Im pretty much a newbie to snakes and need some advice!

My stepdaughter bought a carolina corn last year for VERY good exam results....she has wanted one for ages. Her carolina is FAB, feeding well and is very well socialised as she has been handled loads from the beginning. When feeding she 'takes' food very gently from the tongs and is generally a pleasure to have. She loves being handled and can be passed from person to person without any apparant upset at all.
However, my stepson decided he wanted a corn for his birthday in February so we took him and got him an anery, after much consideration and talks with him. His anery corn (havent had it sexed yet) is sooo much different from his sister's carolina. It attacks its food (which kind of makes us gittery when we put a hand in to get it out!) and is generally very skittish when being handled. We are sure that more handling will sort most of these things out but the thing that puzzles us the most is that it poo's when it is being handled. Not everytime but the majority of the time we end up with a poop in our hands if we handle it? We always wait at least 2 days after feeding to handle it and if it has not returned to a normal size we do wait longer.
Just wondering if this is normal? The other snake is sooo placid and willing to be handled it has kind of disappointed our stepson that he has one that appears not to like being picked up at all. My stepdaughter is trying to handle it as often as she handles hers but it isnt making any difference.
Any ideas??
Michelle.

First of all, welcome to the forum!

Snakes differ in their personalities almost as much as humans do. So whilst one snake is docile and placid as your stepdaughter's is, others won't necessarily follow that example! :grin01:

Nearly all hatchlings are skittish to begin with, and generally don't like to be handled. At a young age, you'll want to keep handling to a minimum (about 5-10 minutes, 3 times a week). I understand that you want the anery to be docile too, but it takes time. Overhandling can cause a whole host of problems. So as the snake grows up it'll become calmer and will accept being handled on a more regular basis.

Aggressiveness at feeding time is generally a good thing! That means that you're likely to have a good feeder, which means that it'll grow more rapidly. Check out the Munson Plan in this link: http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50106&highlight=Munson+Plan For a good regular feeding schedule.

Lastly, defacating whilst being handled is relatively common, as the handling process obviously unnerves the snake, so they defacate in an attempt to 'be free'. Also, handling stimulates the muscles in that area, and can cause the contents to be expelled. :grin01:
Like with many other animals, should a baby be constipated, the mother will lick the anus in an attempt to stimulate the muscles and cause them to contract, hence causing defacation.

Again, this is something that will subside over time. In the mean time, you could only handle after the snake has done a poo, or handle over a bin. You can usually tell if a snake hasn't poo'd or is about to, because there's a big bulge right before the cloaca.

All the best and I hope that helps

David

Thanks Snake Dave!
We know from the breeder that the stepdaughters snake is a really good example for a first snake....she must just be happy!
Just wanted to know if the anery was displaying normal tendancies and as you say they are completely normal (which is what we suspected anyway) just wanted to make sure. Will make sure that said stepson doesnt over do it with the handling (he gets it out for 5 mins after school about 4 days a week so thats okay) and we will just persevere.
I suppose having such a nice corn for the first snake isnt such a good thing when you decide to get more because it kinda lulls you into a false sense of security?!! We love them both anyway and i am sure that we will crack it eventually.
Thanks again.
Michelle.

A very lukewarm bath at the start of handling will also help release the poo in the tub and not in your hands or the clothing or the floor or the.... I would just put a very tiny bit in a sink or tub and let the critter swim. Leave part of the sink/tub dry, so that the poor thing doesn't panic totally. Also if you do this watch any openings.. like the overflow or the facuet so they don't try to get out through those. My big guy was really bad about it, but I no longer worry about it. He hasn't had a bath in a year or so.

the advice normally given for the poo problem is to not put it down after it poos. They can come to "learn" that if they poo on you they get what they want - to be left alone. And so they do it. When the snake poos on you, continue to hold it while you clean yourself up, if you can, or give it to someone else. It will help if the corn realizes he won't get his way, and hopefully the problem will subside over time. Well, that's what I get from the anecdotes here anyway, can't say I've ever had to deal with it myself.

It's a good thing he strikes his food, corns know the difference between food and humans so this won't be a problem. In fact, as your other snake grows she will likely come to start striking too, it takes a while with some corns (though there are some who never strike). I have a violent feeder who has never bit me, even when I wiggle my finger in front of him saying "look! I'm a mouse!"

In the future, make sure to pick out corns who are relaxed but alert as hatchlings over good looks. It's true they all have personalities, though there is still plenty of time for your anery to mellow out as he grows older.

v_various said:

the advice normally given for the poo problem is to not put it down after it poos. They can come to "learn" that if they poo on you they get what they want - to be left alone. And so they do it. When the snake poos on you, continue to hold it while you clean yourself up, if you can, or give it to someone else. It will help if the corn realizes he won't get his way, and hopefully the problem will subside over time. Well, that's what I get from the anecdotes here anyway, can't say I've ever had to deal with it myself.

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Sorry, we are not dealing with dogs or cats here. The size of a snake's brain is very, very limited. I'm not convinced that they can learn that kind of association. A dog yes, a cat yes, a horse yes.. but a snake, I highly doubt it.

as I said, it comes from anecdotes. I've read enough threads with the poo problem that stopped after the owners stopped putting it down after getting pooed on that I think it has some merit. While I know snakes are pretty dumb (that's why I put quotations around "learn"), I do think they can figure out action a = reaction b after enough time. FinFang has "learned" that when I fill a cup with hot water and place it beside his tank (the first step to feeding day, before I even go to the freezer to get mice) it's almost food time, he comes out of his hide and just *watches* that cup like a hawk. I don't get that reaction when I place anything else beside his tank, like a cup of juice for example. Much in the same way I've read snakes have been known to get less nippy if you feed them in a different feeding bin, they stop associating something-in-the-viv with food. Not to say all snakes fed in their viv will nip, but it's one of the things you can try if they are.

In the end, I think there is enough evidence to warrant trying it, and it can't hurt so why not.

My anery, Norwood, was a 'pooper' because his former owner would put him away when he got pooped on. It took a couple of months with a big wad of tissues to hand and an old towel over my lap to break the habit, now Norwood handles just like the other adults without the pooping mess.

Or is it a just a concidence that they got over the pooping problem with more handling? I'm not convinced that my guy stopped pooping because he knew he was going to get a bath prior to it. He stopped because he simply got handled more because I wasn't worried about being pooped on any more. Just my take on my pooper, who quit pooping.

could be, snake behavior is hard to pin down. I think both our opinions could be right, and there is no way to know to know for sure (I'm no expert anyway). But since not letting the snake "get his way" doesn't hurt anything, it's worth trying to break such a gross habit. I know I'd be trying everything if I started getting pooped on.

As it is, I like the water method for my largest corn. Two days after he eats, 15 minutes of being handled, and then maybe 5 minutes in the sink is all it takes to get him to go. I can even move him over the toilet when his muscles start contracting, I hardly ever have to clean his tank anymore. That doesn't work for my other two though.

Weebonilass said:

Sorry, we are not dealing with dogs or cats here. The size of a snake's brain is very, very limited. I'm not convinced that they can learn that kind of association. A dog yes, a cat yes, a horse yes.. but a snake, I highly doubt it.

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I don't think its the fact that snakes have small brains. A snake can be taught my things. I have 4 snakes. One snake loves to stare at my face and tries to investigate my face every time I pick him up. I have another one that does not like to be held by anyone else but me. I have no problem picking him up and holding him. But when I give him to someone else hes just a wreck. I think they can associate. Snakes are not given the chance to perform like dogs or cats, or even horses. And I have trained all four. It takes time and work to get what you want. Maybe since you "highly doubt it" you have not given the time or patience needed to train one.