hatchling that's never eaten, but one which has stopped for some reason, but others may well disagree)

[daneale777]

I don't know if you've done this already, but my first suggestion is to check and recheck the viv temps. Stop handling except for putting in the deli for feeding attempts 5 days or so apart. Tape paper around the viv to give the snake complete seclusion.
Before anything else, I'd say try a live red (day-old pink). Any time you attempt a feeding, leave the snake in it's deli in it's viv overnight with no checking at all. If the live pink isn't eaten in the morning, leave it in the deli all the next day, again without checking. (If it's still not eaten after this, freeze it, and try another live one 5 days later).
A lot of people have also had success with washing a pink in ivory soap. Weirdly enough, Lil used to need her live pinks washed before she'd eat them!
Fingers crossed for you. (The reason I'm suggesting other things before trying tuna or chicken broth is because we're not talking about a hatchling that's never eaten, but one which has stopped for some reason, but others may well disagree)

Diamond, that is so funny.
I was just coming online to ask if anyone thought that "overhandling" might be the problem, and you had already answered it. That really makes me think it may be the answer. My daughter and I take her out pretty much every day and hold her for at least a few minutes. I've been doing that even more lately to make sure she's alright. That may be something new.......Hmmmmmm.

Also, does it make more sense to use a live pinky, rather than a live anole? The anole, I figured we could keep as a pet if she didn't want it. I don't want mice as pets; but it looks like you're saying I could just freeze it, if she doesn't go for it. Am I correct?

Thank you! Thank you!

-Daneale

[diamondlil]

Crikey, yep, no handling at all is what I'd suggest. I think with a live anole there'd be a risk of it biting her too, so a live red would be safer IMO :)

[diamondlil]

And yep, any non-eaten pinks can be fast-frozen. You could 'flick the top of the pink's head if you want to kill it before freezing, but they die very fast in the freezer on the fast-freeze setting

[daneale777]

Thank you Diamond for your very valuable advice. I believe I shall be scouring the local pet stores in the next few days for a live pink.

By the way, my two bigger, but basically same age as the little one just woofed down a pretty large pinky each, so at least they're still doing great, thank Buddha.


Sincerely,
Daneale

[diamondlil]

No guarantees, but I'll hope your little one is back on track soon.

[daneale777]

Thank you again, Diamond.
And thank you everyone else who have written in such helpful advice.

I will keep you all updated.

Sincerely,
Daneale

[wade]

No body has mentioned this but sometimes they shut down in the winter even though they haven't been cold. The shorter days set them off. Several years ago I had a similar situation and Don Soderberg suggested that I brumate the baby. I did but only for about a month. At least during that month the metabolism was slowed down it help the baby go without food. When I warmed him up in the "spring" he was hungry and ready to be a snake again. It worked for me.

Right now he is basically starving. In brumation that process stops or at least slows way down.

Just a thought

[daneale777]

No body has mentioned this but sometimes they shut down in the winter even though they haven't been cold. The shorter days set them off. Several years ago I had a similar situation and Don Soderberg suggested that I brumate the baby. I did but only for about a month. At least during that month the metabolism was slowed down it help the baby go without food. When I warmed him up in the "spring" he was hungry and ready to be a snake again. It worked for me.

Right now he is basically starving. In brumation that process stops or at least slows way down.

Just a thought

Interesting idea there, Wade.
I'll certainly give it some thought.

Does anyone happen to know how long a little baby like this can actually (theoretically, of course) survive for without eating?

Thanks,
Daneale

[wade]

I've had adults go for a really long time. A little baby like yours (I'm guessing) might go three or four months. But you reach a point where it starts to loose body weight and bone structure and then there is no return.

That was part of Don's thinking was that by starting the brumation process you stop that. In the wild late hatch babies might go into brumation without having had their first meal.

[chuck1289]

You can't do it before you have defrosted Stacey. Whats the point in braining a moose that can't be brained?

Defrost the pink, use a pair of scissors of feeding forceps and just poke it straight through the pinks head and squeeze out the brain juice. I have the best luck when I rub it all over the nose too...

Man i would hate to brain a moose ;) Good luck with your snake!! He/She looks great.

[daneale777]

I regret to have to tell you guys that our little sweet baby, Pixie did pass away on Monday night between 8:30 and 9:30pm.


Thanks to everyone who tried so hard to help us.
My 9 yr. old daughter will be having a snake funeral for her in our front yard, (which has almost turned into the pet cemetery over the many years of her trying to rescue birds and bugs and such.)

I think next time (Murphy, please stay away,) I will try live feeding much sooner and possibly even brumating, if need be.



RIP our little Pixie Baby.:cry:

Sincerely,
Daneale

[Rich in KY]

I am so sorry for your loss :awcrap:

R.I.P. Pixie

[daneale777]

I am so sorry for your loss :awcrap:

R.I.P. Pixie

Thank you so very much, Rich.
I really kind of wonder about the genes they came from. I had the brother (an anery) who died within ten days of having them both.

But, thanks.

Sincerely,
Daneale

[Cornsnake124]

I am sorry for your loss.:sobstory::(:awcrap::cry:

[diamondlil]

So sorry for your loss. I hope your little girl feels better after the snake funeral. Please pass on good wishes to her.

[daneale777]

I am sorry for your loss.:sobstory::(:awcrap::cry:

So sorry for your loss. I hope your little girl feels better after the snake funeral. Please pass on good wishes to her.

Thanks, both of you.
I'll show this to my daughter when she seems to be feeling up to it.

Sincerely,
Daneale